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So I just started watching the live auctions at Scottsdale w/ Barrett Jackson. I think folks are hanging on to their Oldsmobiles not many on the block. Holy crap people sure spend the bucks for complete done restored originals and restore-mods
My brother's working down there this week and sent me photos of this car, scheduled to go across the block tomorrow. 1972 442 W-30 Convertible from the Moray Keith collection.
My brother's working down there this week and sent me photos of this car, scheduled to go across the block tomorrow. 1972 442 W-30 Convertible from the Moray Keith collection.
Talk about a fun job. Thanks for sharing, I would go out there someday just to see operation of it all.
He's enjoying it. Gave up his career as a Charted Accountant a few years back to go to work at a high end restoration shop. The cars that go through the shop are just jaw dropping and he's enjoying working on them. It's opened the door to a lot of opportunities for him including this one.
I’ve been to a few large collector car auctions, and when you strip away the overly aggressive salesmanship and pomp and circumstance - there are some very nice cars to appreciate.
Much like going to your favorite dealership, in the 70s, or today - while trying to ignore the salesman.
And to those considering attending any of these auctions, enjoy the cars prior to the time they run under the lights, “on the block” with the auctioneer blabbering away.
The pre-inspection tent, or the large auditorium where the cas are housed prior to being sold, is wonderful place to be.
I saw the '70 442 convertible selling for 121K. Beautiful car. Fully restored, factory air convertible. John Staluppi bought the car. When John Staluppi goes after a car, you can't outbid him.....
I think he has more 442's than my Oldsmobile dealer had on the showroom floor and on order in 1970!
Tomorrow (Saturday) at Barrett Jackson you’ll see 4 convertible 442s cross the block.
And there was a 1970 yellow convertible from yesterday sell at 121k including buyers premium.
The '71 442, factory air, 4 speed convertible. What color blue? Is the color Viking blue? Sorry, I'm a dinosaur and I have no idea how to use Facebook.
And to those considering attending any of these auctions, enjoy the cars prior to the time they run under the lights, “on the block” with the auctioneer blabbering away.
The pre-inspection tent, or the large auditorium where the cas are housed prior to being sold, is wonderful place to be.
Like being a kid in a candy store!
Perzactly! I go to the Mecum auction when it is in Dallas. Usually on Thursday of auction week. All the cars generally there by then. There just aren't many venues out there that you can see hundreds of classic cars, across all brands and conditions...for $ 20 - $ 30. Well, $ 50, if you include parking.
The classic car market is finicky, at best. Especially these noted auctions. I am surprised at how cheap some cars go for AND how high others sale for. One of the interesting things I have seen, more than a few times, is that some people (sellers) that are reselling cars bought at B / J, or Mecum, consider the car more valuable. "A Mecum car!". OK? That just tells me they paid a 10% premium over the gavel price.
The OP piqued my interest so I looked at a couple of the BIG consignment houses. Gateway has near 100 Oldsmobiles listed across the country, of all shapes and sizes. So, it surprises me a bit that you don't see more of them at the auctions. StreetSide shows about 40.
The whole Barrett-Jackson thing is beginning to disgust me. The only cars that seem to have any mass appeal anymore are butchered "restomods" because the old guys who buy them (not car guys) want the cars they remember from their youth , except all loaded up with modern conveniences and bells 'n' whistles. The values of authentic musclecars continue to wilt as their geriatric audience dies off and the millennials pursue electronic gadgetry because cars aren't "woke".
One of the commentators put it succinctly, saying something to the effect that he was seeing perfect older NCRS-type restorations of mid-year Corvettes being cut up and restomodded because they'd fetch more money that way.
I guess it diminishes the supply, though, so eventually the values will go back up. And in the meantime, if there are any true musclecar fans left, it makes the hobby more affordable for them.
The whole Barrett-Jackson thing is beginning to disgust me. The only cars that seem to have any mass appeal anymore are butchered "restomods" because the old guys who buy them (not car guys) want the cars they remember from their youth , except all loaded up with modern conveniences and bells 'n' whistles. The values of authentic musclecars continue to wilt as their geriatric audience dies off and the millennials pursue electronic gadgetry because cars aren't "woke".
One of the commentators put it succinctly, saying something to the effect that he was seeing perfect older NCRS-type restorations of mid-year Corvettes being cut up and restomodded because they'd fetch more money that way.
I guess it diminishes the supply, though, so eventually the values will go back up. And in the meantime, if there are any true musclecar fans left, it makes the hobby more affordable for them.
