For the 4th time since I've owned these cars for over 40 years, it happened again. Yesterday I got my 79 H/O back out of storage so I can resume spiffing it up for the Nationals. Literally on the way out of the storage area, while I was out of the running car and closing the gate, it sounded just like someone turned off the ignition. Croaked. No spark. I instantly knew what the issue was, but I have to say, this is the first time I experienced this while the car was running; the other 3 times when it happened the car was off and would not start.

Fortunately, I always carry a spare (nos) D-1906 ignition module so this was an easy repair. However, had I not had an extra, this really could have become a nightmare. It can happen anywhere, anytime. These things just DIE on you, leaving you potentially stranded.

For you HEI distributor users, I highly recommend ALWAYS carrying an extra ignition module along with whatever you need to remove the distributor cap and rotor, so you can be on your way in a matter of minutes, rather than being stuck somewhere needing a part that probably no one (in the area you broke down) stocks anymore.

 

I'll chime in on this...

On this weekend last summer, an HEI ignition module left my 1973 Chevelle out-of-action at a big cruise night...80 miles from home. As BlueCalais stated, I also knew EXACTLY what it was. Pulled a spark plug to check for spark to confirm. Anyhoo, the tow bill was going to be over $300 until I chatted with the driver for while and he found out I was a LEO. Still cost me $200.

So, I now ALSO carry a spare HEI module in the glove box along with a little tube of dielectric grease (very important for connectivity and heat reduction). And not a made-in-Chinah-cheapie...a NOS AC Delco one make in the USA.

 

I always have to laugh when people swear that the must install electronic ignition to make the car more reliable...

 

Amen to that...My son's 1950 Ford 8N tractor is running the ORIGINAL points and condenser! Just keep a fingernail brush in your tool box and clean the contacts when required.

 

Better yet get a Buick. You don't even have to lean over the motor to swap it.

HEIs are fine. Just don't throw garbage parts in them.

 

Make sure it's the thermal paste that you carry in your glove box, not dielectric grease. This is what you want.

https://www.arctic.de/us/products/co...l-pastes-pads/

 

X 2.
.....and less maintenance ? What do they call unexpected failure ?
I guess when people refer to installing HEI as an "Upgrade", I am not convinced.
.....Just my two cents worth.

 

Electronic components are luck of the draw. Changed the original cap and rotor on the 87 307 a few years ago just because. Still has all the original guts, wires and plugs. Runs like a top.

 

Thanks for this, just bought some:

Make sure it's the thermal paste that you carry in your glove box, not dielectric grease. This is what you want.

https://www.arctic.de/us/products/co...l-pastes-pads/

 

Arctic Silver, baby!

 

I was not aware of this! I have been using dielectric grease because that what is in the little tube that comes with the module...I guess that is just for the blade connectors. I will have to rectify that ASAP!

Thanks, Blue!

 

You bet. And x2 on the Delco NOS. I'll take the red, white and blue box please, anything that's dated 1995 and older will do.

 

Nope. That little silicone grease tube that comes with the Delco units is indeed intended for the baseplate. I don't use it anymore anyway- I use the heat sink paste, just because. GM claims it's a special heat sink silicone grease. I've used it over the years on various module changeouts, never had an issue with it. Likely being 30 years old, even if new in the tube, I'd probably go with the computer silver heat sink paste or something newer.



Read Step 3.

 

Interesting...Well, I have ordered some Arctic MX-6 thermal paste, and will sort out the Chevelle ASAP.

 

I have a spare in the trunk and have never needed it. If I left it at home, I know I would need it the first time I went out. I also carry a cap and rotor.

 

Call Performance Distributors (Davis Unified Ignition). They sell the good modules.
All ya gotta do is put a few key words into the googler and voilà high quality USA parts at your finger tips.

Good clean grounds to & from the engine will prevent transients. HEI Mallory etc do like good grounds.

 

don't forget a pickup coil......just in case!

 

x2 on that one. D-1907 - got a few of those too.

 

It's been years since I've seen one of those "ketchup style packets" of thermal paste included with an HEI module. As I recall, the last time I got some it was white.

Just order the computer chip thermal paste from Amazon and you should be set.

 

I have been “inconvenienced” 3 times in 50 years by ignition related problems.

1 sheared roll pin on dist gear. (Points) Thankfully happened a block from home, son and some friends were at house, came & pushed me home, Pizza was still hot on arrival!

1 failed pole piece (GM HEI). Interestingly, was taking a guy from NE Olds Show to the parts store to get an alternator so he could get home from CT to MA.

1 failed module (Mallory HEI) Also interestingly the first replacement module I received was DOA - Mallory 699.

I like to keep a whole HEI in the trunk since if there’s a problem, it’s not necessarily a bad module. Why dick around? Check for spark, confirm power feed, pull HEI & stab in the spare. Rough time it or do it with a timing light, back on the road in about 10 minutes. Despite the lesser reliability of electronics (especially aftermarket) vs points, I’ll take the HEI any day of the week for consistency and “set & forget.” Call me crazy!

…

 

This is what I have had fail on probably a half dozen HEI equipped vehicles. The only modules I have had fail or seen in a shop environment was two Pertronix Ignitor 3, used the proper paste on both, very finicky. I also had an older MSD fancy module fail when I swapped the distributor but didn't use paste. We don't have the intense heat as down there but pick up coil failures on old HEI, is a much bigger problem for me.

