cfair

I was in Oakland running errands yesterday, and I dropped by the old Pick’n’Pull self-service yard was still here. In & amongst derelict RV’s It was.

I didn’t have any tools, so it was really more of a random walk.

I made a couple of observations which might be interesting to you all:
1) The era of cars available in the yard was centered on 1998-2010 with a few before and few after that era.

2) The closest I saw to a ‘66 Olds was a 1985 Caddy. It’s not surprising, but the 60’s/70’s stuff is probably another car by now. Or a coffee maker.

3) [size=14px]Almost all modern cars from 1998-2010, except convertibles, have windows built into the door frame. The only reason I mention it is that I’ve been working on quieting my 60’s cars lately and trying to figure out why modern cars are so much quieter. [/size]
[size=14px] [/size][size=14px]My observations from yesterday: [/size]
[size=14px] A) Manufacturers from Benz to GM & most others are putting windows in doors frames, allowing for tighter window to window-frame tolerances & less noise. The windows also overlap the seals by a good 3/8”-7/16” inch. Pillarless coupes (like my ‘66 Starfire) are rare. Moreover the seals between the doors & car bodies are generally sealed with 2 bulb seals - one on the body, one on the door. The bulbs seal against each other allowing for manufacturing variance better than they did in the 60’s. [/size]
[size=14px] B) After 2000 or so, manufacturers filled panel-to-body voids with custom shaped styrofoam to reduce noise with light weight. My latter day Audi has this under the carpets and it’s very quiet. This was a good advancement - quieter car, but barely measurable additional weight. [/size]
[size=14px] C) Manufacturing tolerances are now metric allowing for a lower effort higher level of precision than GM did back in the day. Going through my old cars, I have the impression that at least with body & trim GM’s general tolerance was to the closest 1/8” or maybe 1/16” if they got careful. [/size]

[size=14px]I more or less gave up the self-service boneyards in the 90’s since the 60’s Olds had mostly been crushed. This easy side trip was just a crack at seeing if there’s any reason to start going again. Nope. The 60’s parts cars are gone. Unless you’re into adapting metric, modern or other stuff to your old car, or want to check out the stock, not much point in chasing parts there anymore.

Both happy and sad at the outcome, perhaps this interests some of you.

Cheers
Chris[/size]

Rallye469

They are definitely quieter with the windows rolled up.
But I can have a conversation with my passenger at 60mph with both windows rolled down in my 70.
not getting blown around either.

70W-32

Measure the glass thickness, front door glass on newer cars is generally thicker. They call it Acoustic glass

Koda

This is true. My Tacoma puts you in the blast with windows down; my 73 Econoline does not.

Oldsguy

Perhaps some of the observations made were also a result of safety considerations whether mandated or done by free will with a secondary benefit of noise reductions. Having windows secured all around by frames, and not designing pilllarless coupes sound like safety durability moves to me but I may be wrong. I have recently been in some wrecking yards as well and have discovered the same thing you did, all the old stuff is gone, not surprisingly but sadly.

Olds64

You might check to see if that Pick&Pull has an app. The local self-service salvage yard in OKC has an app that sends me alerts whenever Oldsmobiles that I'm interested in arrive (mostly 92+ H & C bodies).

acavagnaro

Alot of the things you see on 'newer' (20-30 years old now) cars are the result of engineers chasing aerodynamic improvements which translate directly into fuel economy savings. This has been necessary to meet ever tightening government regulations. Thinner sheet-metal, thinner glass, reduced panel gaps, etc. all translate to weight savings and fuel economy. On the flip side, safety regulations push vehicle mass in the opposite direction. That's why cars continue to get ridiculously heavy compared to their 50 year old counterparts.
NVH has improved dramatically over the years. The foam fillers you mention used behind body panels is a big part of that. Some solutions to NVH problems are creative (solving root cause of noise) and others, even though effective, are more of a band-aid solution that just masks the noise (foam). I can tell you from personal experience that NVH is one of the last things to be evaluated on new vehicle launches. At that point, there isn't much time to investigate root cause of noise problems. Sometimes you get lucky, but most of the time you end up with the band-aid fix for launch.

Oldsguy

What is NVH?

cfair

Automotive journalist abbreviation for Noise, Vibration & Harshness