bad ignition switch?
June 19th, 2015, 07:14 PM
#1
bad ignition switch?
I am stumped. I drove the olds for 3 weeks and no issues. today it cranked and with no fire I tried new gas no fire I checked the battery full and new 13.1 and almost 9.1 under load. the booster solenoid had a wobbly terminal I replaced that. no crank after I ran a continuity light through the cable to the starter and it shows continuity. I checked the voltage at the input side of the solenoid 11.29 thats ok. I tried cranking and the meter shows no voltage or continuity on the s terminal . I have had a weird year what do you think switch? I want to fix this so I can salvage this summer. by the way the post to the starter also shows no continuity or voltage reading period cranked or not. I also have all lights dash etc. I always appreciate someone with more experience then me.
June 19th, 2015, 07:42 PM
#2
Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Poteau, Ok
Posts: 40,793
If it does not crank, check for battery voltage on the S terminal (purple wire) when the key is in the start position. If not check the neutral safety switch. If it does crank and won't fire, then check for voltage at the coil +.
June 19th, 2015, 07:57 PM
#5
thank you.
I have no voltage reading or continuity coming out of the remote solenoid or s terminal crank position or etc and the remote solenoid was replaced tonight and I had the same issue before it was replaced. I replaced the remote solenoid because its s terminal was wobbly and moving around.
June 19th, 2015, 08:00 PM
#6
Connoisseur d'Junque
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Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
You seem to be saying that the starter motor operated well, and then give us a bunch of improbable readings that couldn't happen if the starter were working.
Why not tell us exactly what happened, and then pull a plug or two and tell us how the spark looks?
- Eric
Why not tell us exactly what happened, and then pull a plug or two and tell us how the spark looks?
- Eric
June 19th, 2015, 08:09 PM
#8
I have no other info to give guys 11.29 in with positive cable and zero out key on or crank position and the s terminal and positive wire to starter were checked again crank position or key on and 2nd terminal of the remote solenoid that is new and has very solid grounds. either way no voltage reading through the new solenoid with solid new connections and no corrosion. I do not need the I side of the solenoid. I have a direct hook up with my ignition box to the battery cable input post. I have all new equipment and it is new period. I am stumped is it the ignition switch or neutral safety thry are new and were functioning ellcent for a couple years till today.
June 19th, 2015, 08:16 PM
#11
I cranked the car with 10 second bursts 8 to 10 times and then even with a fully charged battery it would not spin after. I had not engine fire when cranking now even with a fully charged battery and a new remote solenoid like a ford set up i get no sound and no crank.
June 19th, 2015, 08:19 PM
#13
I also get no output from the remote solenoid period key on or cranking position and the old remote solenoid had the same symptoms. it acted like a bad solenoid with no click when the battery was full charged.
June 19th, 2015, 08:24 PM
#16
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I am assuming that you have a F_rd starter solenoid mounted to the firewall or fender, which is connected to the starter, and to the stock starter solenoid.
Since this is a non-stock setup, it would be helpful if you could provide a schematic so that we understand your setup unambiguously.
It sounds as though you are saying that applying +12V to the trigger terminal of the F_rd solenoid is not making anything happen - how about applying it directly to the stock solenoid?
- Eric
Since this is a non-stock setup, it would be helpful if you could provide a schematic so that we understand your setup unambiguously.
It sounds as though you are saying that applying +12V to the trigger terminal of the F_rd solenoid is not making anything happen - how about applying it directly to the stock solenoid?
- Eric
June 19th, 2015, 08:27 PM
#19
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Is your starter using the stock extra attachment bracket to the block?
Corrosion between the aluminum nosepiece and the block or the starter case, or excess paint, can cause problems like this.
This may be a case where you need to drop the starter, test it off the car, then work backward from there.
- Eric
Corrosion between the aluminum nosepiece and the block or the starter case, or excess paint, can cause problems like this.
This may be a case where you need to drop the starter, test it off the car, then work backward from there.
- Eric
June 19th, 2015, 08:30 PM
#20
I have no way of uploading pictures that is something i have to look into. I have a positive cable battery cable to the ford solenoid and then to the starter solenoid on the starter.
June 19th, 2015, 08:39 PM
#23
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Okay, it would be good to ensure 0Ω continuity between the starter case and the engine block, just to be sure.
Next, it would be fair to be sure that the starter spins when asked to:
• Disconnect the jumper from the stock solenoid S terminal to the heavy starter cable,
• Attach a jumper wire to the S terminal, so you can touch it to the battery (+) terminal when you need to,
• Attach the heavy wires between the battery and the starter to the same stud on the F_rd starter (either one is fine - you're bypassing the solenoid),
• Now touch the wire from the S terminal to the (+) battery post and see if the starter turns.
- Eric
Next, it would be fair to be sure that the starter spins when asked to:
• Disconnect the jumper from the stock solenoid S terminal to the heavy starter cable,
• Attach a jumper wire to the S terminal, so you can touch it to the battery (+) terminal when you need to,
• Attach the heavy wires between the battery and the starter to the same stud on the F_rd starter (either one is fine - you're bypassing the solenoid),
• Now touch the wire from the S terminal to the (+) battery post and see if the starter turns.
- Eric
June 20th, 2015, 07:08 AM
#25
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That's why I suggested taking the heavy wire from A and screwing it onto B (or vice-versa).