I agree with everything you said with one caveat...I have an appreciation for all of these cars, including clones, rat rods, jumping cars, etc. Not that I would own them as I lean heavy toward matching #s type cars...with engine enhancements
Someone put a lot of thought, energy and $$$ in their cars. Built, or bought. No matter how it shakes out, they have blood in the game.
Look at how diversified Jay Leno's collection is. If I had his money...and a reasonable wife … my collection would be as diverse as his. I just have an affinity for these things.
I'd consider going to an auction for a car, but the problem is the car will probably not be quite right, and I won't have time to be picky.
I turned down a restored 72 HO convertible a couple years back. Dude wanted like 80k in cash, and the car was a low #2 car, if that. Heater core leaked, lots of pitting under the chassis repaint, etc. Finally figured out it was a FL beach car, weird chassis pitting pattern, not like a rust belt car.
PALM BEACH, Florida — “We’re very selective on the cars here. I don’t like any pieces of s***, excuse my language,” John Staluppi, a reasonable approximation of a sturdier Robert De Niro, says in his Brooklyn accent. “I’m not that much about history and all that stuff. I’m more about I want the car to look nice, drive nice.”
We’re walking through an enthusiast’s paradise that Staluppi, born in 1947, calls his Cars of Dreams, built into roughly half of a nondescript West Palm Beach, Florida, strip mall he purchased primarily to house his extensive collection of automobiles. A casual passerby has no idea of the four-wheeled treasures inside the roughly 60,000-square-foot space. With its Coney Island theme, accented by a Brooklyn Bridge and Manhattan skyline motif along the back wall, this isn’t just a place to gawk at old cars—there’s an entire town to explore.
Good article. Thank you. John Staluppi sold his collection about a year ago at Barrett Jackson. The other day at Barrett Jackson, Scottsdale, he outbid everyone, 121K with fees, in order to obtain the 442 convertible that he wanted. He can not be outbid if he wants a car. He also likes boats and donates a lot of money to charity.
If he's attending Barrett-Jackson's tonight (Saturday) the 442 convertibles will have a new owner- John Staluppi.
Last edited by twilightblue28A; January 18th, 2020 at 04:52 PM.
Good article. Thank you. John Staluppi sold his collection about a year ago at Barrett Jackson. The other day at Barrett Jackson, Scottsdale, he outbid everyone, 121K with fees, in order to obtain the 442 convertible that he wanted. He can not be outbid if he wants a car. He also likes boats and donates a lot of money to charity.
If he's attending Barrett-Jackson's tonight (Saturday) the 442 convertibles will have a new owner- John Staluppi.
He may not be there I stumbled on this info earlier, looks like he is selling part of his collection at another venue...
My wife and I took a weekend trip to Phoenix last weekend and went to this auction last Saturday, one of the Preview days, just to see the cars. I took lots of photos and have kept track of the Oldsmobiles I saw and what they sold for. All but three that I saw (I'm sure I didn't see every Olds to be sold as some cars were still arriving) have sold, and the prices are in the list. The first column has the lot number, and you can search the Barrett-Jackson site to see photos of the cars if interested.
Note that the descriptions are as Barrett-Jackson has them, inaccuracies included. For example, the top one is described as a "Cutlass 442". I don't think 442s were actually called that in 1970 as the 442 was its own model line. Note that lot 194 is a "442 Re-Creation." At least they're honest
Here are some photos of the top seller (so far), lot 1010. Almost $140,000 for this car.
Lot 1441: 1971, 442 W30, factory air, convertible, W27 rear axle cover, sold for $ 77,700. excluding fees. The car was described as heavily optioned. I was unable to determine whether the car was a 4 speed or an automatic. (too many commercials)
My wife and I took a weekend trip to Phoenix last weekend and went to this auction last Saturday, one of the Preview days, just to see the cars. I took lots of photos and have kept track of the Oldsmobiles I saw and what they sold for. All but three that I saw (I'm sure I didn't see every Olds to be sold as some cars were still arriving) have sold, and the prices are in the list. The first column has the lot number, and you can search the Barrett-Jackson site to see photos of the cars if interested.
Note that the descriptions are as Barrett-Jackson has them, inaccuracies included. For example, the top one is described as a "Cutlass 442". I don't think 442s were actually called that in 1970 as the 442 was its own model line. Note that lot 194 is a "442 Re-Creation." At least they're honest
Here are some photos of the top seller (so far), lot 1010. Almost $140,000 for this car.
Lot 1441: 1971, 442 W30, factory air, convertible, W27 rear axle cover, sold for $ 77,700. excluding fees. The car was described as heavily optioned. I was unable to determine whether the car was a 4 speed or an automatic. (too many commercials)
I just returned from BJ, lot 1141 was a fully loaded W30 with auto, air, cruise and many other options. It presented very well. I think this is the same car I saw sold at Rosso and Steele about 5-6years ago for $130K. Someone got a bargain.
