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Anyone see the 69 W30 convertible go through the Mecum auction last night?
It sold for 150000! The car has NO factory documents! It only had a broadcast card which does not show the W30 option, a Rocket Report non certified- again NOT factory, and a letter from the Olds Curator - Helen, again nothing to authenticate the W30.
So how can the auction site say this car is very well documented?
The judges who looked at the car at MCACN even stated that this car has “bulletproof” documentation on FB.
So please help me understand?
If it was just a regular “Joe” trying to sell this car off as a W30 at an auction without paperwork he would be crucified. But, since it’s a respected Olds community member the only thing I hear are crickets - like nobody wants to say anything or hurt feelings??
A thread was even deleted off of FB this morning in regards to the car.
What real factory paperwork is with this car? - my feeling is nothing. They even show pictures on the Mecum site and there is no factory paperwork to authenticate the W30 in this car but the auction house states it Differently.
Don’t get me wrong, the car is beautiful but not documented as stated everywhere.
Is this misrepresentation??
It only had a broadcast card which does not show the W30 option,
for 68 and 69 W cars this is the norm. There is NOTHING fisher body related that would be depicted on the fisher body broadcast card to denote a W car. This is well known amongst 68/69 W-car people. Thats just the way it is. Starting in 70, W-cars got the stripes on the body and most of the time box 3 of the fisher body broadcast card shows W-30 or W-31 in that box.
Actually looking at the cars description it says it has the original drive train. So as what I have heard, the 400 engine in W30s we’re different and the transmission has the OH tag on it.
The “bullet proof” documentation must be Steve Minore’s Rocket Report. As the top authenticator of Oldsmobile’s, he wouldn’t put his name on it if it wasn’t original. —Billy
The car had zero factory paperwork to authenticate the W30 option.
An automatic 69W30 car would have an 0W transmission not an OH. The OH transmissions came on 69 Hurst olds.
This car being a four-speed, will not have either one of those transmissions. It will have an M20 or an M21.
You are right, there was a Rocket Report by Minore.. However, the Rocket Report was not certified because there was zero factory paperwork presented to authenticate the W30 option.
You have to remember this, there are two versions of the Rocket Report, certified and non certified. This car falls under the non certified.
That’s what I’m trying to figure out, why did it sell for so high if there was no factory paperwork? Imagine if it was a dealer trying to sell this car without paperwork 🙂
Last edited by Ranjit; January 14th, 2020 at 07:33 PM.
The market typically dictates pricing. In a perfectly competitive market, equilibrium price of the product is determined through a process of interaction between the aggregate or market demand and the aggregate or market supply. Equilibrium price is such a price at which the market demand becomes equal to market supply.
Looking at this 442s recent judged pedigree, most would agree the market supply is very very small.
It can also be said many buyers have more dollars than sense, but how many 1969 4 speed convertible W30 442s have been vetted like this one over the last four years?
for 68 and 69 W cars this is the norm. There is NOTHING fisher body related that would be depicted on the fisher body broadcast card to denote a W car. This is well known amongst 68/69 W-car people. Thats just the way it is. Starting in 70, W-cars got the stripes on the body and most of the time box 3 of the fisher body broadcast card shows W-30 or W-31 in that box.
While you are generally correct, the fact remains that any 69 W30 (or any other w30 for that matter) imported into Canada has bulletproof documentation. As the OP is from Canada I'm sure he's a little suprised at the fact that no GM of Canada 68 or 69 W30 has pulled anywhere near this much money.... and so am I.....
Originally Posted by Billyaxe
Actually looking at the cars description it says it has the original drive train. So as what I have heard, the 400 engine in W30s we’re different and the transmission has the OH tag on it.
The “bullet proof” documentation must be Steve Minore’s Rocket Report. As the top authenticator of Oldsmobile’s, he wouldn’t put his name on it if it wasn’t original. —Billy
Steve only says "in his opinion".
This car is a 4 speed, there is no tranny code to authenticate it.
There's probably no doubt it's real but with no documentation, after it passes through a couple more hands, it will certainly be devalued. $150k would be a benchmark sale for a 69 Convertible 4 speed W30 WITH documentation....let that sink it...
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Last edited by allyolds68; January 15th, 2020 at 12:12 PM.
It "pulled the money" because someone wanted IT. Put this car up against others that have sold out there or are for sale....side-by-side, component-by-component, and make a comparison. It can't be done by comparing pictures. Every buyer is different and has their own "boxes that must be checked" for them to pay whatever their price is. I've seen this car in person multiple times and it has a very high level of detail. Most cars don't. My suspicion is the buyer wanted a super slick car and had seen plenty of others that hardly came close and this car qualified. Great color combo on top of it all.
