Not for you to say. I think a lot do but not the ones living without the quality we enjoyed. If you never had a fine wine you don't know what your missing!

 

Of course it's for me to say - who's going to be in the hobby in 20 years? Several folks like me, because I likely will outlive the Boomers, but not many others.

Cars are so great right now that there's little reason for most people to go to Olds except for some niche-y folks.

 

Why are you here then. Seems you have moved on.

 

Are you the arbiter of memberships at Classic Oldsmobile?

AFAIK, I'm allows to discuss things here in a civil manner. This thread is about the state of the hobby, so I reckon I'm allowed to give my unsubstantiated two cents - sorry it offends you.

 

To me "Classic American" means a body on frame rwd V8 car, there will only be less available as time goes by, and when there are only a few left they will have a rarity value.
I bet you couldn't give a Model T Ford away in the '30s, how much is one worth now?.
Having said that, I bet the total cost of a good example (storage being the biggest cost I'd wager) is more than the value of the car.
Our cars will never be our pension fund, and a modern car will run rings around older ones in every objective dynamic, but we drive them because they are what they are, maybe a nostalgia trip, maybe for the posing value or whatever.
If classic car prices are going down it makes the hobby more affordable, in a free market they will stabilise at what the market will bear.


Roger.

 

I agree 100% . Not offended at all.

 

There are two distinct subjects at play here. The economics of supply and demand and the passion for collecting old cars.
I too would throw out the prices being seen for the super rare, limited production muscle cars, exotics, and full classics, but for a different reason. I think there is a percentage of people who are both car lovers, and sick of trying to beat Wall Street in the financial market. Others are investors who have turned to old cars after the housing market crumbled. Throw those sales out of the equation, but if you own a W car, congrats! And yes I know, some people with deep pockets are not in it for the investment potential. They belong in category with the true collectors of old cars, regardless of potential future gains or losses.
The handwriting is on the wall, and in Hemming's as to where average prices for average old cars is headed. Every 4th ad says "Selling due to age" or "due to illness".
Are lower prices bad for the hobby? I don't think so. Bad for car investors? Sure, maybe.
I think there will always be enough pure old car nuts to preserve the cars that are out there, if you separate it from investing.
I'm in the "car nut" camp, but have had financial investment analysis training.
If I sold all of my cars in the next year, I would loose money on every one of them, whether I bought it, or built it. Except for maybe the rust-free '66 Toronado that I saved from the crusher for $500.
The cars we love get rarer by the year for lots of other reasons, too. Floods, fires, accidents, rust, overseas sales, and the crushing out of salvage yards, and hoards, to name a few.
Just some random thoughts from a lifetime car lover, and yes I could be wrong...

 

This.

 

I love muscle cars, driving muscle cars, building muscle cars, and talking muscle cars. When I go to a show, nobody looks like me. Everyone is old and retired. Which isnt a bad thing, but I dont relate to them. Im 38 and know very few people my age with these old cars.

I also think the restoration hobby is going to tank. The reason Muscle Cars became big in the 80s was the gas crunch, the resulting shitty cars that came along, and guys that wanted "their old car back". Horsepower numbers tanked and Muscle became a way to get back what Detroit didnt make anymore. Since the mid 80s horsepower has been going up. I love Fox Body Mustangs but Id be stupid to "restore" one when a new Mustang makes 3x the power and looks 3x better.

In 1990 a 1970 Chevelle was only 20 years old. The resto market was already gonzo for them. There is ZERO restoration parts for or people wanting to restore 1995 cars, which are now 20 years old.

 

Hopefully, with the slew of classic car restoration shows out now, it will bring about interest in classic Era and muscle cars. I didn't really gain an interest in cars at all until i was about 19 or 20 stationed in hawaii and I realized how much more rare they are outside of California. To most people my age (mid to early 20's) classic and old are synonymous and most would rather buy and drive a primus or something g else lame because of the fuel economy for the same price they could pick up a restored condition classic car. There's just soemthing not right with 90% of my generation.

 

The same conversation applies to all things baby-boomer, not just cars. Baseball cards have tanked largely because older people have gotten out of their collections and they are not significant to the next generation. My 7 year old boy loves baseball but he has no idea who Mickey Mantle is. Lionel trains are another item that will face major price pressure in coming years as baby boomers retire and downsize and sell off stuff that takes up a lot of space.

The guys in their 50's, 60's and 70's are the ones who grew up with this stuff and have the vast majority of the disposable income. It is inevitable that 60's and 70's muscle cars will be less interesting to millennials and the generation behind them.