 

bccan, quick question on that. I know it may be "stupid question of the day", but, what is the trick to pulling the distributor with the oil pump rod attached? I had one fall off on me and plunk into the oil pan, and it took me over an hour to get it out with a telescoping magnet. Is that rod supposed to be pulled when the distributor comes out? Thanks. I ask due to this scenario possibly happening again if I go to pull the distributor I installed.

 

In my experience, you can kind of feel if the shaft pulling out of the oil pump. If it is, you have a choices to make. Lower dist back down & try to “micro wiggle” it hoping to release the rod, try to “micro ****” the dist hoping to wedge the rod in the dist gear, or pull & hope that if shaft pulls up with dist but then drops, it doesn’t find a bad place to relocate. Obviously the “micro” are just that when the dist body is engaged in the machined bore, becoming much bigger as dist is withdrawn. Maybe I’ve been lucky over the millennia to not have an incident, even if one fell in, I had no particular trouble retrieving it.

I’ve had them stay in the pump, had them stick in the dist gear and had them fall down (but not far), I think I’ve had at least one fall down & wedge a bit, requiring long needle nose to grab it and free it, but never had one drop into the pan.

IIRC, originally Olds dists have a Tinnerman Clip on the shaft to help prevent this from happening, though I never put similar on an aftermarket shaft. Could just be a measure of luck!

…

 

Points wear on non-HEI distributors, HEI modules stop without warning. Decide which you like best and prepare for eventual failure. All those parts are small enough to carry several spares.

I do recommend USA made parts tho. If my 40 years experience with these cars proves to be anything like a guide. Sad we’re getting flooded with poor quality parts these days.

Chris

 

When I was 17-19 I had a 76 Cutlass Salon. I had this exact issue with my module. But, when one would die one me, I would swap the old one back in and be on my way. I have NO IDEA why they would stop working, and then work when I swapped them for each other. I never figured it out.

 

Sorry, Chris, but not the same thing. Points are intended to be normal wear items that are replaced periodically. The difference is that you KNOW you're supposed to replace points and condenser every 12,000 miles or one year, when you do a tune up. Points don't randomly go bad unless there's another problem. The only time I've had a problem on the road was when the Chinesium condenser went bad, causing my points to burn out at 3,000 miles. Yeah, I assumed that Standard Motor Products was a quality brand. Apparently not anymore. I really like the Accel HD points and condensers, which is what I use now. And of course, in a pinch you can file those burned points, set the gap with a matchbook cover, and it will get you home.

 

I put one of these in the blue car, must be 10 years+ now,,,,never had another problem. I make no claims really, but I am a believer, it works properly every time. You install it and forget all about your ignition,,,it's going to work when you turn the key.
I guess "perfection" and "never lets you down" may be impossible, but for many years the ignition has been just that.
Hope I don't jinx myself, but, "It works for me".
Happy trails
Breakerless SE Single Wire Ignition

 

Lots of hair on fire responses here. This is a kin to being scared of quick sand.

 

I like it when Joe P disagrees with me. I always learn something.

Way out at the apocalyptic edge of my ignition thinking, I believe after the EMP from a nuclear blast, points ignitions will work and HEI ignitions won't.

I'd better go digging under the house to see if I have my points ignitions under there...

Cheers
Chris

 

I'm more concerned about when the cops get EMP guns, but yeah, my car will still run.

 

Back in 1993 I bought a 72 Cutlass convertible with a 350. The first thing I did was put a junk yard HEI in it. I kept the car over 20 years and never touched it again. I know I was probably very lucky. I do keep spare parts for the HEI in my 75 Hurst Olds.

 

Sorry that happened Blue, but glad you were prepared.

Reliability was/is the false narrative used as a selling point.

Exactly, because it never was.

All the pro verbiage regarding HEI was to hide the fact that it came to be because our cars were compromised.

"The demands for better emissions and fuel economy in the mid 1970s necessitated leaner fuel mixtures. These leaner mixtures required greater voltage and more spark to ignite. This challenge led GM engineers to design the HEI distributor, which effectively replaced the points-style systems that had been in service for decades." Motor Trend (https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/13...-an-hei-system)

That quote of course is from a pro HEI swap article, so reading between the lines is key.

 

I have had modules fail only when they get hot. Let them cool, the car will start right back up.

I can count on one hand the number of defective DELCO modules I have replaced. However, I have replaced lots of cheap aftermarket modules.

GM HEI is very reliable. I’ll go so far as to say HEI is only as reliable as the parts that are put in it.

Ignition points are suppose to be maintenance items. It was expected to reset the dwell and ignition timing every 10k miles or so. Considering most people don’t daily drive these cars anymore, it takes a while to rack up 10k miles of car show and ice cream runs.

If spending an hour or so in the garage every couple years for routine maintenance is too much of an inconvenience, then more than likely the car hobby isn’t for you.

 

As I've pointed out in nearly every "HEI upgrade" thread, the GM HEI and the equivalent electronic systems from other manufacturers were designed to meet the EPA requirements that cars meet emissions standards after 50,000 miles without any maintenance, since most owners were not rigorous in their car maintenance schedules. The only way to do that was an electronic ignition system that didn't have any wear parts and larger gaps in the plugs so they wouldn't short out when the electrodes got caked with crud. Larger gaps required higher voltage. Heck, the original GM factory HEI modules started to break up over 4000-4500 RPM, so not exactly a performance "upgrade".