tkcutlass

I have seen a few threads on upgrading headlights, relays etc.
What is the best/cheapest headlights for my 69 cutlass S that will just plug in.
Not planning on a lot of night driving.

oldcutlass

The H5001 (high beam) and H5006 (low beam) are brighter than the stock originals. You can also wire up 2 relays that are triggered from the original lamp power wires that can direct full battery power to the lamps without going through the cars wiring harness.

matt69olds

What he said ^.

Assuming the charging system is working correctly, the wiring isn’t a mess, good modern bulbs and maybe the relay upgrade is all that’s needed in my opinion.

This topic comes up occasionally. If you can’t see at night with the above changes, either your overdriving the headlights or your scared of the dark. 😏 Anything brighter will bling oncoming traffic. If you need more light than the low beams provide, there is always the high beams.

Koda

I am happy with halogens like Eric said on my Chevy, and, as my H/O is rocking 1 working hi/lo, 1 working hi, 1/2 (on hi) hi/lo, and one dead hi T3s, it's time for an upgrade.

joe_padavano

Unless your wiring has been underwater for years, relays are just added failure modes if you are using halogen lights. If you really think you have a voltage drop problem, use a quality high-impedance voltmeter to test for voltage at the light connectors.

Chugger

I installed specifically the Wagner sealed beam halogens into my 69 S. They are a direct fit and the light is impressive bright white. Check Rock Auto - great prices.

fleming442

I'll disagree with that. Moving the load out to a dedicated battery feed and using the switches to control the relays alone is a very wise upgrade. Additional failure point? Maybe, but you're eliminating 2 in the process- the headlight and high beam switches. They now have a 1A load instead of 15-20A.

joe_padavano

The contacts in the headlight and dimmer switch are designed to carry the current of the headlights. Adding additional contacts to that circuit just adds potential failure modes with no increase in current carrying capacity. And if you really think that the relays you get today are more reliable than the OEM switches, take one apart and compare the gauge of the internal contacts with the ones in a Delco headlight switch. Yeah, you can buy a quality, high-current relay. You'll be far better off putting that money into a new OEM-style headlight switch.

fleming442

I expected nothing less. We can agree to disagree. Just don't flash your highs at my lows: you'll regret it.

Greg Rogers

I need a upgrade for my own peepers! Glare really bothers me, old people eyes, I guess....But seriously I have regular replacement halogens in my Cutlass and my old truck, they seem adequate. Though I rode in my buddies new Jeep suv and was really surprised how good the lights are, they seem like there is a line where the low beams fill completely and then stops above that, then when on high beam the line raises, pretty amazing, you can see it on the trees,etc.

matt69olds

I recall reading somewhere that a lot of the aftermarket headlights do not meet the DOT regulations on the type of light and brightness. While I have no clue what the regulations are, and what kind of light is allowed, I have noticed many cars have headlights that are best described as blinding. Maybe it’s a combination of poor desire and poor headlight aim.

joe_padavano

DOT requirements are designed to mitigate blinding oncoming drivers. You're not particularly safe if the guy coming at you can't see you. These requirements cover brightness, light color, and aiming. Many aftermarket headlights are all over the map on this, and like most performance parts, carry the "off highway use only" legal disclaimer to keep the manufacturer out of jail.

Blinding oncoming drivers doesn't make your "hands" look bigger.

matt69olds

There is a measurable voltage drop across the factory headlight wiring. While you get no argument from me that the headlight circuit is functional as designed, the addition of relays isn’t a bad upgrade. Assuming the wiring is good (relays won’t fix shoddy corroded wiring or terminals) adding relays is a worthwhile improvement. I have parted out enough cars and trucks over the years with brittle wiring and melted headlight switch connectors to know the potential is there for serious problems.

Im curious of the current draw difference between the original T3 headlights these cars came with factory, verses modern halogen replacements. I have never compared them, I can’t recall ever seeing a comparison made. If modern halogen bulbs draw more current that the original design, then relays make even more sense.

As for the quality of aftermarket relays, I would much rather use good OEM junkyard relays than parts store replacement any day. I buy the factory Delphi terminals and make my own harnesses. That way they are environmentally sealed.

And as far as additional failure point, there are relays that are powered anytime the engine is running (fuel pump relay) and others that are powered anytime the ignition is on, relay failure isn’t all that common. And if they do fail, it’s usually a symptom of another problem (cooling fan drawing excessive current, excessive ABS pump cycling, etc).

joe_padavano

The issue isn't on-time, it's number of on-off cycles. Every time you make or break a connection, there's an arc that contributes to pitting on the terminals. I've had the factory high speed blower relay stick on because this pitting caused the contacts to overheat and weld together. Sorry, less stuff is always more reliable. I do failure modes and effects analyses for aerospace systems in my day job.

The other issue here is that 95% of people on automotive forums run screaming like little girls when there are electrons involved. Given the number of questions posted about how relays work, the odds of most people installing and wiring them correctly is pretty low in my opinion. Heck, most people don't even know which end of the soldering iron to hold. Imagine how much more reliable those relays are when they're installed with Scotchlok connectors.

matt69olds

As much as I despise scotch lock connectors, cheap uninsulated butt connectors are right up there on my hate list. And don’t get me started on household wire or wire nuts in a car!!!