Gen X'ers were the last kids to ride in the back of of a custom cruiser facing backward (my grandmother had 3 in a row) or in the passenger seat of my other grandmother's Delta 88 couple, which had doors that weighed as much as a honda civic. Cars that had big engines and lots of buttons to press and were simple yet interactive in a different kind of way. Modern cars are more like a big computer and I think that it will be harder to kids to appreciate old cars, and cars in general, as they grow up because they will not have experienced them in the moment as we did.

After all, the main reason you see someone plump down a retarded sum for a car at the BJ auction you are are referencing above is because he wants to be transported into his youth. If nothing else, the old car hobby is a way to relive some a feeling you had in a simpler time in your life and to feel young for a moment. People pay a lot for that feeling...

 

Back in the late 70's early 80's you could not give a muscle car away, no one wanted anything with a big block. Between the poor fuel economy and high insurance rates they were virtually sale proof. The only people buying the 1960's and older cars were us kids, as we could buy damn near anything for $500 or less and parts were readily available at wrecking yards. It was a win win time for anyone that could turn a wrench.

 

The best way to get a 20 year old in a muscle car is to hide their iPhone in the glove box. lol If it doesn't have a computer, most of them aren't interested! The boomers will be selling off their old cars, more cars for sale, with less buyers, means lower prices. IMHO

 

It depends, in california, if it's 1975 or older, then it's pre smog, which is a huge draw in for me.

 

TK is right; shows are full of old, retired, fat and bald white men. A lot of these guys are great people, with good stories, but they're not me. Even the guys I work with, and I work at a freaking car company, only a few are gearheads of any kind. I had to explain how part time AWD works to one of my bosses a few weeks back, geez.

It will evolve. 20 years ago, the model As were strong, the 50s cars were gold, the muscle was noticeable, and the 80s cars were ignored. Now, the model As are weak, the 50s cars are strong, the muscle is gold, the 80s cars are getting stronger, and the 90s cars are ignored. 20 years from now, the model As will be gone, the 50s will be weak, muscle will still be around, the 80s will dominate, the 90s and 00s will be growing, and the 2010 cars will be ignored. It seems to follow by about 20-30 years, which is precisely the gap between being a kid/teenager, and finally getting some disposable income after having kids.

But, the HP slump from 73-93 stagnated it a bit. Muscle is still around because that period sucked enough to not replace it. Muscle might get a quick decline once 2000s performance starts to become popular in about another ten years. The only wild card is those cars' survivability, and by that I mean electronics. 90s Corvettes are really hurting for engine sensors now, at least you can keep a carb car on the road yourself.

 

My dad has tons of stories about cars he knew for sale or bought for hadly nothing. The one from that period that he kept is a 58 Corvette, which he bought in 1976, the year I was born. He paid 1,400 dollars for it.

The restoration market for Vettes and Muscle Cars came to be in the early to mid 80s. Year One started in 1981. Al Knoch was a small shop in Garden City MI that I went to with my old man to get Vette interior pieces. Popular & Performance Car Review (Muscle Car Review) hit the stands. The restoration part of the hobby started in the 80s when these cars were not that old.

We are not seeing that now with cars 20-30 years old. If the Muscle Car market goes away the restoration side will go with it.

 

From reading this thread is sounds like I need to start saving now so I can fill up my garage in about 15 years for dirt cheap!

 

Not a bad idea, lol. I could never sell my jetstar 88, but that's l purely based on sentiment, it was my grandpa's. If I did get rid of it, it would go to my parents.

 

Another point, the need to restore muscle cars stemmed from them being used and abused in the 70s. Street Machines, street freaks, and drag racing consumed a lot of them. Today Mustangs, Vettes, and Camaros do not get used for that type of thing. Most of them sit in garages because the typical new buyer of said cars are in their 40s. So there will be no need to fix them up because they wont need it.

 

Well, i guess I'll have to start driving like Elwood Blues. How often does a vehicle need to be restored twice? Before my grandfather started his work, it had been restored sometime about 20 years ago.

 

It happens. My old mans 58 Corvette is on its second paint job.

 

Maybe we need to get our kids/grandkids into car restoration to keep it alive as a hobby. When I g3t the chance, me and my dad will be pouring time and money into my project and my son will be there doing whatever a 7 year old can do, even if it's sitting in the driver's seat and looking cool.

 

These were the good old days for a wrench head. You had to live it
to understand. All you had to do was drive around and look for flat tires,
and just how long has that sticker been out? Knock on the door, do the deal.
I took auto shop in high school for my junior and senior year and it served me well. I STILL haven't bought a brand new one, losing 5K after signing and
driving off the lot in a new car, just no...

I will admit that I bought this current 66 out of passion.
If I wasn't able to borrow on it, I wouldn't have bought it.
Over-inflated prices? I dunno, depends on what it is I suppose.
That and none of us that grew up with them is getting any younger.
I am going to stay optimistic however, enjoy it for now and see how
things will be going for the economy after December 2016, good Lord willing.
To be quite honest, things seem to be picking up around here and hopefully
it will for the rest of the country. If that happens, happy days for all.

