quaddriver

How much of a PITA will this be: my 78 98 has a power antenna that now just makes a lot of noise, but never shows.


Is it fixable itself?


And what is involved to get to it? I have not had to go after a GM fender antenna in over 25 years and never on one of my old-es (most had the windshield thingy)


I really wanna stay power, cuz, well, is a 98, but I would not even know where to get one nowadays

Gerald Nickels

EAST BAY AUCTIONS or EBAY.

jcdynamic88

it's been a while but i think you have to remove part of the inner fender.i did have one of those,can't remember if i still have it.

Allan R

It most definitely won't fix itself. Chances are good the spooling link has come undone. Either replace the whole thing or ignore it. If you can coax the top of the antenna up a bit, just pull it up and remove the antenna fuse.

joe_padavano

There is a plastic cable inside the mast (think large diameter weed eater string) that pushes the mast sections up and pulls them down. This cable winds on a motor-driven drum. The most common failure mode is that the cable breaks where it is retained in the drum. The motor will just continue to run until this is fixed. You can buy a replacement mast and cable assembly.

BillK

I have had to do the one in my Wife's 84 Riviera and it wasnt a bad job. Loosen the fender bolts and the inner fender and you can pry the fender out enough to get the antenna out. Hers is stuck in the up position right now so I guess that is another upcoming project The antennas are still available through AC Delco and that is the only brand I would use.

Human

I've replaced several power antennas on '90s vintage full size GM cars (Olds LSS, Pontiac Bonneville, Caillac DeVille) but those were set in the rear fender. I had to pull back the trunk liner to get to the antenna. I imagine it would be the same on the front except you'd have to take out the inner fender to get to it.

I've always gotten good deals at the boneyards. The last one I bought cost me like $13. The trick to finding a good antenna is to look for one that's fully retracted. It's also easier to get out of the car that way.

jaunty75

Do you have a website link for this?

jaunty75

Where?

Human

Check the parts department of any GM dealership, especially one that's been around for awhile. You could also check gmpartsdirect.com, which is the mail order operation of Flow Chevrolet in Winston-Salem, N.C. The antenna for that '78 model would probably be the same on up into the '80s. Oldsmobile made a Custom Cruiser wagon based on that same platform until 1990.

jaunty75

I found nothing here. I have a '78 Toronado with a similar issue to the OP's car. gmpartsdirect only goes back to 1984. I put that in and searched on 1984 Toronado. Nothing available but replacement antenna masts for manual antennas. Everything related to power antennas is grayed out and shows "discontinued."

I then searched on Delta 88, and the model year situation is even worse. Nothing earlier than 1992, and, again, nothing for power antennas.

jaunty75

I found this video, which is interesting. The part he uses is from a Corvette supplier. Any idea if the part he uses would work in a '78 Olds?

The part he refers to is shown on the zip-corvette website, but it is currently out of stock.

https://www.zip-corvette.com/78-82-8...le-w-o-cb.html

cjsdad

Bunch of "if's". If you have a "three segment" power antenna. If the motor still runs. If the mast is not bent. It can be rebuilt. The "rod and cable" can be purchased here on fleabay. This is the only one I could find so act quicly.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...LH_TitleDesc=0

That video posted earlier is kinda, sorta correct. To get to the antenna, remove all the bolts along the bottom of the front fender so that it can be pulled out at the bottom without bending or warping the sheetmetal. Remove the antenna nut at the top of the fender, then remove the bolt that holds the antenna brace. This may be difficult, I don't remember where that particular bolt will be. Some are easier than others. Pull the antenna out. There should be a plug for the power wires and a screw collar for the coax. Again, some are easier than others. The screw collar may be a simple collar that screws onto a nub that is part of the antenna housing or it will have two screws that hold the coax base onto the housing. Either way, disconnect the coax and take the antenna to whatever you are using for a workbench. Remove the spring clips from around the plastic housing and save them. Drill the rivets out of the plastic housing. This can be bothersome at times because the rivets will spin. Simply angle the drill bit so it cuts the brass rivet as it turns and eventually it will cut the rivet in half. Don't forget the one in the middle! split the housing carefully with the flat half on top. The broken plastic cable and "L" shaped metal base can be removed from the drive motor at this time. You will need to push the antenna mast up far enough to remove the button from the mast. It is 7mm or 9/32 socket and don't gouge the mast, it will damage the lower segment of the mast.. Once the button is unscrewed, put it in a safe place, you will need it on the new mast. If the old mast will not come out easily, unscrew the plastic guide like in the video. Once the old mast is removed, reinstall the plastic screw and feed the new mast up through the antenna housing and extend it all the way. Screw the button on the new mast tight, again without gouging it. Fit the "L" hook into the drive motor and put the two halves of the motor housing back together with the spring clips and add small bolts through the rivet holes to secure everything permanently. Plug the power wires back in and run the antenna up and down several times. It will auto-adjust the up and down limits. Reconnect the coax and re-install the antenna. Re-install the fender bolts and you are done.

