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So I'm looking to pull the trigger on this 65 442 and before doing so just wanted to run it by the brain trust on here to make sure I'm not missing any glaring red flags. I've been to 442bro.com to get educated as much as I could and try to identify as much as I could when I went to see it in person.
Here's what I know, he's the third owner, car has been on eastern shore in Maryland its entire life. Second owner repainted it (hugger orange, i know is not original, but i prefer it as its different), Engine was refreshed by second owner, third owner didn't do anything except maintenance as he wasn't really a car guy and was just helping out a friend financially by purchasing it. Has documentation, original paperwork, protect-o-plates in service book, engine casting number is correct, "A" on cylinder heads, didnt verify the "V" number, air cleaner looks correct as does shifter. Don't believe exhaust tips are correct. No rust. Some paint issues on the cowl area, but can't see when hood is closed. Ran good, got her up to speed, 4 spd shifted good, i think it had drum brakes all around, was that normal? Anyways, here's some pics, let me know if you see anything that I missed. I have a few more pics of the documentation that I'll post shortly in addition to the ones below.
Thanks for the help.
Last edited by NoVA_69_442; November 3rd, 2021 at 06:20 AM.
Rick, my biggest concern would be what's under the repaint. "Eastern shore" isn't exactly the desert southwest, since you have DelMarVa humidity PLUS salt spray. How much rust repair was done, and to what quality? The peeling paint on the cowl cover doesn't lend confidence in the prep work prior to painting. And yeah, a photo of the cowl tag would be your best bet.
OK, now you're just showing off with all that documentation.
Seriously, that's amazing documentation. The cowl tag clearly shows the 4V, so the car is real. It also shows the correct ACC codes for tinted windshield, console, and M20 trans. The P-O-P also shows the correct "Vxxxxxx" engine unit number. Check to see if that (and the trans unit number) match. That broadcast card is almost too nice. Back to my first comment - if the sheet metal is clean, it's a heck of a car.
@joe_padavano Thanks for the input, I thought the documentation was pretty good. He had plenty more, but i just wanted to get a few pics of the important pieces. I hear ya on the sheet metal/paint. I walked the car, didn't see any other paint issues or bubbling under the paint. I guess it's just a crap shoot right. It was repainted about 6-7 years ago, not sure if this bodes well or not if the paint/sheet metal are holding up well.
@Rallye469 mirrors aren't a big deal for me. I crawled under the back of the car to check out the exhaust, seemed in good shape, didnt get under the sides to check though. How would I verify it's a 4 spd frame vs an auto?
@olds 307 and 403 Car was originally saffron yellow, was re-painted Hugger Orange, which I believe is a factory GM paint, but not sure if there were any Olds painted Hugger Orange. It definitely stands out, not a color you typically see on an Olds.
take a Rockauto collectors magnetic card and verify bondo on rockers, lower fender parts and wheel housing - thats what I do in Austria, when they look that nice ;-)
@exotec The gentleman there was kind enough to let me borrow a magnet (I forgot mine at home) and all areas you mentioned, the magnet stuck. Some areas the had a stronger magnetic pull than others ( which i'm assuming might be a small layer of filler in some areas), but they all pulled the magnet and it stuck.
@edzolz I'm assuming I could follow up (also assuming the gentleman is still around), hadn't really considered it though. Might get a good back story on the car.
Speaking as one who "came of age" in the 70's, I am a sucker for orange cars... I really like this one. Dillydally long enough and someone else will drive it home...
@Charlie Jones & @edzolz Ran a google search, unconfirmed results based on name/location looks like original owner may have passed jan 2021. second owner passed years back also, that was the reason the third owner bought it, helped out widow financially by buying it from her.
@4+4+2=10 completely agreed, sit it too long and it might long gone....and the orange is very attention grabbing and awesome.
Where about on the Eastern Shore. It is where I live depending on its location and when, I could look at it with you. I will admit I don't know much about 65s but would give you another set of eyes if you want. Am always willing to look even if I can't afford.
Seriously, it appears to be a great car with excellent documentation that supports the provenance. As long as the owner is not asking a crazy amount, it seems very low risk.
Speaking as one who "came of age" in the 70's, I am a sucker for orange cars... I really like this one. Dillydally long enough and someone else will drive it home...
tc
I agree on both points.
I love orange cars too. My 70 442 was definitely a big part of that. I like the look of that color on that car.
Always a big gamble to walk away from a nice car. I have lost far too many that way. If it works for you grab it.
Brought her home last Thursday, she ran great on the 2 1/2 hour drive home. I was able to wipe away some dirt and verify that the heads are numbers matching.
Any idea on how do i verify if the carb is original?