This is not like the stock market where every share of a company sold is the same as other shares sold. Every car is different and the requirements and knowledge of each buyer can vary widely.
What a beautiful car. 165K to a 1 percenter is like 1650 bucks to a poor slob like me. If anything else, it should make the average Joe with a '69 vert smile.
150k + for an UNdocumented ‘69 W30 is complete madness.
why? and how?
It’s a very nice car with ZERO pedigree except that the previous owner owned it for years from what I understand - so now that makes the car real?? Since when?
IMHO, I think The RocketReport has brainwashed people into actually thinking it’s factory documentation like the PHS documents and the Marti Report.
Can someone explain to me what the two versions of the RocketReport are? Even better, can someone share a copy of a RocketReport?
I respect the amount of work and knowledge that go into a Rocket Report and what its purpose is - it means the car has been gone over and documented in great detail providing multiple aspects of evidence of what it likely is - or is not. It provides a serious document with detailed evidence for an owner's records and a buyer's consideration, not a guarantee. Without owner history, even documents like build sheets/broadcast cards aren't a guarantee anymore since blanks and repros are out there. I know that even without doing a Rocket Report for me, Steve spent hours taking pictures of the craziest minutiae on my Fremont-built survivor '72 350 Supreme since it was untouched. More reference material for future inspections.
He looks for original, correct components that are still installed properly, original #ed parts that look sketchy or are installed incorrectly suggesting they may have been added later, factory markings, correct original fasteners, stamps, original metal tags on carbs that often go missing, etc. He's been over dozens or maybe hundreds of these cars in all states of originality and has a trained eye - he'll pick up on things that someone with lesser experience will miss. It's not enough to suggest that anyone can do this with reference books and an assembly manual. There are a lot of things that indicate if a car is truly what it claims to be, or if it was created later like my old Jade Gold '68 post coupe that has now mysteriously become a RamRod.
If the report can save someone from buying (or at least over-paying for) a bogus car, it's valuable. I guarantee some guys won't be able to supress their vaginitis and will have to snipe about Steve's service, but none of them have been getting on airplanes for a full weekend to inspect cars onsite for people all over the U.S..
Terry
Last edited by vette442; January 15th, 2020 at 05:17 PM.
Contrary to popular belief, cars were being cloned into their higher performance variations in the late 70's, and in abundance during the early 80's. I believe that Mr. Minore has probably seen more than most people could imagine.
No I was saying for that car to reach that money I assumed there were multiple bidders, No matter what reserve price the owner put on it. Jeeze.
there definitely could have been one bidder. He could very well have been bidding against a reserve the entire time. He was definitely bidding against a reserve at the end.
I understand that paperwork and pedigree means a lot. But it’s not everything. Sometimes there are unfortunate circumstances that lead to precious documents either being lost, damaged or stolen. Kudos to those who own vehicles with bulletproof documentation. Sometimes we might take a chance on a very expensive investment that does not have a build sheet, broadcast card, window sticker or Protect-O-Plates. On another note, I unfortunately lost the original birth certificate for one of my daughters. I had to get a copy of her original but it was not the same document. Her original was not in micro-fish. Her hospital was destroyed by an oxygen fire. Does this mean that my daughter is not a “documented original” ? I understand all about documentation. All of it can be faked. Unfortunately for us extremely well.
Anyone see the 69 W30 convertible go through the Mecum auction last night?
It sold for 150000! The car has NO factory documents! It only had a broadcast card which does not show the W30 option, a Rocket Report non certified- again NOT factory, and a letter from the Olds Curator - Helen, again nothing to authenticate the W30.
So how can the auction site say this car is very well documented?
The judges who looked at the car at MCACN even stated that this car has “bulletproof” documentation on FB.
So please help me understand?
If it was just a regular “Joe” trying to sell this car off as a W30 at an auction without paperwork he would be crucified. But, since it’s a respected Olds community member the only thing I hear are crickets - like nobody wants to say anything or hurt feelings??
A thread was even deleted off of FB this morning in regards to the car.
What real factory paperwork is with this car? - my feeling is nothing. They even show pictures on the Mecum site and there is no factory paperwork to authenticate the W30 in this car but the auction house states it Differently.
Don’t get me wrong, the car is beautiful but not documented as stated everywhere.
Is this misrepresentation??
Anyone? What gives?
Things that make you go hmmmm.
What is a "Rocket Report" and where does one get one? also where do I find a Boradcast card?
January 11th, 2020, 12:53 PM
