costpenn

And before anyone comes rushing to their defense with the usual "just be glad/thankful/content that anyone is bothering to make this stuff", remember no one is giving these items away - it is a for profit business - so why not make it right?

Bought the reproduction accelerator pedal from TPP. They advertise it as being exactly correct - unlike the others on the marketplace. Yes, it is closer in size, but when I compared it with my original, two differences:

1) On the raised ribs, the OE pedal has kind of a "pebble" finish - kind of like a aggregate pool deck. The exact repo - smooth.

2) The gap between the upper and lower groups of ribs on the repo is visibly smaller than the OE.

Decided to use my original one. Got the finish very close to OE by painting again with the Duplicolor black bumper paint, then "ghosting" it with the Krylon Black Camoflague paint.

Bought the dual gate shift indicator lens from TPP. My original was on the fence of being able to reuse (in my opinion, about 85% of a NOS one - it is the one on the left in the pic below)

On the repo part, the size looks good, metal foil on top is very close, but WHY would you do the Park & Lock, and shift position lettering in a font, size and location not even close to the OE style? Again, decided to go with my original. Will try to return both pieces, but I am sure there will be some kind of problem.

With charging so much for these items (lens is 29.00!) what is so frustrating is that these differences are so easy to fix when the part is being designed/reverse engineered. The injection mold changes required would have been a piece of cake on the Acc. pedal, and the different die cut placement and letter design for the indicator lens would have been easier. If the issue is that these repos are intended to work for a variety of vehicles/manufacturers then state so. I always used to think that the NOS obsessed crowd was over the top, now I understand the reason people pay the big bucks for quality used or NOS items.

stevengerard

I still think NOS crowd is crazy but I do agree with you that many of these items could be much closer if not exact reproductions. The font issue drives me crazy, you see it on lots of stuff.

Overall I wonder what the pricing difference would be if they made items closer to original. As you mention most of these repo parts are not cheap to begin with and have a limited market anyway. I'd say 80% of us would pay 20% more to get an exact part - so what's the risk, not sure if the producers even know what the pain point is for consumers as it comes to pricing product vs amount sold - I'm guessing they have a better idea than i do though.

oldcutlass

We feel you pain and agree. If you can't do it right, don't do it.

Olds442redberet

I agree with costpenn. There's no reason for the repo stuff to be such utter trash if they're going to charge us so much for it.

rcktdoc

If they can reproduce it which is 99% of the battle WHY not make It CORRECT?
That is my biggest gripe.

Greg

Hairy Olds

Well I do the best I can with what I make.
To address the font differences, In some cases the font is not available anymore and has to be made or some people just choose a current font and call it close enough.

There are small time people making reproduction parts such as Walt with the 65 to 67 tailpipes and head pipes and 400 big block oil level indicators and tubes that are deadnuts on. Show them you want their parts and I would think more good stuff would be made. Mike Sedlik is another one to check out. Patton Glade,Mike Richards.Curt Anderson. Never heard a bad word about their customer service.

costpenn

Everything I have received from you and Patton has been excellent. It is the the stuff coming from the "big" Resto parts houses that I'm referring to.

Also, my issue I had with the incorrect 406768 cam (was a commonly available 402194 in the box) from Supercars Unlimited was really disappointing. This one most people would not catch unless they have a cam profile analyzer sitting around at home.

AzChevs

I have understood from years ago that all reproductions of anything is by law, suppose to be at least 20% difference. I can see that in the thickness of metal, drain hole locations on floor pans and the wheel lips on repop quarter which are too wide or tail panel mounting is not enough to reach. Now, when GM was desperate for money, they sold the rights to use their logo on some repop stuff. So some people try selling that junk as NOS, nope.