 

Are you ready to have an aneurysm? They donn't even offer metal or autoshop at most high schools, they choose to close them down and renovate the buildings at my school for our girl's dance and theater programs. The only school that had autoshop was the pregnant mom/criminal/super senior high school campus.

 

The biggest problem facing the Oldsmobile hobby is the fact that the heart of the hobby hasn't changed in 35+ years. It's been the pre-1973 A-body cars pretty much ever since those cars were produced. Yes, the other eras and styles of Oldsmobiles have their loyal, devoted followings, too, but not at the scale the Cutlasses do.

Now that Oldsmobile is gone, we've seen everything Oldsmobile will ever produce, and nothing since the early '70s cars looks like it will ever take the place of these classic-era Cutlasses.

With these cars and the people who remember them when they were new aging, the size of the hobby down the road can only shrink. Yes, there will always be younger people here and there in the coming years who will appreciate them, and we still hear on this site from time to time from young people getting a classic-era Cutlass because they inherited it from their grandmother or something, but these numbers won't keep up with the rate at which the older people "age out" of the hobby.

What will happen to their cars? Who knows. As some have noted, as these older hobbyists die off or whatever and their cars go on the market, that could depress prices and bring new people into the hobby. But the cars themselves get older every day, and the cost to restore them will only continue to rise as the supply of restorable cars and parts with which to restore them slowly dries up. People with no personal memories or attachment to these cars will not want to spend their money in this way.

 

This is true and sad at the same time. We all are going
to have to adjust to the "Throw away society" that has been created
that we now live in, unfortunately. Things have changed
so much over the years. I remember my Mother and Grandmother
had places to stock away used pie tins, margarine cups and bowls
with their lids, used egg cartons for fresh eggs and other whatnot.
They grew up in the era that was "Well we can use this again somewhere."
Not necessarily a bad thing, that helped me to be a more conservative person.

 

I grew up relatively poor and with that same mindset, so my wife calls me a hoarder, j guess it might be true, but at least she regulates what I keep and what gets thrown away. I wish we lived in a small mom and pop business society instead of corporate giants ruling the world with poorly made products from other countries. Will anyone ever think to themselves, "maybe I should restore this 45 year old prius..." I doubt it.

 

Read alternative high school. A major reason for this countries high unemployment is we train kids to be students and not for a career. Kids are taught they must get an education and you get it from college. Things like welding and pipefitting are now dirty jobs that require using your hands. And we all know hands dont require any education.

Therefore kids dont know that they can make a ton of money by wielding a welding torch.

Thats not to say autobody is a huge industry, its not. Its getting smaller because cars dont have much metal and the metal they have is morphing into Aluminum. And those panels are designed to be replaced.

Guys that know how to bump, weld and shape are aging out too.

 

This applies to cars like Oldsmobiles, Buicks and Pontiacs. As with what happened to the now 80+ year old 32 Ford, companies are making complete muscle car bodies. So cars like Chevelles, Camaros, Mustangs, and Cudas will live on long past the time the last "real" ones leave this earth.

And who is to say someone cant restore a car again? The market doesnt needs restorable candidates to keep it going. New parts are coming out all the time for cars that havent been made in 50 years. The cars will be here, but will there be people that want them. Thats the bottom line.

 

 

I can't imagine how painful this must have been!

 

This is true, but they are very helpful and useful skills to have. Most of my friends my age, have no clue how to even drive a car with a manual transmission. It's a damn shame. My children will learn on a manual and earn the privilege to drive an automatic.

 

Ha ha, thanks for the check, fixed it.

 

Prices may go down but it's not written in stone. All things fluctuate in price depending on lots of things. Stocks, gold, etc. I got more in my car than it's worth but don't care. Maybe it will increase in value or not. I know vendors make and sell lots of parts for my car so it seems they believe there is still interest in these cars. If they loose value maybe it's time to get more. You never know.

 

QUOTE=tru-blue 442;752042]This is true and sad at the same time. We all are going
to have to adjust to the "Throw away society" that has been created
that we now live in, unfortunately. Things have changed
so much over the years. I remember my Mother and Grandmother
had places to stock away used pie tins, margarine cups and bowls
with their lids, used egg cartons for fresh eggs and other whatnot.
They grew up in the era that was "Well we can use this again somewhere."
Not necessarily a bad thing, that helped me to be a more conservative person. [/QUOTE]