I really wish the aftermarket would add a few pennies to the cost of whatever they are selling and include quality connectors. If that’s asking too much, then make the item a few pennies cheaper and don’t include any.

joe_padavano

I wish people would learn how to use solder and shrink tubing.

Koda

Ugh vampire connectors. Relays on headlights are one of those shotgun to kill a fly solutions. They certainly work. Fixing the stock harness and running halogens works just fine, too.

OEM headlamps are regulated for brightness, color temp, wattage, and more. OEMs have headlight aimers which are cameras that sit at a certain spot in front of the car, when the car is at a certain spot, and they provide feedback to some power screwdrivers to dial it in in about 15 seconds. All our guy has to do is put the drivers on and hold them there till done.

JohnnyBs68S

^^THIS. I still have my 25W Weller soldering iron that my older brother gave to me as a birthday present when I was like 10 y/o and taught me how to solder properly (melt the solder on the heated wire, NOT on the tip of the iron). I think I still have the 5-lb spool of 60/40 solder as well.

matt69olds

“But, but, solder makes the wire brittle!!!”

Thats the argument I always hear from people who either don’t know how to solder, or more likely don’t own a iron and have no desire to learn how to properly solder.

The only way solder can make a wire brittle is if you add so much solder it wicks up inside the insulation.

One of my automotive instructors said something along the lines of “make the connection mechanically and electrically sound by properly crimping it. Use the solder to ensure it stays that way.”

If solder and heat shrink was a bad idea, the OEM wouldn’t use it.

joe_padavano

These are the same clowns who swear that Grade 5 bolts are "better" than Grade 8 because they are more ductile.

Weezer

I sheepishly admit to having used those scotchlok and butt end crimp connectors when putting my dock lights onto my pontoon 2 years ago. Guess who is redoing his wiring and soldering that sh*t together on the next trip to the cottage before putting the boat in the water this year?

joe_padavano

Don't feel bad. I had a bad wire feeding the headlight switch on my 1999 K3500. I bypassed the bad section of wire, but there was no way to actually get to the wires and make a proper splice without completely disassembling the dash and dropping the steering column. It pained me to have to use Scotchlok connectors.

Koda

I bet you got those little airplane crimps with the holes to see the wire in, don't you?

oldcutlass

I use nothing but PIDG terminals, they do not corrode and the joint is as almost as good as solder. The aircraft industry converted from solder to mechanical joints back in the 80's and never looked back.

cdrod

I've actually measured the current draw of the halogen bulbs sold by Hella. These have a glass housing and take an H4 bulb for hi/lo beams and an H1 bulb for hi-beams. Hella's 55w/60w hi/lo H4 bulb draws 4.6A and 5.1A respectively at 12.6v. The Hella 60w H1 hi-beam bulb draws 4.6A at 12.6v. I don't know why the 55w H4 low-beam and 60w H1 high-beam draw the same amount of current (4.6A); but my numbers are actual, measured results.

Rodney

edzolz

If your lows are strong enough to night blind some folks, you deserve to get flashed. Around here it would be a traffic offence.

fleming442

I knew that comment would wad up some Depends. They're not that bright, but I do occasionally get flashed. The reason I changed the lights was for all the reasons already listed: 54 yr old wiring and switches and old design sealed beams. So, I went with Hella E-code [not US DOT, BUT good enough for Europe] H4 housings, OSRAM night breaker bulbs, ceramic plugs, and relays. My lights would start flashing on and off with the high beams on. It turned out to be the high beam switch, and that's when I decided to upgrade everything. Most of the white New Balance crew vacates the ice cream stand before they need headlights, anyway.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/realoldspower/new-twist-on-an-old-look-t13260.html

bccan

The E Code beam pattern is different from the standard sealed beam pattern and works well for putting light where it is best used without a tendency to blind oncoming traffic. I’m running 60/100 & 100’s, I think I was flashed once and a friend did bitch when I was behind him on some pitch black back roads. The roads curved and undulated creating angles that lit up the back of his neck a little.

FWIW - I like the Relay/Heavy Wiring/E Code retrofit, sure does work well for me and generally doesn’t seem to cause problems for other drivers. High beams rarely used but they sure are there when I want them and they won’t bother anyone when used properly.

GCH

I did this on my GMC truck , upper lamps are Hella H4 low and high beam and lower lamps are Wagner sealed highbeam triggered
from original high beam wires and a relay / fuse with power from battery. Have used the truck often when it,s dark and the lights are very good. Also use PIDG terminals and shrink tube .

But an upgrade on my Oldsmobiles with original wiring would be very nice because the lights are very bad in dark driving.

BackInTheGame

Holy Smokes, I find that Tapa-Talk format HARD to read. WAY busy background. But good/interesting info there.

Koda

There's a "dark" setting you can put it to that gets rid of all that, but, yeah, ROP sucks in its current incarnation.