Hairy Olds

When you have a person like Patton doing working for you you're lucky he really cares and takes pride in his product.

z11375ss

A Chinaman has NEVER owned a Musclecar. Period.

costpenn

Maybe, but it is the responsibility of the U. S. business that sent that part offshore to be made to make sure it fits, looks, and functions as the OE part did - especially if it being marketed as a restoration part. If TPP chooses to accept and resell a substandard part, they are are more at fault than anyone else.

anthonyP

I agree. Purchased two sets of aftermarket fenders from Keystone - what a waste of money. Keystone would not even take them back. The top of both passenger fenders were over a 1/2 too wide and the driver side radiator support mount areas were over 1" off center. This was after the sales person swore they were exact duplicates - when questioned about the dimensions and mounts - of the originals.

auto_editor

Actually, in the case of Chinese parts it stems from the fact that no company can be more than 50% not Chinese and do business there, so every car company that wants to make and sell cars in China has to enter into at least a 50/50 business arrangement.

One of the (mostly bad) "fruits" of this "partnership" is that the Chinese half demands the ability to make a majority of the parts "it" is using on home turf, so GM or anyone has to give them the rights to make the parts themselves.

[Smell that cookin'? Bet you do...]

Guess what the agreement DOESN'T say. Yup. Chinese-made GM parts don't have to STAY in China once they're made. In fact, a HUGE majority of them are built SPECIFICALLY for export.

And since US GM and China GM are such good friends, neither (ha!) party has to disclose the source of the part, even if you buy it from a US dealership or the company directly.

SO, theoretically, EVERY PART YOU BUY AT A U.S. DEALER CAN BE CHINESE.

It will come in a GM bag with a GM part number and be treated as if it's "OEM" because, technically, it is.

Same goes for newly-made models. They are just as likely to use a Chinese part on the assembly line as a Canadian or Mexican one. When the Monroney reads "Sources...4% China", they NEVER tell you what that exactly means. Apart from the engine and transmission, they don't have to tell you the source of ANYTHING.

And that's what's so tricky. Here's a non-Olds example I just ran into:

I got a 2001 (rhymes with Infiniti QX4) that had one low-beam headlamp out. Come to find it's a real-deal, electrocution-special HID Xenon whatzits. Dealer price for the "XENON HIGH INTENSITY DISCHARGE CAPSULE D2R"? $249. Yes, $TWOFREAKINGHUNDREDFORTYNINE! Repair shop's (Chinese) equivalent? $135. O'Reilly bargain-basement (who-knows-from-where)? $99.

Using all my cunning as an automotive journalist, I basically called the dealership and "conned" them into telling me from where they got their "capsules". Turns out they use Philips bulbs. Looked those up on Amazon, and got a PAIR of them--with shipping--for less than $100.

[And those weren't just bulbs that worked. They were OEM. Like REAL, LITERAL OEM!]

SO, the moral of the story is this: Remember when you bought that $9 toaster at Walmart? Chances are pretty good that some of the steel in it used to be an ACTUAL, MADE-in-the-USA car part that was "recycled" because nobody loves "junkyards" anymore.

And because God loves irony, the crappy Chinese part you have to buy now because all the real ones were shipped to (and smelted in) China to make fake ones that don't work is just as likely being LABELED "OEM GM" whether or not you bought it at the dealership, thinking it was American- (or Canadian- or Mexican-) made.

[Anyone remember when they used to put those little gold oval "Made in China" stickers on everything? Good times...]

66-3X2 442

They can't have it both ways. Walt's oil indicator & tube are perfect BUT,did you see see the pissing and bitching about the price here on this site. Everybody wants perfect repo parts for cheap. It cost money investing in making & stocking parts.

dc2x4drvr

x2

Octania

Well, I am glad that the Long Oil Fill Tubes are in reproduction. It was a real pain to make them, and then folks wanted to pay $30 for 'em.

Oldskeeper

I reproduce the STARFIRE aluminum panels for the 61,62 and 63 model year.
I strive to make these parts to the best of my ability and have shelves of " not good enough to sell" pieces.
In the several years that I have been doing this I'm almost at the point where my tooling costs are almost paid off. What a relief to see daylight at the end of a long tunnel and know it is not the light of a train heading towards me!
I also buy parts from suppliers for my cars and can't say that I have received any parts that I wouldn't use on them.
Steve
JASWEST

costpenn

My original point on this thread was at the point you have all the major things done (dimensional, material) there is no significant "additional cost" to get it the last bit correct, unless it is just plain lack of attention to detail. On the two examples I listed on this thread, the additional cost to get the gas pedal dimpling or the right font and size lettering are next to nothing compared to all the other developmental costs. So, in the above to cases, (and countless others I have seen) the part being more expensive won't solve the problem - it's already high enough.

