gbodyfan

I need some help on a car i bought. I bought it from my dad who is going threw bankruptcy. Its a 1964 impala its been around since i was a kid. I paid 3000 for it cash it is mine. Not given to me my hard earned money. State says they think the car is worth 5000 and i have to give them $2000 or turn the car over. Or if i dont do that they i will have a case a against me to collect funds owed.

I need help it says i can get my own appraisal and foward it to there office. The car needs a new motor it overheats and always has. Paint inst the greatest has some rust bubbles starting. The way i read it is if it appraises for what i bought it for i might be ok.

vette442

Why would you have to give the state $2000? I could see them maybe making you pay the sales tax on the difference between $3000 and a $5000 valuation. At 7%, that's an extra $140. That just doesn't sound right....

allyolds68

If your dad had already filed bankruptcy when you bought the can I can see why they would question the value. If you bought it before he filed I doubt they can do anything.

ziff396

Why is the state even involved? I am not a lawyer, however I have been through this quite awile ago. The judge in your case decides on these things. If you bought it less than 12 months ago in Michigan, it can be included in the case. Title in your name or not. Just trying to help.

gearheads78

You need to give more details of why the state is involved. Is it state back taxes he owed and he sold property they were about to seize ???

gbodyfan

Just filing for chapter 7 i think is what the letter said. His attn told him they go back and look at everything sold in the previous year. They think the car is worth 5000 he sold it to me for $3000 therefore they say i owe another $2000 the pay his debtors.

Its basically no different then you buying a car and the government saying i dont think you paid enough for the car you owe us more money

Its not unpaid taxes its credit card bs.

No trying to hide anything from the court. My dad hasnt touched the car in easily 12 years. Needed money i bought the car.

bdub217

That's just greed at it's finest. I honestly can say I'm not happy at all with how our world works, too much BS. I wish you the best of luck with this. Keep us updated please, You can hide the car at my house if need be. =)

jerseymike

have it appraised...will cost about $150.00. it will be the best way to get them out of your hair.

"explain" to the appraiser what the circumstances are when he is there, not over the phone.

A good appraiser will provide a good detailed profile of the car and all it's problems. You "could" find out you "overpaid".

good luck

MDchanic

Unless you can get an appraisal that they believe you'll probably have to give them $2,000 or the car.

As far as they're concerned your father sold you the car cheap in order to protect it from the bankruptcy proceeding, which is a crime.

- Eric

fourtwenty

Can you get a couple appraisals done to satisfy all parties?

Highwayman

Sadly I think you're right Eric. Pardon my language, but this crap pisses me off. ********!

They hope you realize it will cost you more to fight them then it does just to just fork over 2 grand and you'll just pay up. If you hand over the car they only need to sell it for $2K to get what they want. And they have lawyers guns and money to come after you. In my opinion it's extortion and if one of us tried it we'd go to jail.

I'm tempted to tell you to tell them if they want $2K because they claim it's worth $5K, then give you $3K and come get it. And call the local TV stations. Is the judge up for election in November? There's probably a reason why I've been in trouble so much so it's probably a bad idea.

1969w3155

A car appraiser is the way to go.

67cutlass67GS

Sounds like good old Obama trying to share everyone elses wealth again...I say its none of their damn business like always...

DeltaPace77

I live in MI, and know when you register a car within the family, nobody says anything, and are no taxes. Surely, yours is more about the bankruptcy, but doubt anybodies taking anything over $2000 bucks, as to much hassle. Strange how anyone found out about this, as maybe you didn't handle it right. If paying him cash, and registering the car in your name right away, should be good. Unless the state had a legal freeze on all of his assets. Keep the car locked in a garage, meantime.

Aceshigh

Here's MY suggestion.
Get some a signed bill of sale, as well as proof that you paid the $3,000 in cash.
Get an appraisal for the car that shows it's value @ $3,000 or less. Fight it in court.
You should have the ability to sue if these ****** "Steal" your property back.
However, without the above 2 mentioned pieces of proof......it won't look good.
Oh yes they can.

Up to 2 years (IIRC) prior to a bankruptcy all sales can be called into question.
Especially those to Family members.
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encycloped...ankruptcy.html

This is because the state believes all BK's people try to hide assets with family
members by putting them into their names. Whether they sold it legitimately or not.
So unfortunately for him, he's going to get screwed most likely.

