70cutlass

Hey Guys

Has anyone ever bought a car unseen other than pictures, I have found a 70 cutlass that I would like to purchase that is in Phoenix and I'm in Canada.

I don't have time to fly down and make the deal, so is there away to complete a transaction with some security? I have had a couple of conversations with the seller and things appear to be on the up and up, when I asked for more pictures I had them within a couple of hours.

MDchanic

Best advice: DON'T.

Next best advice: Find a reputable member here, or somewhere else, who lives locally and can check it out thoroughly for you.

- Eric

D. Yaros

Have the car inspected by a professional. It will be the best money you ever spent. Some inspection outfits also act as transfer agent for the money and title.

The outfit I have used with good results was - http://www.automobileinspections.com/Index.asp

MDchanic

I will add a link to the Skuli Camaro video, for illustrative purposes.


- Eric

Funkwagon455

I have done this three times since '99. I still happily own all three cars. Is there a certain amount of risk doing this? YES! I would suppose that I've been lucky, but I have gauged my interest based on photos, the wording in the description or phone conversations. In short I went with my gut instinct. Good photos help, as does the owners knowledge and willingness to disclose information about the car. Also bare in mind that many folks that buy cars who have had the opportunity to give it the borescope, white glove inspection ultimately go home with a pig wearing lipstick. If you have a good knowledge about what you are buying, and can pickup the right signals from the seller, it can help make a decision you don't regret. Good luck!!

oldcutlass

I prefer to buy after going through the touchy feely process in person. With that said, if it's an inexpensive car, I would go off of quality pictures and a good description of it.

70cutlass

The conversations I've had seem pretty genuine, he has been pretty up front with condition. I guess its just a matter if a guy want to take a gamble.

Thanks.

70cutlass

Its defiantly not a restored car but he has sent me the pictures that I have asked for without hesitation.

442scotty

I purchased my 65 442 without seeing it in person. It had been running on Ebay and I had been kind of chasing it for years. I managed to get ahold of the seller and make a deal sight unseen other than the online photos.

The car was pretty much as advertised.( minor embellishment and some minor info not provided) Now normally I would not do this kind of deal without following the advise as previously stated in this thread but I didn't have a lot of time to work with the seller.

He happened to be a local Police Chief which gave me a fair amount of confidence that I would not be screwed over. Even that is no guarantee because no matter how honest someone is, anyone desperate to sell a car will leave out some negative information on their vehicles...

Funkwagon455

Other considerations include: adjust your budget to account for cost of transport- from Pheonix to Canada will be substantial. Also, I don't know if there are any taxes/international import fees associated with Canada. I'm sure that someone here can inform you though. Another consideration is the availability of the car (how common is it?) I have not preferred buying cars sight unseen, but the examples I did were not sitting on every corner.

70cutlass

The transportation may be substantial I actually have a bid in to see what the cost may be. I have imported a motorcycle once so I have an idea what that will cost.

Trying to find a car in Canada that isn't completely rusted out is a difficult task /costly, that is why I'm thinking of taking this risk, at this point I'm not to concerned that he isn't being truthful about the condition of the car, its just how the transaction will work.

joe_padavano

Having just done this three times in the last four years, I'll offer some lessons-learned.

1) The car will always be worse than the pictures show. Just assume this and move on.

2) Sellers are either uninformed or lying. Pick one. I spent many phone calls talking to the seller of my 64 Vista. I really believed he was telling me the truth about condition. Now I know better. He may not have been lying, but he did not provide ALL of the information he should have. Of course, I probably would have bought the car anyway, but I would have had more negotiating power with facts.

3) Inspection by either yourself or a third party requires knowledge of what to look for. The rust on my Vista was not really visible (though highly suspected) until all the stainless around the roof windows was removed. If the seller won't allow this, then even an in-person inspection won't tell you the true condition.

4) The only thing that really matters is rust. Well, that and missing parts for a car where these parts are not readily available (which is what I always seem to be buying). 70 Cutlii are well-supported in the repro market.