Lot 1441: 1971, 442 W30, factory air, convertible, W27 rear axle cover, sold for $ 77,700. excluding fees. The car was described as heavily optioned. I was unable to determine whether the car was a 4 speed or an automatic. (too many commercials)
I just returned from BJ, lot 1141 was a fully loaded W30 with auto, air, cruise and many other options. It presented very well. I think this is the same car I saw sold at Rosso and Steele about 5-6years ago for $130K. Someone got a bargain.
TS
I have no idea whether or not lot 1441 sold at Russo and Steele about 5-6 years ago. I can find out when my friend returns from Scottsdale auctions. I agree the car presented well. The car was heavily documented. I agree someone got a great deal.
This car sold Saturday, the day bringing the greatest selling prices. Maybe the successful bidder was prepared to spend $150K. John Staluppi wasn't in attendance Saturday to bid. Without competiting bidders, the estimated price seemed to fall flat of the purchase price.
Last edited by twilightblue28A; January 19th, 2020 at 09:46 AM.
The whole Barrett-Jackson thing is beginning to disgust me. The only cars that seem to have any mass appeal anymore are butchered "restomods" because the old guys who buy them (not car guys) want the cars they remember from their youth , except all loaded up with modern conveniences and bells 'n' whistles. The values of authentic musclecars continue to wilt as their geriatric audience dies off and the millennials pursue electronic gadgetry because cars aren't "woke".
The reality is the purists crowd (now in the 60's and 70's) are dying off. When the muscle car era peaked in 1968-1972, the then teenagers and young adults, are now pushing in their 70's. So the collection market is changing to reflect that. It's part of life.
The people bidding and buying in their 30's and 40's and are part of the second generation, wealthy adults who want the looks of the early muscle car era but want modern performance (more HP, better brakes, suspension, reliability, electronics, overdrive transmissions, etc). That is where the hobby is going and Barrett Jackson is merely reflecting where the money is going. BJ doesn't control the market, they merely represent and auction the market. The market is controlled by the money and buyers.
It is true that as the "geriatric audience dies off" the demand for the authentic to the nut and bolt muscle cars, will continue to lose its audience and buyers. Most of the remaining purist cars are not even driven on the street. They are trailer queens and museum showpieces that are trailered from auction to auction, only to sit inside someones garage museum, never to see the open roads.
I look at it this way. Life is short. Who gives a cr*p whether a NOS bracket is installed with the correct color and overspray? None of that matters when your dead and worms are feasting on your corpse. Give me the keys to a car that is reliable and street worthy and I will drive it and enjoy it. Rock chips, road tar and all.
The reality is the purists crowd (now in the 60's and 70's) are dying off. When the muscle car era peaked in 1968-1972, the then teenagers and young adults, are now pushing in their 70's. So the collection market is changing to reflect that. It's part of life.
The people bidding and buying in their 30's and 40's and are part of the second generation, wealthy adults who want the looks of the early muscle car era but want modern performance (more HP, better brakes, suspension, reliability, electronics, overdrive transmissions, etc). That is where the hobby is going and Barrett Jackson is merely reflecting where the money is going. BJ doesn't control the market, they merely represent and auction the market. The market is controlled by the money and buyers.
It is true that as the "geriatric audience dies off" the demand for the authentic to the nut and bolt muscle cars, will continue to lose its audience and buyers. Most of the remaining purist cars are not even driven on the street. They are trailer queens and museum showpieces that are trailered from auction to auction, only to sit inside someones garage museum, never to see the open roads.
I look at it this way. Life is short. Who gives a cr*p whether a NOS bracket is installed with the correct color and overspray? None of that matters when your dead and worms are feasting on your corpse. Give me the keys to a car that is reliable and street worthy and I will drive it and enjoy it. Rock chips, road tar and all.
couldn't have been said any better. in a few years the next gereration will think oldsmobiles and pontiacs were first gen computers and couldn't care ledd
for perspective - when I was in High School 70-74 if I wanted to drive a 50 year old car it would have been a 1920 something - LOL x 2
that shows how far over the hill (?) me and my 69 are +- -- I have much more respect for a 69 today than I ever did back in the day - be it for the nostalgia or nice lines or what ever, and not being a fanatic about originality today makes for a much more economical fun ride - there's always something better but that's not where my interests lie
I agree it's sad to see a nice car get chopped up into a retro - resto - mod -- glad to say that's not my thing - nor is buying a 2020 ZL1
"The Times They Are A Changin"
"At Least I'm Enjoying MY Ride"
When I bought my 72 V code 442 I was 16 years old. I didn’t know it was apparently only one of 77, I just loved the look, and loved to drive it. I didn’t mind so much when the water pump went, or the starter conked out, or when the choke didn’t choke. Or when I blew up the rear trying to show off doing a massive burn out in my high school parking lot. Or when I took off the original intake and QJ to slap on an Edelbrock intake and Holley DP, and in retrospect had little to no idea what I was doing - I had enthusiasm, free time, and a very young body.