His father may or may not have known this, but you can't hide or sell
assets to family before a BK without them being called into question.

I think this is BS personally and shouldn't be legal, because his son has
nothing to do with the BK and is officially the NEW LEGAL OWNER of the vehicle.

The court system however ALLOWS extortion by the debt collectors/banks to recover
assets that have nothing to do with the claims these agencies have against his father.

It's the Federal Mafia though......they can do whatever they want.
Banks run the country........

jerseymike

the only thing gbodyfan did wrong was he tried to do the right thing by his dad and help him out.

if the car is in as rough condition as he says it is, if he had paid dad $500.00-$700.00 for the car on paper, I'd have to guess it wouldn't be an issue. Now that it shows the car sold for (to his son) for $3k and the beancounters see on paper NADA Bluebook or whatever their guideline is the car has a value range of $5k, they want their money.

Take pictures of the car,including the VIN. Use real film if possible so they don't suggest you used a computer to fake anything.

have it appraised and as fourtwenty suggested maybe more than one.

what kind of Impala is it? maybe some on here can point you in the right direction for online valuations.

get your ducks in a row and document everything on the car good and bad so if you go in front of a judge he'll (hopefully) see you're being straight w/ him and not trying to pull a fast one.

69442C

Did the state come out to personally inspect the car or send an appriaser out to see it? I'm sure they didn't. Given that, how would they know if the car is worth what they claim? Just because some book says a certain car would be worth X in certain condition doesn't mean the car will sell for that amount, especially when a tough economy exists. And those valuations are just a guide. Like has been stated, get an appraisal and I tend to think you will need at least 2 to satisfy the state/courts.
The thing that would really be insulting would be if the car had been lost to bankruptcy proceedings, the courts would have seen to it that it was sold at an auction and probably would have brought $1000. And the state would have been happy that a fair price was received.

kbdecatur

PLEASE!! Not on here we realize everyone is grown and has the right to express their own opinion but just tring to steer the guy in the right direction.. Those comments are not called for..

gbodyfan

Just standard impala 2dr hard top no fancy options.

The state should have a bill of sale from when the title was transfered.

rocketraider

Well- he's right. It really is none of their damn business, and that goes for ANY political/government entity. It's all about and ONLY about collecting tax money.

The problem I have with this is they are using an arbitrary figure to determine value of the car. If they have not personally inspected the car or had a qualified and competent appraiser do it, they really have no case. They're going by a price guide (probably NADA, which always overvalues old cars) which cannot possibly be accurate for every situation.

Some local governments here tried to do that a few years back when setting personal property tax on old cars and they valued them all as #1 examples. The end result was AACA got behind it and got antique plated cars exempted from PP tax, so the greedy local governments ended up not getting anything. If they hadn't been so greedy...

You really need a lawyer familiar with South Dakota bankruptcy laws to get you out of this mess. A well-placed and worded letter to some of the old car magazines such as Old Cars Weekly can generate enough adverse publicity for the state that they may drop it. My experience has been that government wonks will often back off when their stupidity is exposed to "larger audiences".

gbodyfan

I was gonna talk to my insurance company to get an appraisal

MDchanic

Three things:
One - +1.
Whether you love him, hate him, or really don't give a #&% because politician are all the same, the day to day functioning of the civil court system has nothing to do with the President or any party.

Two - +1.
We can't really help you with this - all we can do is guess.

Three -
I suspect that it isn't actually the state that is looking to get the car, it's the court, as part of a fact-finding process surrounding the bankruptcy case, in which your father is making a case that he has no way to pay all of his bills, and his creditors are making the opposing case that he's got more money than he's saying and they want a piece of it.
In this situation, the state is not doing this on its own, but at the request of your father's creditors.

- Eric

kbdecatur

I agree!!

diesel olds

Its our own fault we keep voting in these parasites that feed off our hard work. the goverment would just destroy the car anyway because it would not be safe enough for some welfare leach to drive around in

1969w3155

Again, that has nothing to do with this persons situation.

MDchanic

The government doesn't give bankruptcy items to welfare leaches.

They give them to corporations through corporate bankruptcy-prosecution lawyers, who may be leaches, but are sure as heck not on welfare. They then sell them to used-car-auction leaches, who sell them to fly-by-night auto "restorer" leaches like the one who sold that crappy Camaro to that guy in Sweden who posted here last year.

