65 Oldsmobile 442 Motor - Find & Question
#1
65 Oldsmobile 442 Motor - Find & Question
I recently purchased a 1965 Oldsmobile 442 motor complete with A/C compressor, mounting brackets, 3 groove pulley, 2-groove A/C Delco alternator and distributor. I'm quite excited...it is in beautiful condition with little to no corrosion or signs of shade tree tinkering. I found a couple of interesting markings and would like to verify their authenticity/specificity to Oldsmobile and the 442 model. All the block, manifold, and head casting numbers are correct for a 1965 442. While degreasing the engine, I found a white "V" on the oil pan (see photo) and I was wondering if this designated a 442 motor, similar to the "V" prefix on the passenger side machined surface of the front head? Also, the Fridgidaire A/C compressor has a small, partial yellow stamping on the side that has "Old" and some numbers (diameter about the side of quarter). Does this designate an Oldsmobile version of this item? The carb appears to original (Carter WCFB?) with small numbers on one of the base tangs...is there a number/code that I can look for to determine if it is correct?
Thank you very much! Keep Oldsmobiling....
Thank you very much! Keep Oldsmobiling....
#3
Carb is definitely not correct and I even question the intake as not being a 65... Can't tell for sure from the photo whether or not the intake is correct for what should be a coil mounted choke housing... If it has a choke heat tube mounted in the intake it is not correct for 65....
#4
Carb is definitely not correct and I even question the intake as not being a 65... Can't tell for sure from the photo whether or not the intake is correct for what should be a coil mounted choke housing... If it has a choke heat tube mounted in the intake it is not correct for 65....
Edit: If you zoom in on the first photo, you can read "4439" on the runner behind the carb. The casting number for a correct 1965 square bore intake is 384439, so I'm sure this is an original intake.
#8
"similar to the "V" prefix on the passenger side machined surface of the front head?"
So, what is the Engine Unit Stamp on the front of the RH head?
I would like to see the date codes of the major castings, just for posterity and general knowledge.
Block, by distributor, looks like 1-319
Intake manifold
Heads
Water pump
exhaust manifolds
Maybe the fuel pump is still in place and has the embossed AC logo and a stamped in app'n #?
So, what is the Engine Unit Stamp on the front of the RH head?
I would like to see the date codes of the major castings, just for posterity and general knowledge.
Block, by distributor, looks like 1-319
Intake manifold
Heads
Water pump
exhaust manifolds
Maybe the fuel pump is still in place and has the embossed AC logo and a stamped in app'n #?
Last edited by Octania; December 22nd, 2015 at 09:30 AM.
#11
Ed, I believe the A heads were such. I think the 65s and 66s had B heads, the 67s had Cs, and the 68s went to the other 400 with C heads, which makes the 67s the best till 70, and those of us who like them Princes Among Men, or something like that.
#12
Fyi
No. A heads in 65. B heads in 66.
#14
#16
The only second-gen Olds heads to get shaft-mounted rockers were the 1964-only no. 1 heads on the 330. No BBO heads ever got shaft-mounted rockers. The 1965 "A" heads did get the 3/8" rocker studs, however.
#18
I have no idea how many were made with either head. Check out this site and look under the head info tab. I found two 65 442's in a guys yard in GA. years ago and the patina suggested they were original untouched cars and both had B heads on the engines. I would imagine that the heads were changed to the B heads sometime during the year model run because of going to the later design rocker assembly.
http://www.442bro.com/
More proof.
http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofhed.htm...Identification
Last edited by 66-3X2 442; December 23rd, 2015 at 03:35 PM.
#19
A & b
Thanks for the info. Looks like later built 1965 442s could have & did come with B heads instead of the more common & early used A heads.
Thanks
Thanks
Last edited by oldsmobiledave; December 24th, 2015 at 07:51 AM.
#20
Once again, it is just a compendium of listserver posts with no fact checking whatsoever.
#21
I don't think it was just a 442 deal either. As the info showed,425's also had them. So I'm guessing they went to the B head during production for all BBO. Your welcome.
#22
I understand but with my experiences are that I have seen them on 65 model cars pretty much tells me they came on them. I could ask the question on Jasen's site but I really don't care if they did or didn't. All I know is 66's had them and we all know a 65 442 is no match for a 66.
#23
Doesn't mean it's wrong either,right?
#24
That rationale isn't exactly "proof"....
And yes, there are many instances of the FAQ definitely being proven wrong.
Proof in the Oldsmobile arena needs to be factory source literature. Anything else is anecdotal and thus not "proof". Yes, even that isn't perfect, as we've seen, but it is what the cars were designed and built to. Obviously some equipment changed over the course of a model year, but this would have been documented in factory-authorized revisions to documents, or bulletins. Not all of this info is in the public domain, and thus not all of it is completely known, but it is the best available.
And yes, there are many instances of the FAQ definitely being proven wrong.