66-3X2 442

My point is that if a part is made correctly,guys still moan & groan about price and that's a fact.

oldcutlass

I helped a friend install all new repop trim on his Chevelle SS. As bad as some of the original trim can be, the repop trim was a lot worse. It was bowed, the fasteners were crap, didn't line up correctly, the paint wasn't correct and the bends were all wrong. I agree the people who contract for and sell this stuff should be responsible for the QC of these parts but they don't, most customers just make it work the best they can. The small percentage that complain return it and get refunds and try somewhere else.

costpenn

Some people will moan & groan if it is free, with free shipping. In my buisness, I have actually had people complain about a free sample sent to them that they themselves requested.

66-3X2 442

I have a saying,if cost is a problem,find another hobby. You can bowl for cheap after midnight. I completely understand some guys don't have the coin to have the car of their dreams but as you know,it's a very expensive hobby. I do not fault anybody for wanting a car and do it as economically as possible. Just as in the other thread about the possible decline in the price/value of our cars,isn't that what everybody wants? I see the guys who gripe about B-J/MECUM auction cars bringing big $$$$ but when it comes time to sell their cars,it's a different story. The same guy wants to buy a rare restored car for cheap. The car auctions are responsible for the price increase of every rusted POS of a car sitting in a field though. I don't know how many times I've heard the 'I saw one on B-J sell for big $$$$' so mine is worth big $$$$$$$. I've been involved with cars my whole life,drag racing,street cars and muscle cars. I've seen the highs,the lows and the in between. If you restore a car CORRECTLY and unless it's rare and commands big $$$ when sold,you better be prepared to either own it or lose $$$. How many times has a guy restored a car and it not be worth what it will bring?,happens all of the time. I was not referring to you specifically ,just a general statement about the conversation.

Oldskeeper

I looked at the pedal and the shifter plate, the shifter plate is wrong and might be for a different console. The pedal is missing the pattern that shows on the original, unless you are looking for concours and turning your car into a museum piece I would have used the original. Question, how do you know that GM didn't change design or purchase this part from a tier 1 jobbing shop during production or from one of the other GM car plants?
I have several 63 full size 98s and they differ in chrome design pieces and other parts depending on production number or plant of manufacture.

costpenn

I am going to use both original pieces, since the repos are inaccurate, and my originals are still relatively close to my standard of reusing if, after restoring, the piece looks about 95% as nice as a non shelf wear NOS item would look (in my humble judgement, my original shift lens is more like 80%, and the pedal is about 90%)

As far as the running change or multiple vendor thing, you would think if there were variances in the OE part the reproducer would note that in the description of the item. I am not saying to not offer the part if it isn't perfect, but when TPP states that their gas pedal is an exact match to the original, and not like their competitors part, you might think some homework had been done to verify the accuracy of the claim.

Another example from my last car completed is the repo M/T battery tube. Ordered one from Fusick. Came in and tried to install on a 72 455 A body - it would not work. Looked in my PIM, and found that Olds had two different P/N's for this piece depending if it is a 350 or 455. The repo piece is made to the SBO spec. I had to drill through the spot welds on the two brackets and reverse their relation to each other and reassemble with nuts and bolts to make it work. Called Fusick and they said they had been having trouble with that piece and that I was not the first, but they still have not changed their cataloging of this item. Again, all that would have to be done to make both versions correctly is at the end when the tube clamp bracket and the block bracket are being welded together is to have 25% of the lot tacked together one way(for the SBO), and on the other 75% turn one bracket 180 deg. and then tack. No huge cost increases, no crazy proliferation of part numbers.

nsnarsk65cutlass

That's a bold statement,as it stands. I'm not sticking up for the poor quailty crap that's sold as repo.How many high dollar restorations have these junk parts on them that go unoticed?