ShastaGirl

I am back.

I have a 1996 Olds Cutlass Ciera that started overheating one day.

Did some reading and suspected the thermostat. Replaced it. Job was a bitch, but didn't solve the problem.

Installed a new cooling fan and a water pump.

My car is still overheating and I am going to try a new radiator and new hoses.

My question is - what do I order as far as "transmission cooling" do I need 1 or 2 or does it matter?

I am afraid to order the radiator and find it is the wrong one. And, no one seems to have any idea what I am talking about when I ask this question, even the local parts house.....

Thank you to anyone who can answer this question for me. It seems simple...

ThePackRat

Might not be a radiator issue.

Do you have the 3.1 V6 ?.

Unfortunately those engines were notorious for the head gaskets going bad.

Is the motor oil milky ?.

Any white smoke from the exhaust ?.

Does the exhaust smell sweet at all ?.

Even if none of the above apply at this point ... a pressure check of the cooling system might be in order.

pogo69

the one or 2 refers to the tranny coolers...follow the coolant lines to determine

Koda

You probably need a radiator that has the transmission cooler in it (just one). Go look at your car and see where the lines go, should be one high, and one low, on the passenger side of the back of the radiator.

Take the car to the parts place, if you can make it. If not, take pictures. If the business helps you select the radiator, it is on them if it's the wrong one. I am guessing here, but the only one or two transmission cooler option I have ever seen is whether or not an aux trans cooler is there, and your car would not have one, dollars to donuts.

I imagine your radiator is very common.

BUT, before you do all this spending, troubleshoot some more. Run the car, and feel the radiator after it's warmed up and you shut it off. The radiator should go from hot to cold from one side to the other. If there is a tiny hot spot, that thing is plugged.

Also, put a fan on it and see if that helps (like a box fan for your garage). I don't think it will, because you have replaced the fan. The old saw used to be, if it overheats down the road it's a coolant thing, and if it overheats idling, but does fine on the road, it's an airflow thing. Since you're overheating period, the box fan probably won't matter.

Also, before the thermostat opens, the upper hose should be not pressurized, once it does, you should feel coolant going by.

Hoses won't be the problem, but are good to replace if you are doing the radiator.

Does the car run all right? Timing can affect temperature, but the computer should handle that.

Summerof84

The aux tranny cooler still routed through the regular radiator. I had one in a Celebrity. Since there was never a manual option for these cars, all the radiators are exactly the same for the engine. Specify 3.1 and all will be fine.

ShastaGirl

Thanks to everyone who has tried to help with this.

I do not have a blown head gasket. There is zero coolant in the engine and it pressure tested fine. I have no white smoke or odor in the exhaust.

When the car reaches operating temperature now, it kicks on the fan so I know the thermo and new fan are working.

My water pump is circulating.

However, my upper and lower hoses do not ever pressurize like they should. Even after the thermo opens the upper hose can be squeezed together and is not feeling like much is circulating through. It gets hot, and I can feel some fluid, but not like we think we should be able to.

If I continue to run the car in continues to heat up past where it should stop.

I do not have an airlock, as I have bled the coolant multiple times and know about that.

I live 30 miles from the nearest town, so online ordering is my thing for car parts at this point. But when I enter my car year, make, model and v6 3.1L I get two radiator choices, one transmission cooler or two.

I have two small lines coming from the radiator, and I was confused if one was in, and one was out, for the transmission cooler. Or, if that meant I might have two in there.

My AC does not work, so I don't care if it effects that. The car has over 200K miles on it. At this point I need it running again so my son can take his DMV test. And, time is running out on that. Argh...

pogo69

well the 2 small lines would be the one trans cooler if you had 4 small lines you would have two coolers...a radiator is about a 100 dollars so if its something else besides the radiator at 200k its prabably a good idea to change it out..is the old coolant dirty,rusty?

oldcutlass

The thermostat I believe has nothing to do with whether the fan kicks on or off. There is a temp sensor for that. If your hoses are not getting hard, I'm thinking your radiator cap is faulty. What we need to figure out is what temperature the car is actually reaching. The car gauge may be bad and they were not known for accurate readings.


There are 2 lines for your transmission cooler, 1 in and 1 out of the radiator.

ShastaGirl

When I did the water pump, the coolant did have some junk in it. It had what I assumed was some normal, very small metal particles. Also, there was a bit of nasty gunk in the overflow coolant bottle that looked like brown dirt.

We have never added anything other than coolant and distilled water, but that radiator has at least 70K miles on it.

I had someone come look at it who works on cars. His opinion was that either the water pump had an issue or the radiator was clogged. He said the radiator hoses should be hard to squeeze together and mine never get to that point. I can feel some fluid, but not like would be required to cool the engine. Hot or cold, I can squeeze both lower and upper radiator hoses till I can touch them together.

I replaced the water pump, put in clean coolant, bled it out... And, I still have the same problem.

At this point I am more than willing to replace the radiator because it is the only part of the system I haven't done and is pretty likely to be the problem.

Women's question? Will I need to buy a new radiator cap if I want to do that as well for the new radiator? I assume it doesn't come with one?

oldcutlass

I'd buy the cap first.

rr69ho

Simple question, are you get real hot heat inside the car when it's up to operating temperature. The heater core could be the problem.

pogo69

oldcutlass is right, for the price of the cap try that first

pogo69

a new radiator wont have a cap so you will need a new cap anyway

1970cs

The gents are correct, buy a new cap. But if your tight on money swing it by an autozone and see if the can pressure test it for you.

