442much

I received an email from a member who received an inquiry from the OCA president. Apparently a fellow had his car confiscated by police because when he was asked to show his licence and registration he took the key out of his 78 Delta to unlock the glove box and the car kept running. Police said it was a safety problem. The fellow says that Oldsmobile's from the 70's did this.


My 2001 Pontiac van did this, my 76 442 does not. Removing the key without having to turn the car off...is it by design or flaw? Thoughts?

nsnarsk65cutlass

Worn ignition key and lock cylinder=ability to remove key in the on position.

MDchanic

It's common over 100,000 miles.

I never use a key on my car - I leave it "unlocked" with the key out, and just turn it on and off.

I've had other GM cars with the column-mounted switch that did the same thing.

It's definitely not supposed to be that way, though.

- Eric

jaunty75

I could pull the key out of the ignition on my '73 Custom Cruiser when I owned it, and I can pull the key out of the ignition on my '67 Delta 88, and both stay running. I'll have to remember not to do this in front of a policeman.

But I can see the safety issue. With the key out, how do you stop the engine? In the case of the '73, which has the column-mounted ignition switch with the ears, you could probably turn the ears (I never tried). But the '67 has a dash-mounted switch, and the only thing you turn is the key. I don't know if you could insert something flat like a screwdriver or letter opener into the key slot and turn it back to the off position.


In fact, in the column-mounted switch, the whole idea is to insert the key and turn the ears, not the key. That takes the torque off the key and lessens the chance that it will get bent over time or break off in the slot.





Of course, my 2014 Mazda doesn't use a key, anyway, and more and more cars seem to be adopting this. I just push a button.

oldcutlass

There were some years that were made so you can do this. I don't understand how they can confiscate his car for this. Theres more to this story.

MDchanic

You definitely can - I do it all the time. If you turn it all the way back to "Lock," though, you need the key to start the car again.


+1. That's a load of BS.

- Eric

redoldsman

Obviously the cop thought the car was hot wired since it would run with no key.

MDchanic

What's the difference if you've got a license, registration, and insurance card, and the car has not been reported stolen?

- Eric

redoldsman

Wasn't the guy getting his registration out of the glove box which would mean the cop had not seen it. Just because a car has not been reported as stolen doesn't mean it is not stolen. I am just making a guess.

RandyS

What about when they run the plate and it comes back to match the guy's license? I call BS too.......

MDchanic

Yes, but once he sees it, of course, he knows that the car is not stolen.

You don't haul somebody in for stealing a car without even looking at the paperwork.

- Eric

Fun71

Yeah, that's a crock. It's no business of anyone how I turn on and turn off the engine in my car. I can wire a toggle switch to accomplish the same thing as the key does. Confiscation of personal property by the police without a CRIMINAL act by the owner is unconstitutional.

442much

In my opinion, if the story is as it was presented, then the cop should not have impounded the car. Give the guy a warning and time to have it fixed and be done with it. But then we have to ask, why was the car stopped in the first place? Perhaps there is more to the story that we don't know?
So what I get from this is that the engine running while the key is removed is a worn part and not by design. I'll pass that info along. Thanks all.

chrisneu68olds

My '71 did this ages ago due to a worn key. If I pulled hard enough, I could probably do the same thing today, just prefer to not try.

Or the cop was 23 and had never seen this before. Probably was confused on where to put gas in too...behind the license plate dummy...

Koda

Wow, an ignorant, abusive cop? Who'da thunk it?

MDchanic

Right, but as Allan pointed out, there are plenty of cars running around today that don't even have a key - Are they illegal, too?

- Eric

BangScreech4-4-2

I've owned several Jeep Cherokees and Grand Cherokees (1992-2002) and they ALL had this handy feature. The only other vehicle I've had that would release the key without shutting off the engine was my '64 Cutlass.

rustyroger

Some Vauxhall (GM UK) models in the '60s were designed so the car could be started with or without the key as the driver wished.
Not the same as being unable to turn off the engine in a hurry though, which I think is why the cop acted as he did.
Whether or not his actions were appropriate is another matter. We need all the facts behind this story before making any judgements.

Roger.

bccan

For the last 35 years the first thing I do w/ a freshly acquired GM column ignition car is pull & wiggle the key until I can pull it out w/ car running, even when they had remote trunk release.

Convenience & flexibility, just like the hundreds of thousands(+) of new cars with "keyless" ignition.

Despite what would be my desire to stick it up the douche cop's *** the best thing might be to call & ask to meet w/ a supervisor or possibly chief & discuss the situation. If you know any cops or car friendly cops in that dept I would touch base there first.

I would be interested to see the statute that covers the situation & have them explain how it contrasts w/ keyless ignition.

MDchanic

The '78 Delta in question has an ignition switch like the one that Allan illustrated, with the two "wings" on either side of the key, so there is no question about whether it could be turned off if necessary.