Proof in the Oldsmobile arena needs to be factory source literature. Anything else is anecdotal and thus not "proof". Yes, even that isn't perfect, as we've seen, but it is what the cars were designed and built to. Obviously some equipment changed over the course of a model year, but this would have been documented in factory-authorized revisions to documents, or bulletins. Not all of this info is in the public domain, and thus not all of it is completely known, but it is the best available.
#25
That rationale isn't exactly "proof"....
And yes, there are many instances of the FAQ definitely being proven wrong.
Proof in the Oldsmobile arena needs to be factory source literature. Anything else is anecdotal and thus not "proof". Yes, even that isn't perfect, as we've seen, but it is what the cars were designed and built to. Obviously some equipment changed over the course of a model year, but this would have been documented in factory-authorized revisions to documents, or bulletins. Not all of this info is in the public domain, and thus not all of it is completely known, but it is the best available.
And yes, there are many instances of the FAQ definitely being proven wrong.
Proof in the Oldsmobile arena needs to be factory source literature. Anything else is anecdotal and thus not "proof". Yes, even that isn't perfect, as we've seen, but it is what the cars were designed and built to. Obviously some equipment changed over the course of a model year, but this would have been documented in factory-authorized revisions to documents, or bulletins. Not all of this info is in the public domain, and thus not all of it is completely known, but it is the best available.
Last edited by 66-3X2 442; December 25th, 2015 at 12:22 PM.
#26
As with most of the info for these cars,it comes from personal hands on experience. I think I have a pretty good knowledge of 66's and there is some things that were changed on the assembly line that isn't published anywhere. All I'm saying is,the proof is in the pudding and the ingredients in the pudding comes from many sources. Dave asked for proof and I provided all I could find from the net. Had I not seen 65's with B heads,I wouldn't argue the point. This is why I very rarely respond to questions or comment on a topic because I have to spend time defending or explaining my comments. I can guarantee one thing,if I post something about a subject,I'm pretty damn sure I'm right because I don't talk to hear myself. If I'm not sure or do not know the answer,I keep quite or will admit I do not know.
Once again, I wouldn't ever use the Olds FAQ as "proof" of anything. It is not an official Oldsmobile data repository, nor has it even had the same level of fact checking as, say, most Wikipedia articles.
#27
Nothing I've posted has been a criticism of your personal experience. I even agreed with you about the use of B heads in 1965. My whole point was about the unreliability of the Oldsmobile FAQ. As someone who was there when it got created, I've posted many times about how that process took place, especially the lack of proper fact checking.
Once again, I wouldn't ever use the Olds FAQ as "proof" of anything. It is not an official Oldsmobile data repository, nor has it even had the same level of fact checking as, say, most Wikipedia articles.
Once again, I wouldn't ever use the Olds FAQ as "proof" of anything. It is not an official Oldsmobile data repository, nor has it even had the same level of fact checking as, say, most Wikipedia articles.
#28
That's a reasonable question, and unfortunately there's no good answer. Personally, I'll trust factory source documentation the most (CSM, parts books, dealership literature), but we know that even factory documents have been shown to have errors, or updates as offered equipment was changed over the course of a model year. I agree that much of the info on the FAQ IS correct, but since it's at best a third-generation source (and in most cases, worse than that), I still wouldn't point to it as "proof" to back up a statement I had made.
#29
That's a reasonable question, and unfortunately there's no good answer. Personally, I'll trust factory source documentation the most (CSM, parts books, dealership literature), but we know that even factory documents have been shown to have errors, or updates as offered equipment was changed over the course of a model year. I agree that much of the info on the FAQ IS correct, but since it's at best a third-generation source (and in most cases, worse than that), I still wouldn't point to it as "proof" to back up a statement I had made.
#30
A long term OCA member and '65 B head owner is John Galehouse. His car was used in the centennial parade.
One thing that may shed some light on the '65 B head subject is the date when K19 K20 became mandated in CA. A heads did not have the AIR boss but B heads did, therefore, the system could not be fitted to A heads.
One thing that may shed some light on the '65 B head subject is the date when K19 K20 became mandated in CA. A heads did not have the AIR boss but B heads did, therefore, the system could not be fitted to A heads.
#31
A long term OCA member and '65 B head owner is John Galehouse. His car was used in the centennial parade.
One thing that may shed some light on the '65 B head subject is the date when K19 K20 became mandated in CA. A heads did not have the AIR boss but B heads did, therefore, the system could not be fitted to A heads.
One thing that may shed some light on the '65 B head subject is the date when K19 K20 became mandated in CA. A heads did not have the AIR boss but B heads did, therefore, the system could not be fitted to A heads.
#32
Well, I feel like we're getting off topic but in the spirit of information sharing I wanted to post pictures of some A heads with AIR bosses cast into them. I have a pair of V code heads dated 174 and a single M code head dated 31 that have them. Due to my location probably half the cars I come across are Fremont built cars, so that may have something to do with me having these heads.