5) If you are shipping a car, all car shipping companies are scum. I've dealt with seven different companies in the last four years. You will always get a low-ball quote initially, followed by weeks of waiting, followed by phone calls suggesting that raising the price will make it more likely to get the car shipped. Even the shippers who say they are not brokers are lying, as I found out recently. On the Vista, I finally told the shipper to give me a price that would get the car picked up by the end of the week. It ended up being just about twice my original quote. That price did get the car delivered, however. The question is, how much BS do you want to put up with?

jaunty75

How much money are we talking about here?

If it's a $1000 car, then, yeah, I might by it sight unseen. If it turns out to be less than expected, well, you're not out that much over what it might really have been worth.

But if it's a $5,000 car? Probably not. Whatever it takes, it's worth either you going to look at it or hiring someone independent to go see it as your representative.


Besides, Phoenix is nice this time of year.

Kowal

I have bought two collector cars without seeing them first in person. Burned both times. A 70 Cuda that had a pretty shakey trunk floor and quarter extensions once I saw them in person, with paint that I had to wet sand. And then a 79 Trans Am that ended up costing me a ton of dough to rebuild a very worn motor that I knew as soon as I heard it in person, versus the video I had watched.

I took the time to drive 3 hours to see a 68 GTX in person that I thought was a no brainer, I passed after seeing horrible body work.

Even having a friend do an inspection is risky as all of us have different views on things. My advise, the airline ticket is cheaper than the rework, if you want the car that bad.

vette442

Depends on the ethics and knowledge of the seller.

I bought a '72 Chevy truck from Chad on here in 2007 and it was darn near as nice as I hoped for. A winner for sight unseen.

I got torched on a '69 Corvette even though the seller had others in his collection, so he knew his Vettes and I also knew what questions to ask. He just chose to answer selectively, I guess.

Got burned on a 4 speed '72 Supreme too - the guy must have been blind. I knew what questions to ask there too and he flat out ignored or was oblivious to things I noticed within a minute of the car arriving. They never would have been visible in pics though.

Lost thousands on each car to make them go away.

If you can get someone to check it out in person for you, it will save lots of potential angst. There should be several people on here near Phoenix.

Terry

70cutlass

Thanks guys
a lot of real good info.

TripDeuces

I've only done this once and although I was lucky and got a decent car at a decent price I would still say don't do it. My car was not as advertised but I knew that from the pics.

I'm with Joe P. on this one. All his points are valid.

As G'Kar said best on Babylon 5............"Let me pass on to you the one thing I've learned about this place. No one here is exactly what he appears."

I think this applies to cars also

Sircajun

Go with your gut feeling. I just bought a Cutlass from a guy on this board and had it shipped half way around the globe. Seller was more than willing to provide additional photos and answer questions. Had the car for 7 years and knew a great deal about it. It takes some ***** to wire that kind of cash to a guy you´ve never meet. My luck that the car was exactly as describes, a bit better on some point a little worse on others, all in all, as described.

RandyS

to add my .02 - don't. I bought what I thought was a 66 442 with a fresh motor that looked to be in great shape........... let's just say - I should have gotten a kiss too........

442Fred

I live in Phoenix and can look at it for you if you are serious.

z11375ss

I'm 1 for 4 in this department. Have it inspected.

Alb

I did this once. Never again!!!!!!!!! Luckily it was on evilbay. When I got the car it was a piece of junk. 69 Cutlass. Called the guy and he gave me the run around. So I froze his paypal account. That got some action. I told him that if I didn't get all my money back including the shipping. I would file a claim in the town where I live. Also there would be internet fraud charges. I had everything that I needed. I.E. all the questions that I had asked and his responses. So it really was a no brainer. A funny thing he said to me was. You are taking food out of my kids mouth by freezing his account. I told him had he not lied things would be fine so in reality he was taking the food. Did get all my money back plus he didn't want to pay to have it shipped back. So he sent me a bill of sale marked paid for the car.
Alb

s i 442

When they say " only 1 small rip in the seat", well a rip can't be fixed so the whole seat might as while be in shreads.
1 small rust hole the size of a quarter, well unless you only own 1 quart of bondo a football sized hole will take the same amount of time to fix right.
Just prepare and have enough money set back to fix some stuff.

irvan

I've bought 2 cars without seeing them, the first one was from an 85 year old guy who couldn't say a whole lot for sure about his car, it was great. The second was from a man who answered every question exactly how I hoped, it wasn't even close. I'm done buying cars sight unseen.