I have been having an intermittent hot light on my 70 and suspected the thermostat that was new just a 8 months ago. But doing more driving and testing found that my high dollar Year One cap would only hold 7lbs when running up to 15lbs with a pressure tester, it would drop fairly quick.

Replaced with one with correct styling from the local auto parts for $5, seems to be doing well.

Pat

ShastaGirl

No, I have no heat inside the cabin. I know the heater core is also a problem. However, everyone seems to say that doesn't effect the engine overheating because it has it's own hose and a bad heater core alone won't overheat the car. Is this false?

----Backstory ----

I was getting gasoline one afternoon. Left the station and heard a metallic thunk sound. )Still not sure what exactly that sound was.

Drove about 8 miles and noticed my car got hot. I waited then drove back the 8 miles and it was hot again, but never overheated or got completely too hot. Drove the rest of the way home, another 8 or so miles, and the car got hot and I had to stop twice to get it home.

I turned on the heater at the time and we noticed the air wasn't very hot.

• The fan was working
• antifreeze was crystal clear
• overflow bottle a bit gunky on the bottom
• Never overheated completely
• never leaked coolant anywhere we could find. Including the test of putting cardboard under the car for a few days. Zero coolant.

Suggestion at the time was the thermostat might be bad. So I replaced that.

Car still overheated and no hot air in the cabin. Suggestion was I had an airlock and needed to bleed the coolant. Have done that.

Noticed that as the car now overheated the fan did not come on. So, I bought and replaced the cooling fan. That now works, but the car still overheats.

Had someone look at it and he noticed that there is not enough movement of fluid and suggested maybe the blades of the water pump had issues and suggested I try that next, and if not the problem then do the radiator.

So, this is where I am now.

There appears to be suction and all that with the radiator cap. Would it just all of a sudden stop working and have no other symptoms or no visual problem?

----

I just realized. My son has a car with the same motor. I am going to use his radiator cap and see if that changes the overheating. At least I could do that to test it. Argh... cars....

rr69ho

If the heater core is blocked, the flow is not going through the engine block which will cause the blocks temp to rise. If you grab the lower hose that goes into the water pump and it's not super hot, then there's a blockage in the heater core and the core has to be replaced. Trust me, I just went through this with my 92 Ciera.

Ron

ShastaGirl

When I did the water pump replacement, we took both hoses off that go to the heater core. We blew them out with water, in the opposite direction of normal flow. There did not appear to be any blockage and the water flowed well.

Question? If my rad cap is bad, wouldn't it suck air into the cooling system?

When I run the car to test the heating problem I do not lose any coolant. If I go back when the car is again cool and open the rad it is completely full.

1970cs

Please read this!
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/cooling-system7.htm

Pat

ShastaGirl

And? I read it.

My coolant never overflows into the overflow container. So, you believe my cap may be faulty and this is the reason the overflow doesn't happen?

I am asking, and not trying to sound sarcastic. Really, I just want a working car again. It hasn't been working since last Sept!

Last time I posted here about this problem, one of the "mechanics" sent me a message saying that my heater core cannot cause my car to overheat. My local mechanic said the same thing. The reason being that it isn't really in the path of cooling the motor, but an auxiliary type thing with its own hoses.

1970cs

O.K. let's go back to square one! What's making you have cause to think it's overheating? Is the red hot light on or do you gauge indicating a overheat scenario. If so have you used an infer red or another mechanical gauge to verify the exact temp.

Also when reading that link, did you understand that the radiator cap increases the boiling point. Is your radiator boiling over? Does the engine area smell hot or sound hot (yes that sounds crazy but you will know when it's happening) because if your not pushing coolant into the overflow then you may not be overheating.

Bare in mind I am not there and also coming late to the party!

To address the no heat going to the heater outlet, does your control have vacuum to it and to the control valve?

Pat

ShastaGirl

Okay, I went out and took the radiator cap off of my old Chevy Blazer. It is the same size as my car's rad cap.

Put the different cap on and drove. The gauge gets to mid-heat and then when the therm opens it drops down to about 1/4 on the gauge. Ran the car up a grade, on the highway, and locally around the area at lower speed, and it never got hot again!

Turned on the heater and the air was hot.

My car no longer overheats and I once again have heat in the cabin.

Honestly, that was my problem? Slapping my head, hard!

1970cs

Well, I am glad that you have it fixed. You have some decent diagnostic skills by reading your posts!

The lesson here is don't throw parts at it until you have done do diligence on the diagnostic end. Sad part is all the money spent!

Pat

pogo69

And you better buy eric a box of chocolates

oldcutlass

If the radiator never builds pressure (soft hoses), that means the cap was no good. The heater core has nothing to do with the flow of water through the engine. If the system does not pressurize it will get hot because the pressure raises the boiling point of the coolant. Make sure your overflow tank is filled to the proper level.


Glad it worked out for you.

ThePackRat

That's great it turned out to be a simple fix.

rustyroger

One last point now you have fixed your problem.
Make sure you have at least a 33%, preferably 50%, antifreeze mix in the cooling system.
Not because it might get cold but antifreeze contains corrosion inhibitors and lubricant for the water pump, important for long term engine life.


Roger.