- Eric

GreekDog

make sure you let the air out of the tires and lower all the windows. remove the front bumper and the carb and other small easily removable parts. Then bring over the appraiser.

They cant put a high value on a car with missing windows, four flat tires and half the engine and bumpers missing can they?

rocketraider

Yikes. I hadn't thought about that end of it- if they seize it, odds are it will be destroyed as an old, polluting, unsafe clunker. Unless one of those tax-dollar leeches is jonesing for a 64 Impala and sees this as an easy way to score one...

GreekDog may be on to something.

jerseymike

gbodyfan,

try this site;

http://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/HVT/VehicleSearch

it's pretty close to where the appraiser put my car a few years back.

for your model there are many models/options to choose from, but maybe it might help a little

again,good luck and don't sweat this stuff

garys 68

Srtip it, let them take what's left.

jaunty75

There is a lot of mis-directed rage here, and everyone is jumping onboard with sympathy for the OP. Unfortunately, he comes into the picture WELL AFTER the fact. The fact that he's the son of the person who declared bankruptcy is irrelevant.

Remember, the OP's father declared BANKRUPTCY. That means there are people, small businesses, large businesses, whatever who are owed money by this guy and WHO ARE LIKELY NOT GOING TO GET IT. How is it fair to them that the father gets to sell an asset that might very well be worth $5000 or whatever for something less and thus hide it from those to whom he legitimately owes money?

I'm on the side of the state here. You declare bankruptcy, fine, but remember that there are consequences, and there are people out there, as I've said, who have provided a service to you, sold you something, or to whom you owe money for some other reason, and now they're not going to get paid. These people will be hurt through no fault of their own. These people should come FIRST in the distribution of any assets the father has, and that's why the bankruptcy laws are set up the way they are.

Troys Toy 70

One thing to set the record straight, the Bankruptcy law is a Federal code, hence it is FEDERAL COURT, State law or court has nothing to do with it. Section 548, I believe, empowers the trustee, (Judge) to void a fraudulent transfer (transfer of less than value, especially to a related party)up to 2 years prior to the date of filing.
I AM NOT SAYING that the transfer was fraudulent, but that the Trustee is doing what he or she has been charged to do. How the trustee came to that value, I do not know, but unfortunately the trustee has; and you have to prove otherwise.
If it were me, IMHO, I would talk to my attorney.

jaunty75

If the OP is lucky, he and the bankruptcy court can agree on an appraiser, and the appraisal will come in at $3,000 or less. If it's more than $3,000....what are the options? Appeal? No choice but to pay the difference?

Troys Toy 70

I'm not an attorney, just one of those mean old creditors, back in the day; so I don't know the options. Truth be told, it will probably cost $1,000 ($500 for lawyer and $500 to appease the trustee) after everything is said and done. But if everything is on the up and up, I would want to ensure my $3000 initial investment is protected. Hence .... Call an attorney.

gbodyfan

Dont have too the tires are junk and it dont run right anyway. It needs a new motor.

gbodyfan

Thanks

Im tryin not to let it get to me but its exactly like a woman telling you she is prego and the kid might be yours. Its always on my mind it and pisses me off that they can just take my money that easily.

gbodyfan

They said if they valued it at $4000 i owe them $1000. If it gets appraises at $3000 "we'll have to see what they can agree on".

gbodyfan

Yes but my dad dont have anything he is not a crook.

gbodyfan

No misdirected rage here its going in the right direction. I bought the car 3 months before my dad filed for bankruptcy. The only reason they are coming after me is that i am family thier lawyer told me so. If anybody else had bought the car there is nothing they could have done.

That being said my dad is in debt to credit card companies. Too many late fines this and that. It added up couldnt keep up with the payments filled for bankruptcy.

OLDSRALLYE350

You answered your own question family is the key here. Thats where people hide assets to protect them . They sell them at a reduced price give it to them what ever they can do to protect the assets . We all remember seeing this florida guy adopting his girl friend to protect his money http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nationa...tas2eSLyGooQZM . Im sure this wasnt his intention selling you the car but the court doesnt know and acts accordingly . You see similar examples of hiding assets to protect them in the news all the time . Even guys who dont want to pay child support do it. They may buy a new car and put it in their girl friends name or wifes name so they appear to have nothing.