455Olds

I got burned buying a car sight unseen from a seemingly well-respected member of this very forum. It happens to the best of us and it's a roll of the dice. If you don't know someone from a hole in the ground and you trust their word with thousands of your hard-earned dollars, you're well on your way to being screwed over, taken advantage of, lied to, or all of the above. If you can, always buy local and always buy something you can see and touch for yourself. That's just my opinion.

dc2x4drvr

If you don't inspect shame on you, the seller is not your friend.

lshlsh2

Bought my car off of evilbay sight unseen. I however was close enough to pick-up myself. Went with certified check in hand and was prepared to walk if not what I expected. Was a little disappointed, then realized I was thinking of a new car not a 40 year old one. It was a good deal for me and I'm enjoying working on it.
I wouldn't buy one sight unseen and have it sent to me ever.

Larry

RetroRanger

Interesting thread I recently sold a car sight unseen to another member it was an 85 442.

So I volunteer to be the forum guinia pig of sorts

The buyer asked a lot of questions, asked for a lot of pictures, and we emailed or talked on the phone several times as well. I tried to answer all his questions as honestly and accuretly as I could. I bought the car last year, drove it once for 10 miles and stored it, this year i acquired another car for a summer driver so I sold this one, I had no intention of selling when I bought it I had planned to drive it this summer while my 72 gets some work done. So I did not have an intimate knowledge of the car, but I did buy it for myself so I thought it was good enough for me. In short I advertised it as a 30 year old mostly original car that has sat for the last 2 years and needs tires and TLC to be a driver or needs a complete resto. here is a link to my ad my cl ad was similar

with that said Ill let the buyer post my scorecard, Im certain we may disagree on some minor points but I think overall I represented the car fairly and honestly.

EDIT I wrote the above yesterday but didnt get a chance to post it, I have since heard from the buyer that he is happy, but maybe our interaction can help future sight unseen purchases. I will send the buyer a PM and invite him to post here here what he thought of the experience (his first sight unseen car buy) and what he thinks may help in a long distance transaction like this

joe_padavano

Unfortunately, this is exactly the problem. When the seller is not completely honest (and sins of omission count as much as outright lying in my book), the deal will not end well.

I worked with a friend years ago on what was supposed to be a 1970 SX. He had purchased the car from a fairly well-known Olds person on the east coast. When I got under the car, there was clearly evidence that the trans crossmember had clearly once been installed in the front (TH350) position. A real SX would only have had a TH400. Yeah, it's possible that a previous owner had once installed a TH350 temporarily (along with the different driveshaft, different e-brake cables, different shift cable bracket), but that's less likely than the alternative in my book.

droptopron

I am said seller. Soren, thanks for your kind words. I tried to be as forthright & honest as I could be. Part of that was driven from getting burnt myself previously. I bought a car that the owner told me had a new trunk floor. Left out that the old rusty one was still underneath it. Seller wasn't much of a car guy and I honestly believe they didn't know what a shyt show it was.
Now on my Cutlass replacement - I had a friend look at it. He gave me a pretty thorough assessment but still missed some stuff. If you go forward remember that there will stuff the seller won't mention, an appraiser or mechanic won't pick up on or stuff you'd miss if you did go yourself to look at it. Ask for a video of the car @ start up with the engine cold and concentrate on the big stuff knowing there will be plenty of little stuff.