John
DSCN5411.jpg
DSCN5419.jpg
John
DSCN5411.jpg
DSCN5419.jpg
#33
Well, I feel like we're getting off topic but in the spirit of information sharing I wanted to post pictures of some A heads with AIR bosses cast into them. I have a pair of V code heads dated 174 and a single M code head dated 31 that have them. Due to my location probably half the cars I come across are Fremont built cars, so that may have something to do with me having these heads.
John
John
#34
I'll give a very good example of a change made during production that has never been documented to my knowledge. In 66 sometime during May they started putting 67 left front filler/inner fender panels that had the indention for the P/B booster. The PIM/assembly manual only shows the 66 part #'s for them. The parts book still showed the 66 left part # for a while even after the change was made on the line. I've looked at a lot of 66's and every one that was pretty much untouched/original had the 67 panel and had a May or later build date.
#35
I wanted to post pictures of some A heads with AIR bosses cast into them. I have a pair of V code heads dated 174 and a single M code head dated 31 that have them. Due to my location probably half the cars I come across are Fremont built cars, so that may have something to do with me having these heads.
John
John
#37
What's the date code on yours Chris? Also the application? The pair I have came off a 442, but the single has a stamped code starting with M. I also noticed that the 6 digit number cast over the center exhaust ports has an additional letter. A for drivers side, B for passengers side. Maybe we need a new thread to see what kind of information we can collect on these heads. Who else has them, date codes, application codes, etc.? John
#38
Thanks to everyone for the feedback, appreciate the insight into various codes/IDs. I took some additional photos of what appear to be colored paint "daubs" that I'm attributing to assembly check/verification markings - three colors: pink (across and above the freeze plugs on both sides of the block), white (driver side lower end of the motor) and red (near the dip stick). What was really interesting was the amount of the block that had no bronze paint - raw casting - maybe 15-20% - including the back of the oil pan. My guess (again, if anyone knows I'd appreciate details) is that it was painted while assembled and areas with no paint were obstructed by something. While rummaging through a box, I found what I believe is the original carb (Rochester Q-Jet) along with the starter motor and misc. bolts, etc.
To the individual who asked about numbers and IDs, here's what I've found:
Heads: A Code 383821
Block Casting No.: 389298
Intake: B Code 384439
Head stamp (front passenger side): V001128
Rear bottom of motor stamp: 7735
Oil pump: 5573410 "Replace with AC PF 7"
Rear top of motor casting ID (by distributor):
1
311
To the individual who asked about numbers and IDs, here's what I've found:
Heads: A Code 383821
Block Casting No.: 389298
Intake: B Code 384439
Head stamp (front passenger side): V001128
Rear bottom of motor stamp: 7735
Oil pump: 5573410 "Replace with AC PF 7"
Rear top of motor casting ID (by distributor):
1
311
#39
Thanks to everyone for the feedback, appreciate the insight into various codes/IDs. I took some additional photos of what appear to be colored paint "daubs" that I'm attributing to assembly check/verification markings - three colors: pink (across and above the freeze plugs on both sides of the block), white (driver side lower end of the motor) and red (near the dip stick). What was really interesting was the amount of the block that had no bronze paint - raw casting - maybe 15-20% - including the back of the oil pan. My guess (again, if anyone knows I'd appreciate details) is that it was painted while assembled and areas with no paint were obstructed by something. While rummaging through a box, I found what I believe is the original carb (Rochester Q-Jet) along with the starter motor and misc. bolts, etc.
To the individual who asked about numbers and IDs, here's what I've found:
Heads: A Code 383821
Block Casting No.: 389298
Intake: B Code 384439
Head stamp (front passenger side): V001128
Rear bottom of motor stamp: 7735
Oil pump: 5573410 "Replace with AC PF 7"
Rear top of motor casting ID (by distributor):
1
311
To the individual who asked about numbers and IDs, here's what I've found:
Heads: A Code 383821
Block Casting No.: 389298
Intake: B Code 384439
Head stamp (front passenger side): V001128
Rear bottom of motor stamp: 7735
Oil pump: 5573410 "Replace with AC PF 7"
Rear top of motor casting ID (by distributor):
1
311
That's a pretty late block most I have seen have been 120 ish 311 I wonder if that is near the start of 66 year
Per bros Julian date chart 311 = November 07 1965
Last edited by oldstata; December 29th, 2015 at 05:07 PM.
#40
That head is early, the V code is 1128.
The 311 is 1964, not 1965. The carb is a Rochester 4-Jet. Not a Q-jet.
Rumor is 442 production didnt start until November of 1964. So the car that came in was built early in the 1965 model year (calendar year 1964).
The 311 is 1964, not 1965. The carb is a Rochester 4-Jet. Not a Q-jet.
Rumor is 442 production didnt start until November of 1964. So the car that came in was built early in the 1965 model year (calendar year 1964).