BillK

Here is a link to the AC Delco online catalog. It doesnt look like they have the earlier antennas. They do still show them for My 84 Riviera, must be different.


http://parts-catalog.acdelco.com/cat...log_search.php

jaunty75

They don't have much of anything for 1978. That antenna for your car actually fits back to 1979, and includes Toronado, so I'm one year off.

Here's a question. Let's say you actually find something on that site. How do you buy it? It does not look they actually sell anything. What do you do, just take the part number they show and start contacting vendors?

jaunty75

Thanks for the all the info and advice. I've saved it should I ever attempt this.

But I have a potential further complication. The radio in my car is apparently a factory CB radio. It has CB capability and a microphone, and the antenna is apparently also for CB. It's a little weird because I have the dealer invoice for this car from the GM Heritage Center, and it does not show the CB radio as the radio initially in the car. It just shows the AM/FM/8-track, and it shows the standard power antenna. But my car has what is apparently the factory CB radio and the special "tri-band" power antenna that came with it. I'm thinking the original purchaser changed his mind once he got the car and had the dealer install a CB radio and the necessary antenna, which means someone has probably disassembled the car enough to get at the antenna once before. But until and unless I can find the proper replacement cable, or find a replacement antenna, there's not much point in going after the antenna now.

Below are photos of the full antenna and a close-up of the part of it that is apparently for the CB.














Anyway, the reason for my concern is that the part sold by that corvette place I mentioned earlier (which looks just like the part being sold on ebay) specifically says "w/o CB."








So my guess is that this part won't work on my antenna. It would seem my only choices are either to replace the entire antenna with a correct non-CB antenna from a parts car and with which I can use this replacement cable if needed, OR finding a replacement cable for the power CB antenna, which I'm guessing would be the definition of impossible.

cjsdad

As I recall, the "tri-band" antennas use the same rebuild piece. Find a working standard antenna and measure the full upright length and the top section, then compare it to yours. It should be the same. The lower sections of your antenna are shorter so that the whole antenna can retract down inside the fender with the CB load but the plastic cable inside should be the same. If the length is the same to the bottom of the top section but the top section (the rod) is longer, it can be cut and re-threaded. Once repaired though you will need to adjust the coax splitter so the SWR reading is withing acceptable range so it will not damage the output of the CB. Those antennas are very easy to get out of range.

jaunty75

Easier said than done! These aren't exactly lying around on the ground. I imagine most of the working ones are still in the cars they were born in, and those cars' owners don't want to remove their antennas just so I can look at one. I'll have to find someone parting out one of these cars, or a car that used the same antenna, that still has a working antenna. Wish me luck.

One dumb question. If the CB antenna uses the same internal cable as the non-CB version, then why does that website specifically state that the cable they sell is for non-CB antennas?




I do appreciate all of your time and advice.

jaunty75

I bought it. I got it for $10 less than his asking price by using the "Make Offer" option. His original price was $30, I offered $15, he countered with $20, and I accepted. I don't know if I'll end up actually needing it or that it will actually fit, but, as you say, these aren't growing on trees, so I thought I'd ****** it just in case. $20 isn't too bad for a part I might not end up needing. Wouldn't be the first time I've done something like that.

I've also gone out into the garage and gotten down and taken a good look at the situation as far as getting that inner fender loosened enough to get at the antenna, and I'm going to give it a try this week. It turns out that it's actually an opportune time to be monkeying with that inner fender as the A/C system is currently out of car and off getting restored, so that side of the engine compartment is wide open.

I did find an apparently working power antenna for one of these at a salvage yard in Pennsylvania. He wants $250 for it. I figure that I'll see what I can do about getting mine back in working order before spending that much on another one.

jaunty75

Here's the only diagram in the chassis service manual showing the '78 Toronado antenna. Only one sentence accompanies this figure plus one that shows the wiring under the dash. It says, basically, "the antenna is installed as illustrated."








To perhaps help the OP of this thread, who has a same-year 98, here's the corresponding diagram for his car. For the 88 and 98, the manual actually does have a four-step set of removal directions, with the first one being "Loosen the right inner and outer fender at the rear." After that, it's just removing bolts and braces to remove the antenna.


