Rallye469

I went to check out the sport coupe in Sarasota as I’m down in Clearwater on vacation.
Nice folks but I’m not sure they know what they have…or me really.

The engine is a ‘65 400 with correct #’s, letters and Vcode on head.(sorry for bad picture I was dangling phone behind engine)
But the split in the frame before rear wheel arch, the single bolt hole for the upper trailing arms…it’s suspect.
I couldn’t find ANY #’s or the “S” with a circle behind the rear wheels…so that says nothing.
What it did have was boxed lower CA’s.

It was a CA car and rather clean, but it was a frame on paint job.
Thoughts?
-peter

Rallye469

So the REAL interesting part was that the imprint of the protector plate had the VO head Cade AND the cars VIN…
So what does that tell you???

-Peter
(was it called a protec-o-plate in 65?)

Koda

It doesn't tell me anything since the pictures are bad. Either you're hiding the info to protect a buy, which is fine, or your camera shoots left of center.

If you have a legitimate protectoplate, it should have the VIN, the body number and the engine number, and some accessories on it. I see C60, and the car has an AC box, so that checks.

If the engine code matches the protectoplate, and the vin does, and the cowl tag body number does, then you have a 65 442 that has at least one original head. If you've got a B 400 block there with another head of the same castings, that's quite probably the entire original engine. That protectoplate, if real, is very important, because it shows both the head, and being a 442 as well as it's a Fremont car missing the normal Fisher codes. If you do buy it, keep that protectoplate with the title in a very safe spot.

no1oldsfan

I dig the colors. Always love white and blue Oldsmobiles. Just my two cents.

Knowing enough to tell you if it's legit? I can't give you that info.

Rallye469

I promise you I was not trying to be deceitful or even protect the sale. Just couldn’t get the camera behind the head.
I think the engine and data is all correct for this car. BUT the frame seems wrong from all I’ve read.
​​​​​​​-peter

classicmuscle442

Take a look at the rear control arm mount to frame, 442 had multiple mount holes, Car has some nice option, do not see the remote mirror often.

67OAI

Are not the "multiple mount rear control arm holes" only present on standard shift cars of that era?

Rallye469

From everything I’ve seen, the multiple holes were standard issue on EVERY 442 frame.
-peter

JATA

The car may have been a 442 at some point, but the frame under it now is in correct...so more than likely a clone in the making which is fine, but an incorrect car non the less. Also, regardless the asking price is way to high in current state of rebuild. Heck, a couple k more and you could by JC's car up north. I talked to the folks in Sarasota's several months ago, they really don't much about the car as they are gto folks.J in north Florida

CANADIANOLDS

Whats the difference between a cutlass frame and a 442 frame in 65?

CANADIANOLDS

My Lansing built 65 442 has the V in the lower left corner of the plate to signify W29 side trim for 442.

dont Freemont cars get that?

rocketraider

Wondered about that too since Fisher Body plant had to make piercings to mount them. But, as always with a Fremont car, some things may be different from what is accepted as "should be".

I've often wondered how Lansing let them get away with some of it.

Koda

Fremont body tags have some other number system that no one has been able to figure out. I am sure w29 piercings are in there. Personally, I think half the digits mean "Duuuude" being in CA.

edzolz

I have owned two 65 442's and both had the same seat upholstery pattern. One was a holiday and one a post coupe.

Greg Rogers

Do all Olds have Lansing, Michigan on the cowl plate? You guys are saying this is a Fremont car. I would assume that if I saw Lansing, Michigan on a cowl plate that it was a Lansing car... No? I am curious, maybe all Olds have it on the cowl plate cuz Olds was headquartered in Lansing??

rocketraider

Yes to data plates saying Olds Division Lansing.

Look at the body number. F prefix in that indicates Fremont Fisher plant. Also that string of numbers in ACC field is a dead giveaway of a Fremont car. All the other plants stuck with the conventional codes.

Rallye469

There's a couple of things that I tried to show in the picts I posted...
-a 442 frame has 3 holes on the brackets for the upper control arms
-the frame should be solid as opposed to that split/welded frame picture
-theres gussets up front where the frame turns into the engine bay
-a special part # with a circled "S" behind the left rear wheel
Jasen & Bro's site is invaluable for finding all this info.

Nope. Fremont built Chevy's, Pontiacs and buicks on the same line and used a completely different data plate that no on can really figure out.
AND Fremont cars and data plates did have Lansing written on them even though they weren't built there.

Again, I've gotten 99% of my info on these 2 sites.
http://www.442bro.com/
http://www.ultra-high-compression.com/index.html

​​​​​​​-peter

CANADIANOLDS

I’ll have to check my friends two 65 442’s that he has to see that upper control arm mount with the four holes.

how many have you seen or heard of that are like that?

I seen the pick of the bracket mount on that website..I didn’t see where the extra gussets are at the front?

Rallye469

All the 442's I've seen have the extra holes.
Here's the ones on mine.
-peter
(and I didn't take a pic of the gussets)

2blu442

There are several things to look for on the frame. The 1964 and 65 442's both automatic and manual used this frame. Also the 1964-65 manual transmission F85 & Cutlass used it.


The top mount for the rear shocks have 4 holes

The side rail and curved piece over the rear end are one piece, no vertical weld

This flange over the rear end

In the engine compartment there's a gusset, an extra layer of metal where the crossmember meets the side frame. The gusset is on the firewall side of the crossmember

Frame Stamp

The drivers side, just in front of where the rear bumper brackets attach is the manufacture code stamped into the outside of the frame rail. This one is on a 1964 4 speed Cutlass that's not a 442

fleming442

My 67 has 2 mounts for the uppers. The FSM states that auto cars go up, and sticks get the lower.

2blu442

I've got a couple 1967 442 project cars. The 4 speed one has the one piece side frame rails. The automatic one has the vertical weld on it.