Or when the clutch needed replacing, or when the shift linkage attachment broke off the Muncie case. I had friends, and time, and a young body, and creative workarounds.
Flash forward 40 years - I own a 442 that’s mostly original, retored, and something I can drive and enjoy - not burning up the clutch (th400!) or the rear, not street racing, just cruising. Fortunately not my daily driver, perhaps like many on here. Something to enjoy fantastic adolescent memories, and tinker with occasionally.
But when my restored original needs another restoration in 10, 15 or 20 years, I will consider resto mod. I didn’t buy it thinking of the next buyer - but by then I will be. And the next buyer probably won’t want originality so much as comfort, convenience and dependability. In fact in 20 years the next buyer will probably never have seen an original 68 to 72 442 in person.
Who knows, maybe I will decide to keep it original - either way I’ll have more fun memories to take to the grave - because when it’s all said and done, sometimes all we have left are memories.
Last edited by vCode442; January 24th, 2020 at 05:27 PM.
It is true that as the "geriatric audience dies off" the demand for the authentic to the nut and bolt muscle cars, will continue to lose its audience and buyers. Most of the remaining purist cars are not even driven on the street. They are trailer queens and museum showpieces that are trailered from auction to auction, only to sit inside someones garage museum, never to see the open roads.
I look at it this way. Life is short. Who gives a cr*p whether a NOS bracket is installed with the correct color and overspray? None of that matters when your dead and worms are feasting on your corpse. Give me the keys to a car that is reliable and street worthy and I will drive it and enjoy it. Rock chips, road tar and all.
Hope "the exact starter shim person" is listening. "Exact part" doesn't mean a damn thing after we are dead and gone.
Hope "the exact starter shim person" is listening. "Exact part" doesn't mean a damn thing after we are dead and gone.
That's funny but sadly true. They argue and fuss over things like over spray and stupid NOS shims. Spending months and years, chasing NOS brake light parts, instead of driving and enjoying the car.
I would rather be out cruising and having a fun time. Let them waste away years of precious life debating and fussing over stupidity like that. I'll be out cruising and creating memories.
Last edited by pettrix; January 22nd, 2020 at 02:38 PM.
couldn't have been said any better. in a few years the next gereration will think oldsmobiles and pontiacs were first gen computers and couldn't care ledd
Funny you should say that. Most teenagers and 20 something people I run into, have no idea what an Oldsmobile is. I bet the same is true or Pontiacs, although the Pontiac brand survived a little longer than Oldsmobile did.
Ironically, GM didn't give two sh*ts about Olds or Pontiac when they shut the brands down. Olds division didn't even care enough to save the records of the older cars. They claim it burned in Lansing but other sources state that Oldsmobile division just threw out all the old records as it was too much effort to save and log them.
There are many younger people who want original condition cars...
Not true. The auctions clearly show a major change has been taking place in the 60's and early 70's muscle car sales in the past 10 years.
Early 20's and 30 year old people have their own muscle car era today. You can get brand new 700HP+ vehicles from Chevy, Dodge and Ford. The vehicles are fast, handle great, stop on a dime, have tons of modern electronics, can reach insane triple digit speeds, and still sit in daily traffic and get good gas & highway mileage. These people could care less about a numbers matching 1970 vehicle that handles & stops like a barge in water and runs with a carburetor.
I attend dozens of classic car shows each year. The guys with the original condition 60's and 70's muscle cars are also in their 60's and 70's. Most leave the show before the sun goes down. The younger crowds then come in with their imports (not a fan but I respect the scene) and modern muscle cars (Camaro's, Corvette's, Demon's, Mustangs) and hang out until midnight. It's about fuel injection, turbo's, superchargers and computer tuning. That is the future. They youth of today is the future and that is the scene. They have the $$ and they will determine the future of the scene and auctions. One thing is for sure, it won't be a 50 year old vehicle that is in original condition. They could care less about that.
Last edited by pettrix; January 22nd, 2020 at 04:17 PM.
January 17th, 2020, 03:52 PM
… my collection would be as diverse as his. I just have an affinity for these things.