I'm guessing the first step in getting at the Toro antenna is the same!

cjsdad

You don't need to dissect the stupid thing, just measure the length of the antenna that sticks above the fender. If the three lower sections of yours is the same height as the two bottom sections of a non-CB antenna then the cable will work in yours. You will need to cut the top section (the rod) and thread it so it is the same length as your original, but that is simple. The reason the part number is different is because GM used a different part number for every different modification of everything they ever made, bought, or sold. They used the same cable in your antenna but because it has a different length rod, it has a different part number. GM used a different part number for that same rebuild kit for every different vehicle they installed them in.

quaddriver

ok thanks for the tips, I used a set of tiny needle nose and pulled it up and used e tape to hold it up - its flimsy as what goes inside, isnt.



here is the kicker, when it was not working, and you turned the radio on, you could hear it grind away and stop in a proper amount of time, so the device was thinking it got the antenna up.


so it seems I merely loosen the rear fender bolts and it come out enuf to play with?


the last power antenna I did was adding one to my boat in 1998, it was a generic one size works all but my normal sources for one are all long since pushing up corporate daisies.


granted, Id like to address this in the off season and work my gm radio magic on this unit (seethe other thread I did a while back) and not go aftermarket at all.

cjsdad

You'll need to REMOVE enough bolts from the rear and lower part of the fender so that you don't warp the fender when you pull it out far enough to reach the antenna. I never had to remove or loosen any bolts at the top of the fender, but some fenders need to have the bolts removed all the way around the wheel opening to flex enough.

jaunty75

I went at it today, and I got the antenna out, but it wasn't pretty. I removed every bolt that holds the inner fender in place, even bolts that I shouldn't have to remove if my goal is to only push/bend the fender out of the way instead of removing it completely, and it was still pretty much impossible to move it out of the way to any significant degree. To be honest, I'm not sure how I'd get the inner fender out if for some reason I actually wanted to remove it completely from the car.

So I reverted to plan B. I had cut an opening in the inner fender on a previous job when I wanted to get at the blower motor. In that case, the procedure actually IS to cut an opening in the inner fender along score lines previously embossed on the inner fender at the factory for that purpose. All I did was remove the patch I had put over the cut and made the cut larger. A lot larger. But in the end, an opening cut into the fender is an opening cut into the fender, and if I can patch and seal a smaller opening, I can patch and seal a larger opening.

One thing I discovered, which made it all the more necessary to throw the chassis manual away on this and take measures into my own hands, is that the screw for the bracket at the bottom of the antenna (circled in red in the image below) actually goes through the inner fender! In other words, the antenna itself was actually secured to the piece I was trying to move out of the way! I don't think this was necessarily factory as there is evidence, such as several missing bolts, that the inner fender and antenna had been played with before. As I said earlier, the car apparently originally came with only an AM/FM radio, not the AM/FM/CB that's in it now, and when the replacement radio was put in, the antenna had to be replaced, too.







OK, so, as they say, when God opens one door, he closes another, or something like that.

I disconnected the antenna and power connections and removed the antenna from the car. Photos are below.

As-removed from the car.






After I cleaned it up a bit.





Interesting info inscribed in the top piece. It says "OLDS-E". I'm guessing that means E body, which is what the Toronado (and Eldorado) are.





Anyway, here's my current dilemma. The two covers at the bottom are easy to remove. The black one is just a press fit, and it pops right off. But under it is just motor windings and such, so that's not the side to open to get at the antenna cable and mechanism.

So I removed the metal cover, which requires removing two screws. No problem with that, but when I get the cover off, I see what's shown in the photo below.






This is the side where the cable winding is, but there's no indication at all as to how to remove anything to get at it. I'm afraid to start prying off springs and clips and things for fear that something will suddenly let loose, and springs and clips and gears will go flying off in all directions leaving me no hope of every figuring out how it all goes back together.

I did try prying up on the edges to see if anything might just lift out with a little gentle pressure, but no luck. It's in there solid. Any suggestions as to where to go next here?

Koda

Check for snap ring under the lip on the outside. Also check for set screw under the flat portion on the thing on the end of the shaft.

jaunty75

OK, I caved and put in an aftermarket, universal unit. Looks fine. Works fine. No CB capability, but, like I said, I don't plan to use the CB portion of the radio, anyway. But now, for the first time since I acquired the car in February of last year, the antenna actually disappears completely into the fender. I was able to reuse the Toro-fender-shaped escutcheon along with the mounting hardware that came with the new antenna, and I think it looks pretty good when fully retracted.

Fortunately, it was easy to wire up the unit so that it works properly with the radio on-off switch. Took the car all over town with the radio on and had reception as good as it ever was with the old antenna, and it was pretty good with the old antenna.

I have the original unit carefully stored away. Not sure what I'll ever do with it, but if some later owner of the car wants to put the original antenna back in, there it will be. Except, as I said earlier, I don't think it's the actual original original antenna as it was apparently changed when the original AM/FM/Tape radio was swapped out for one with a CB capability.


Fully extended.








Fully retracted. The mounting is a little higher than factory appearance, but close enough. I don't think anyone looking at it would faint dead away in disgust.

jaunty75

The cable I bought from Ebay arrived today. Since I, in the meantime, decided to cheat and install an aftermarket antenna, I no longer need this cable. If it will help quaddriver fix the antenna on his 98, I'm glad to sell it to you for what I paid for it, $20 plus $7 shipping. Let me know.