JOHNNYOLDS442

Bought many sight unseen. It's always not as nice as you expect.
with that said it wasn't all bad. no choice everything close by is way way way over priced LOL.

tds

Have it looked over before buying!!!

steverw

I bought 2 67 442's, one from Car Traders site I think it was and one off Evil Bay at different times. The first one which im restoring was pretty much as described, It has some issues that I honestly dont think the seller knew about, but things that would have been replaced anyway. I dont think he bought it to restore it but then I dont really know, I think it was a trade or he just bought it to resale and make a buck. All in all its as described, he sent me a ton of pics, we talked on the phone several times, I did have a good feeling about the guy, so im happy with the deal. Cali to Texas $950. But it was a real pain in the A$$ getting it here. Canceled with the first shipper then found another that had it to me pretty quick. Second off of E Bay was actually 2 cars, ones a parts car from Misouri to Tx. was $750. independent shipper. It too was as described. Bought both cars not running and easily got them both running. Did minimal work on the Misouri car, bought some things for it, now its for sale.
So in all not too bad for me, but i can imagine in some cases it could be a real nightmare.

Hurst/Olds 73/74

Hi,

I'll chime in as the buyer of RetroRanger's 1985 442. He lives in Massachusetts and I live in Ohio. I was in the process of selling my 1975 Hurst/Olds on this site (and on CL) when I came across his ad here. I was in high school when the 1985 442 came out and I immediately fell in love with them. I still have the Car & Driver magazine from July 1985, showing the drag test of the 442, Monte SS, and Grand National. So, I've always wanted a G-body 442, but was not in a position to buy a show car. Enter RetroRanger's car.

The main problem was the 10+ hour drive each way to get the car. My brother-in-law was going to a wedding this past weekend in Delaware, so he agreed to hook the trailer to his truck and pick the car up for me if I paid for his gas.

Sorry if I got off track...now about the purchase. I asked the seller a lot of questions about the car and asked for a lot of photos.

1. It is good to ask for photos of all of the rust/damaged areas of the car. A seller will naturally post the most photogenic photos of his car in his ad...he wants to sell his car and wants it to look good to potential buyers. Ask the seller to send you pictures of the WORST areas of the car. This will give you a good idea of what you are getting yourself into. And it sets him up for misrepresentation should he not disclose the fact that the trunk floor has rotted to the pavement, or some other major problem that he didn't photograph for you. Not that I was looking to get RetroRanger in trouble, but was trying to protect myself should this wind up being an obvious scam or misrepresentation upon delivery.

2. Ask for a list of items that do NOT work on the car. Engine, transmission, brakes, exhaust, electrical, A/C, radio, lights, turn signals, etc.... Again, full disclosure or misrepresentation. I don't expect the seller to remember everything not working on a car that needs a full restoration, but the seller should mention if a rod is sticking out the side of the engine block. One of my questions was, "What does the car need to be a dependable driver?" or "What does the car need for me to be able to drive it from Mass. to Ohio?"

3. If you are serious about buying it, keep the seller notified every day or two that you're still interested and in the process of making shipping arrangements, etc. I didn't want RetroRanger to think I was a photo collector.

4. I also asked RetroRanger to send me pictures of the VIN on the title, the VIN on the dash, the VIN on the door jamb decal, and the VIN on the trunk lid decal. This will verify (a) that it's the kind of car (442) that he's representing it to be, (b) that there is a good title to the car he's selling, (c) that the VIN hasn't been switched, making a potential stolen car.
5. I gave my brother-in-law a list of 4 things to physically examine for me before giving the seller the money. (a) make sure the VIN on the car matched the VIN on the title, (b) make sure the back of the title is signed over to me, (c) make sure the car runs and drives in the driveway without any funky engine knocks/noises, and (d) make sure the seller remembered to include the parts that were agreed upon over the phone/texts/emails.

5. Always expect the car to be a LITTLE (not a lot) worse than what you expected.

The photos and lots of questions helped me to understand the exact condition of what I was buying, allowing my transport to focus on very few verifications before making the transaction. It also helped to see that the seller was a member here with lots of previous posts about his Oldsmobiles, lessening the risk of this being a scam. I sure the seller felt better knowing I had been on CO for a while, too.