Also, the OP says that the person in question removed the key from the switch, where it had been residing, in order to unlock the glove compartment, so he was not driving without the key in place.

None of this makes any sense.

- Eric

Destructor

If some in America have their way all our old cars will be confiscated.

twintracks

First Gen. Rivieras were that way, too. It was right there in the owner's manual. A lot of early 60's GMs were that way. The theory was that you could give your car to the valet parking attendant, but keep your keys. That was the 1960s when I guess the valet did not need to lock your car.
I can pull the keys from my '68 Toronado in any position, but I think the switch is just worn. It has already lead to a dead battery when serviced, and the tech pulled the key with the switch in the ACC position.

rocketraider

Safety had nothing to do with it. If the car stayed running, in cop-think that says the driver can drive off.

Just wondering if that might have been in Virginia, because our antique plates are the only ones in the state that are subject to on-the-spot confiscation and impoundment if a cop deems a car licensed as such is unsafe to operate. Keep in mind something as simple as a burned out lamp can trigger this chain of events...

And the legislator who spawned this mess has the nerve to wonder why I called him useless and disingenuous.

BangScreech4-4-2

Yeah, but he would need to shut it off, wouldn't he? Or was it supposed to sit in the lot idling the whole time you were in the restaurant? Gas wasn't THAT cheap back then.

442much

Actually in was in British Columbia and the cop was young. I wonder if there is more here that we haven't heard. There are three sides to every story; your side, my side and the truth. I got stopped once by cops for no good reason...they asked if I would show them my car. One asked if I wanted to sell it. Ha ha. I said "No" and still didn't get a ticket. :-)

oldcutlass

I could of sworn way back when, that by design, it was a convenience option built into the lock to allow key removal so as to open the trunk or glove box and leave the engine running. I have not been able to find anything maybe someone has a description or brochure?

redoldsman

I can remember some Chevrolets from the 50's (my brothers 54 comes to mind) that were designed where you could take the key out of the switch in the run position. You could then turn it to off and shut the car off. You could then start the car again without the key. My 54 Olds is not like that.

young olds

My 62 nova if the ignition was not in the lock position you could turn on and start the car without the key. Used to drive it around without keys

BangScreech4-4-2

That's right! My '64 Cutlass did that too -- I'd forgotten!

droldsmorland

Citizen abuse! And a general A hole cop. Id be Royally PO'ed. Id be in jail right along with my car as I would have resisted. Especially if you think your gonna tow my car for that reason! If in fact that's the whole story which I doubt??? A cop will generally not be like that unless provoked. Though there's always exception to that rule.
All my 68s do this by lack of design. Anything with a key on the dash should do this(Im sure there may be exceptions). As I remember it all cars did this until 69 when the key was moved to the column as part of big brother movin in on the auto industry. Of all the cars my Dad and I have owned from the 50s to 68 all did this. Fords Chevys Olds Mopar. Only one I cant remember was the 66 Toro. The key was to the lower right but I think it to was removable when running as well.

BangScreech4-4-2

Not true! My '68 Camaro wouldn't do it. Nor would my '67 Delta 88, my '65 Dynamic 88, my '68 442, my '63 Bel Air, my '67 Nova, my '67 Firebird ... actually only two cars would either start with no key or allow you to remove the key while the engine ran -- my '64 Cutlass and my ''64 Impala. The Impala was probably just from wear, but the Olds seemed to be designed that way.

BlackGold

Every engineer knows that today's bugs are tomorrow's features. It's just a question of how you document them.

RocketDevo

British Columbia's motor vehicle laws are Police State like. The incident may have included one of these violations. FYI in B.C. if you are travelling more than 40KPH over the speed limit they take your car on the spot for 7 days. If you take to long to overtake and pass someone, tailgate, any tire come off the road (motorcycle) and spinning the tires among other things. It goes up to 30 day and 60 day for subsequent violations. Just another way how they soak us anyway they can. I am flabbergasted they are getting away with it!

jaunty75

I have a '67 Delta as well. I looked in the owner's manual, and it specifically says that the key cannot be removed when the ignition switch is in the ON position. I tried to pull mine out when it is in the ON position, and I couldn't. I was wrong in my post above. It was only my '73 where I could pull the key out, and I'm sure that was due to wear and not the way it was designed.

droldsmorland

I guess everything I saw was worn out as I've also observed column tumblers allow for key removal while running, though not a prevalent as dash mount switches. I rather like the fact I can pull the key while its running.

rustyroger

So was it an over zealous cop, normal for law enforcement in that part of the world, or was some other offense committed we haven't been told about?.
Being able to pull keys from worn locks is nothing new, did the car concerned have a worn lock, or was it designed for the key to be pulled while it was still running?.
What year and model car is it?.

Roger.

MDchanic

In his first post, he said it was a '78 Delta. They're not designed to do that. It was a worn cylinder.

- Eric