this touches on why these cars will always with have some value.
You Americans are lucky to have the market and social attitude where you could have so many variants and the golden age was when the designers still had free run. This period ran from the 50's to the early 70's then the bean counters, greed is gooders, pesky environmentalist and the need for crash worthiness changed the landscape forever.
There was a time where every town had a TV radio repair or bike shop because most families had one and when it stopped working you got it fixed.
There are literally billions of mobile phones around, yet there is not a repair shop within cooee of here, if they break down or get to 2 yrs old they end up in a drawer. Who here doesn't have more than one?
Cars are the same,when something goes wrong they plug them in and they tell the service guy what to replace ( because nothing is serviceable).
Im betting that no Prius built today will be on the road in 5o yrs, they are so complex and no one will be bothered once they get to the 20yr mark as its not financially viable.
These cars will always have a place as strange people like me with this inbuilt compulsion to fix thing will be drawn to them. Who here doesn't get a good feeling when a problem is diagnosed and repaired?
People like me are still being born ( in every country in the world)and they stopped making simple cars along time ago.
my 2 bobs worth

 

Out of 196 cars offered , 10 were Oldsmobiles , 5.1 % . 4 of the 10 Sold .

Lot # T - 20 . 79 Olds Hurst Olds , W-30 , 350 cid. Nice car 102,745 miles .
Was a Bid Goes On @ 7,000.
Lot # T - 21 . 77 Olds Cutlass , 442 , fresh black W / Gold stripes . Decent
Bid Goes on @ 7500 .
Lot # T - 39 . WOW . 1975 Olds Delta 88 Royale Convert . 24,500 miles .
Red W/ Wht top . Just beautiful , honest car . SOLD 7,000
Forgot Lot # T - 24 . Average 77 Olds Cutlass Cpe . Modified . Sold 6,000 .

Lot # T - 58 . Really Nice 68 Olds 442 Convert . Arkansas Doc's . POP , rebuilt engine , Rally Pack , 8-track . new paint + tires . Sold 26,500 .

Lot # T-72 . Gorgeous original 1968 Olds Toronado . B.G.O. @ 6000

Lot # T - 114 . 69 Olds Cutlass 442 , Fresh Day #2 , car . B.G.O. @ 15,000 .
Lot # T 119 . 1961 Olds Starfire Convert . Wht / Red . 32,203 miles .
One of the nicest . Factory , buckets , P.S. , P.B.. , P.Seats , AM / FM , console , tach .. Bid Goes On . @ 25,000.
Lot # T - 213 . 84 Olds Cutlass Supreme . 22,519 miles , Nice , real straight original , Sold @ 5250.00
Lot # T - 218 . 64 Olds Dynamic 88 Convert . 20 yr. old restoration .
Bid Goes On @ 5500 .

What does this say to me . 3 REALLY happy buyers . T- 39 ( 75 Royale Convert ) , T - 58 ( 68 442 Convert ) T - 213 ( 84 Cutlass Supreme )
All well bought .
The other 7 .. use your drink tickets , prepare to send your cars home .
Does not seem like a great day , or place to sell many of the cars offered today . My opinion is that the 3 sellers are drinking more than the ones sending their cars home . The auction gambit is truly NOT for the weak of heart ..
Always something to learn . As Joe P so accurately presents . It is much better to buy a restored or original car COMPLETELY DONE . These cars are perfect examples of this .
Cheers , Jimi

 

I am about 5 miles from Mecums Home base of operations.About 4 weeks ago the guy who consignes car for them stopped in the shop,we were talking about prices on these cars how many people think that prices are low. He said that they are having a tough time getting QUALITY cars that MOST of the cars that are selling (or not selling) in the 50,000 on down price bracket, are Not high quality,they are decent driver type restored and or just average run of the mill or less. He said that the Original survivor and concours restored cars just arent coming up for sale. Just watch these sales, Thursday,and early Friday are mostly the least desirable cars with an exception to some no being consigned on time, or not wanting to pay for a premium time spot. The best cars are always run late Friday and Saturday. When lets say just for example a 70 chevelle SS goes thru at 25,000- 50,000 everyone goes wow prices are down,then later another identical 70 Chevelle SS,same color etc goes thru for 75,000- 100,000. It doesnt take a Rocket scientist to figure out that there is a difference in quality between the two. The best cars will almost always bring big money unless they arent offered at the correct venue or there arent a few serious bidders. Im sure there are going to be a few jump in here and tell me Im wrong,but, I have been invoved in the preservation restoration selling of these cars for more than 35 yrs and have petty good handle on this.

Greg

 

There were cars offered - a few Oldsmobiles included - at this year's Dallas Mecum auction that I wouldn't take to a local Sonic cruise-in show much less try to pass off as good enough to go through the Mecum auction line.

 

This years Mecum/Dallas had better cars than last years. Mecum is not BJ, they have mostly driver quality cars and a small perctage of high doller restos mixed in. I've always considered them to be the "working mans auction". The cars do look wy better on TV.

 

Yeah, darn that crash-worthiness. It really gets in the way of a good time!