I was very pleased with my purchase. The car still wears its original paint. It has some dings and scratches, but that's ok. I'll take a little patina any day over a repaint. The interior needs carpet and reupholstered due to fading, and I'll spend some time tracking down electrical gremlins, but I knew that going into the sale. RetroRanger wasn't asking show car prices for this 442 and I didn't expect a show car. The only surprise I found was that the driver's power seat didn't work. I don't remember him mentioning it during our conversations, but I may have forgotten it...or he may not have remembered because he may be a little taller than me and didn't need to move it during the 10 miles he drove it. Either way, that's getting fixed soon so I can reach the petals better. I found that the tires were much better than he described. BTW, I put 23 miles on the car today...and the cruise control even works! Not too shabby!

1st pic is of the July 1985 Car & Driver...the day I fell in love LOL.
2nd pic is of the car leaving RetroRanger's house in Massachusetts
3rd pic is of the car in Ohio
4th pic is of the car at my house.

Hurst/Olds 73/74

Update: The driver's power seat motor is now working! WD-40 is awesome! Also, RetroRanger, I buffed out the paint tonight. The ghost of the "support our troops" ribbon is almost completely invisible and the "I R Grunt" is completely gone. What little oxidation that was on the hood, roof, and trunk lid is also gone. "She puuurdy!"

chip-powell

I bought my '71 "sight unseen". It was mainly because of the distance and the fact that I could not get off work.

It did work out though. First off get him to send you as many pictures (over, under and all around) of the car as humanly possible along with the VIN so that you can research the car's history.

Secondly, have him send you video so that you can hear what the engine sounds like.

Lastly, and most important, do as much research as you can on the seller.

I lucked out in the fact that my seller was a known collector and who sold certain cars on consignment for other people. We were even able to haggle a bit and I got him to include transportation costs into the price.

However, nothing will ever beat being able to physically lay eyes on the car yourself prior to purchase.

GOOD LUCK!

nklemens

I would recommend asking the seller to take it to a local dealership and you will pay to have it checked out. The dealers will do a full 2 hour inspection and tell you everything. Also, there are independent inspectors that will go to the vehicle and give you a full report. Each of these costs less than $200.00 and are well worth it.

I bought my 2001 suburban on ebay and the seller delivered it to a Chevy dealer and they went right through it, said it was perfect and it was. On the contrary I was going to buy a 1997 Audi and the dealer found it was a repaired wreck and fixed poorly and half the stuff did not work on it.

I would not buy any other way unseen. If the seller refuses to do this, you KNOW they are hiding something and walk away.

The independent inspection was great too. It was a 2002 suburban and come to find out it was keyed all the way down one side and touched up. It did not show on the photos the seller posted. Glad I had it done. What a pain it would have been to buy it and find this out.

Best of luck. All told I spent under $500 on all these inspections and it saved me a lot of disappointment.

joe_padavano

Don't get me started...

ALL auto shipping companies are scum, but that's a topic for a different thread.

Don R.

Here is my $.02: I have bought five cars sight unseen, three from Ebay and two from dealers. In all cases I asked for and got many photographs beyond the normal offering and talked directly to the sellers. I also exchanged e-mails with detailed questions and answers in most cases. Results? In four out of 5 cases the car I got was accurately portrayed, in the fifth case I got burned but not due to seller dishonesty. It was my own fault for not asking enough questions due to acting too quickly.


In every case there were things that needed to be fixed on the cars but they were not a surprise. Is it better to inspect and drive before you buy? Absolutely. But if you do your homework you can come out alright as long as you are realistic in your expectations.


I also had all these cars shipped. I skimped on the first one with cheap open shipping and received the car covered with dirt and oil. Lesson learned, all the rest went with enclosed shipping and I had no other problems - you get what you pay for in my experience.

joe_padavano

Enclosed shipping would have been 2X the cost of open for my Vista, and frankly, dirt and oil on a car that needs paint anyway doesn't bother me. The problem is the unfulfilled promises and outright lies from the shippers.

Damn, now you got me started...