Congrats. Technically, if you have the Protect-O-Plate, only that one head is "numbers matching", since that engine unit number matches the P-O-P that also has the VIN. The other head may be have correct casting number and date codes in the correct range, but there is no way to know if it is original. Same thing with the carb. There are no numbers that "match" on the carb. In fact, the only thing that even proves the carb is "correct" for the application is the little triangular aluminum tag with the carb number that is held under one of the air horn screws. Obviously this is easily swapped from one carb to another, and was frequently "lost" at the first carb rebuild anyway.
As an aside, the reason why I'm so down on this whole "numbers matching" thing is that the engine in my 67 Delta is "numbers matching", despite the fact that it is a 455, not the original 425. The only original part on that motor is the passenger side head with the original engine unit number. The entire short block is obviously different, and even the driver side head needed to be replaced when the machine shop found a crack.
With what Joe points out and given that the carb is a 4GC, you may wish to upgrade to a Q-Jet, which would necessitate use of a different manifold but would probably be worth it. Going out on a limb here, but I believe Quadrajets were used on B-motors later in the model year, but I could be wrong on that. Anybody?
Qjets were used by Chevy late in the 1965 model year, but I haven't found any evidence that Olds did the same. If the 4GC is running well, there's no reason to change it. If you do feel the need, an E-brock carb bolts to that intake.
@joe_padavano thanks for the input. I figured since that tag was gone it might be hard to validate the carb. No big deal either way. I get what you're saying on the numbers matching part. I've never been big into numbers matching, just found it cool that this still had some of the documentation that lined up with various parts of the car. Trust me I've already considered looking to see if i can get tri-carb set up in there.
Hopefully you'll be able to see it at one of the meet ups.
Any idea the size of e-brock carb id need if i go that route?
Looks like a great find! I recently located a 65 in western PA that I may take a look at. Your information is definitely helping my thought process! Great early Christmas present.
@joe_padavano thanks for the input. I figured since that tag was gone it might be hard to validate the carb. No big deal either way. I get what you're saying on the numbers matching part. I've never been big into numbers matching, just found it cool that this still had some of the documentation that lined up with various parts of the car. Trust me I've already considered looking to see if i can get tri-carb set up in there.
Hopefully you'll be able to see it at one of the meet ups.
Any idea the size of e-brock carb id need if i go that route?
I'd go with a 750. Looking forward to seeing the car in person. I had a 65 442 convertible in college, mumble mumble years ago.
Brought her home last Thursday, she ran great on the 2 1/2 hour drive home. I was able to wipe away some dirt and verify that the heads are numbers matching.
Any idea on how do i verify if the carb is original?
That car has found the most perfect home. Awesome. I love that car going to YOU!!! You will give that car Mad Love. I love that car in your hands.
Glad the drive home was uneventful. When I took my 70S home for the 4 hour drive, I had to add trans fluid 3 times. The last time with stop leak surprisingly did something. The trans lasted a couple more years. I wouldn't go with any Edelbrock carb other than the new 800cfm AVS2. Although it seems more Olds guys have less issues since they are assembled in the US. A Street Demon 750 might also work, both patterns and a 3 barrel. Glad you got it👍
@joe_padavano Thanks for the input, I thought the documentation was pretty good. He had plenty more, but i just wanted to get a few pics of the important pieces. I hear ya on the sheet metal/paint. I walked the car, didn't see any other paint issues or bubbling under the paint. I guess it's just a crap shoot right. It was repainted about 6-7 years ago, not sure if this bodes well or not if the paint/sheet metal are holding up well.
@Rallye469 mirrors aren't a big deal for me. I crawled under the back of the car to check out the exhaust, seemed in good shape, didnt get under the sides to check though. How would I verify it's a 4 spd frame vs an auto?
frame info
442 received HD frame it didn’t matter if it was a auto or manual car
all manual f85/cutlass also received the HD Frame
there are a few differences but the biggest and easiest to see is the 4 holes for the upper rear axle mount for adjusting for different axles I believe it was for piñon angle ?
frame info
442 received HD frame it didn’t matter if it was a auto or manual car
all manual f85/cutlass also received the HD Frame
there are a few differences but the biggest and easiest to see is the 4 holes for the upper rear axle mount for adjusting for different axles I believe it was for piñon angle ?
Don't confuse the 442 frame with the adjusting holes with the RPO F35 HD frame option. The HD frame was the boxed convertible frame installed under Holiday and Club coupes.
Don't confuse the 442 frame with the adjusting holes with the RPO F35 HD frame option. The HD frame was the boxed convertible frame installed under Holiday and Club coupes.
thanks for the correction. But the 442 frame is also referred to as HD it as also been proven over the years that manual cars came with the 442 he frame
I was aware of the convertible frame being a option but never seen it referred to as a HD frame
thanks for the updated knowledge
November 3rd, 2021, 05:08 AM