- Eric
June 20th, 2015, 07:47 AM
#27
I am not sure if this posted computer issues today. 2 gauge welding cables period almost zero resistance. battery in the trunk positive to one side of the remote solenoid all wires ignition switch and neutral safey switch normal hook ups. no use of the I terminal. all grounds solid no rust. opposite side of the remote solenoid to ro==c starter and properly hooked and it worked for the last 3 weeks. I will again put a alligator clip from the s terminal to the starter itself at the main junction to check if the starter is ok. I will connect both heavy cables to the same side and touch the alligator clip to that also and check for operation today. I will check back tonioght 830 or so for results.
June 20th, 2015, 02:36 PM
#28
eric are you online. I put both heavy cables on the live post and the starter cranked and I did not have to connect the s terminal at all for it to crank just turned on the cut off switch to the battery.
June 20th, 2015, 02:43 PM
#29
now that I know the starter turns that is fantastic,no rerouting of cables or gasket replacement on the header. I also cleaned all seen or unseen dirt or possible corrosion on the starter period plus the cable ends thouroughly. I tried the key after cleaning and had no cranking. now the question stands neutral switch or ignition switch?
June 20th, 2015, 03:05 PM
#30
eric once again thank you for this info electrical work is gift I might be in the body end but most guys I see do not know what you know in mechanical were you a heavy mechanic before and if so you should be a advisor in this specialty area. I learned my trade the hard way and schooling on my own with no help from zip. I believe in being the best you can be at anything and there is always something to be learned from more experienced people and everyone should respect that information. it comes with hard knocks also believe me I put the time in for hard knocks and bled for it seriously I have no problem with getting my hands cut or dirty. thank you, this car is my idea of what they should have been fast,functional excellent braking and solid handling just like new cars and a classic look to boot and comfortable and dependable and fun it just takes real thought process across the line and different experiences from different areas of the trade combined.
June 20th, 2015, 03:13 PM
#31
i hope that this is just a switch i will check back at 830pm tonight like i originally said i was just hoping that i could get the proper switch in by tonight and salvage this weekend, maybe racing and fishing around Byron i am not trying to be a pest i race for our make and prove it the way rip joe mondello did it, I have 1 of his last short blocks built by him.
June 20th, 2015, 03:15 PM
#32
same but different
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Central Missouri
Posts: 2,873
I don't exactly know what you are working on. I'll throw this out there... It might be NSS related.
IF this car was an automatic on the column, try moving the shifter bell where the column meets the dash. Jiggle it around and rotate the key at the same time.
Or try starting in neutral instead of park. What happens?
IF this car was an automatic on the column, try moving the shifter bell where the column meets the dash. Jiggle it around and rotate the key at the same time.
Or try starting in neutral instead of park. What happens?
June 20th, 2015, 03:19 PM
#33
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
yes, one or the other
Or the wiring between
You need to get juice thru ign switch and NSS while in "start" position.
While checking for volts in/out at the I.S. and NSS, look for obvious brown burned or melted issues.
I gather that if you bypass the ign switch and NSS by jumpering A to S at the Ferd solenoid then the solenoid clicks and the starter cranks.
Or the wiring between
You need to get juice thru ign switch and NSS while in "start" position.
While checking for volts in/out at the I.S. and NSS, look for obvious brown burned or melted issues.
I gather that if you bypass the ign switch and NSS by jumpering A to S at the Ferd solenoid then the solenoid clicks and the starter cranks.
June 20th, 2015, 03:49 PM
#34
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Location: Poteau, Ok
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Ok, now put the cables back where they belong and as Octania said jumper the A or B terminal (which ever side of that solenoid that has power) to the S terminal and see if the starter cranks. If it does then your problem is between it and possibly the neutral safety switch or the ignition switch. To isolate the neutral safety switch just jumper the 2 purple wires at the neutral safety switch and then turn the key. If it still does not crank then check to see if you have power at the ignition switch.
June 20th, 2015, 04:49 PM
#35
Connoisseur d'Junque
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Sorry I haven't been able to respond - I've been in a college "orientation" for Junior.
I'll be in the road now for about 3 hours, then I may have time to check in before sleep, and then work in the morning.
Sounds like Eric has this well under control.
- Eric
I'll be in the road now for about 3 hours, then I may have time to check in before sleep, and then work in the morning.
Sounds like Eric has this well under control.
- Eric
June 20th, 2015, 06:17 PM
#36
eric I gather that after I check the power between the polarized side of the solenoid and s terminal that the 2 switches neutral or ignition could be bad? is there anything else to check the starter cranked today and it would not fire before the no crank situation and thank you I want to ride again soon. I did not hook up the crane ignition for voltage spike purposes but ut still would not fire before either. the crane box has no issues it shows through a process that it is receiving signal or spark.
June 20th, 2015, 06:28 PM
#38
I replaced all of the wiring switches included about 12 years ago and had no problems since then but the car had to sit for a while due to a medical issue. I had and beat the big c. my time could still be ticking maybe yes maybe no let it roll and go with a good looking corpse if so that **** did not slow me down as much as possible. This is my baby and I vowed to ride and race until the end. my extreme machine.
June 20th, 2015, 07:01 PM
#39
if this is any help the wheel would not lock consistently since this problem and the car would fire before the no crank situation yesterday and shut off after a minute or 2. just more food for thought and I cannot get a switch for around 2 weeks the usual wait time for quality . thanks guys a community of knowledge and shared is priceless and we all through this community can have excellence across the line with minimal expenditure.
