I bought a red / white 1971 442 convert with a 4 spped and ac - very rare....paid real money. Car is very nice but "suspect". I am trying to authenticate - engine number matches the vin on the dash and trim tag is in "excellent" condition. Can anyone out there tell me how to identify a reproduction trim tag? Would love to see pictures of trim tags and the rivits that attach them to the cowl. Did all gm cars use the star / rosette rivets to hold the vin plate to the dash?

I know the location for other gm cars ie. Camaro and corvette but not for the olds.....on the under heater box????, top of frame rail on drivers side??? I'd like to get some help asap, for almost 50k........ If its not legit it goes back to the "dealer" thanks for the help dave

 

Uh, kinda late for that, isn't it? In any case, the "hidden VIN" is actually a VIN derivative, like the one on the block and trans, and is USUALLY located on the top of the driver's side frame rail, behind the rear wheel kickup. They have also been spotted on the rear axle crossmember and on the framerail under the door.

 

'71 442 definitely uses rosette rivets, but at least Lansing cars rivets were installed from underneath, so what you see from on top looks like an ordinary pop rivet.

Rivets for trim tags are soft with a rather large center hole, perhaps 1/4", with some seam sealer or the like usually wiped over holes. The blue sticker on driver's door edge is another good VIN location to check.

Steve

 

What documentation do you have with the car? Build sheet, broadcast card, dealer invoice, protecto plate, owner history. Sounds like a beauty, love to see some pictures and list of options.
You may be able to get a look at the VIN frame rail with some light and small mirror? Another location for original VIN that a lot of people are unaware of is behind the heater box on firewall, if you have AC its a big PIA.

 

Hi Dave -
Go your PM the other day. If you can survive authenticating those LT-1s, you'd think the 442 would be a no brainer for you. ; ) Joe was right on with the frame VIN stamp locations, neither of which are easy to see. Does your Muncie have a matching VIN stamp as well?

Here are a couple original '72 cowl trim tags (which should be the same as '71) for reference:

DSC03603.jpg



Terry

 

Here's one from a 71 Lansing 442 vert. It was not unusual for the cowl rivets to be gooped over like that either.
1971W30VIKINGBLUETRIMTAG.jpg

 

whare in nj?

 

Thanks for all the replies. I had the car up on my lift yesterday and used a scope made by Ryobi to get a close up look at the frame #'s. I scraped off some of the gook around the trim tag rivets and it is attached with the typical rivets not the open style. There's no build sheet so IMOP its a clone. I am not happy. The car is really nice AC, 4spd, buckets, console, PS, PB, PW, PL, Tilt, Cruise, speed warning POSI but it is probably going back. Someone asked where I am located I am in central NJ near Raceway Park.

thanks again

 

Sorry,

So you don't think it is a real 442? even thought the VIN is 34467M.........
By saying it is a clone, then you think it is a cutlass supreme conv. with the VIN swapped out?
It could very well be a real 442 with options added?
What is it exactly that makes you think its a clone?
Just interested in what seller says and what makes you believe they are not telling the truth or maybe they don't know?

 

1. What did you find on the frame numbers? If they had the same characters/numbers as the VIN, that suggests all the components match.
2. Lansing production didn't leave Build Sheets in their cars. So if you found one, that would be uber rare. Even if your car was produced at Freemont, Arlington or Framingham there's no guarantee you'll find a Build sheet. You might want to look for the smaller broadcast card though. It will have info on it that matches the cowl tag body number to your car.
3. The trim tag could have been removed to repair rust. That's not illegal. If it was reattached using the wrong rivets, that's an easy fix.

Like scrappie, I'm curious about what makes you think this ISN'T a real 442. The issues you raised aren't definitive without the answers to some questions posted.

 

...posted one recently of our Lansing built '72.

 

I'm thinking you may have real 442 with some Olds options added?
I don't see anything wrong with that unless someone misrepresents it.
I noticed you listed one of the options as cruise control.
Maybe some other people can chime in but was cruise control an available option for a standard transmission?

 

Cruise was not available with standard shift transmissions. M38 or M40 required.

 

I agree with your thinking.

re: Cruise Control. According to the 1971 Olds SPECS booklet, that's option K30 (63.19 from factory order) and it was available only with either the TH350 or TH400 transmission equipped cars. You can imagine what would happen if it was still engaged when a shift was needed at highway speed.....

IDK if you can buy a MT car now with cruise, but expect it's available.

 

Here is what the top side of the rivets should look like



And as Joe pointed out if the transmission is original it would have a VIN derivative stamp on the driver's side of the casing and it is vertical possibly obscured by the shifter on the main casing where the tail housing bolts to it.

 

Dang you're fast Scot. I was just reading your email....

 

Great pic Scot, but it's the trim plate (cowl) that I believe he was looking at. Or did I read that wrong?

 

You are but if you push the clutch in or push the brakes then cruise is deactivated.

 

I thought the OP was referring to the cowl tag so that is what made me ask the question why he thinks it's a clone. A clone, I thought would be considered a fake 442 in this case. The VIN takes precedence over the cowl tag in my opinion to determine what the car is in this case.
If he thinks the VIN has been altered then that is pretty serious stuff.
If the cowl tag was removed for repair or forged then it would only be for desired color combos and trim I would think.

 

Yup I just went back and re-read and he was talking about the cowl tag I was trying to figure out why he thinks it was a clone when it has 344 in the VIN.

 

Agree 100%

 

Just throwing it out there, but here is a pic of my Lansing built VIN from underneath. Didn't know if you guys had a pic of one.

 

Nope, never seen it like that. BTW what's that wedge of plastic in the middle?

 

You may not need this anymore, but here's an old thread showing vin numbers stamped into frames.

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ped-frame.html


John

 

LOL John, I have that, the water pumps, dashes and engines bookmarked! You are a wealth of information, especially in picture format!

 

So just for grins here's a few more pictures. This is a trim tag on a parts car built in Fremont. The front and the backside of the rivits.

P4140005.jpg

P4140007.jpg

P4140008.jpg

 

I think the wedge of plastic your referring to is the wiring harness.

 

Oh never mind! I see what your referring to. I really don't know what that is. Maybe the trim plate for the VIN? I'll have to look at that.

 

Yep! There's two little wedges cast into the plastic vin tag cover that are across from each other. To remove the cover you need to gently flex the center in to get the wedges to release.

 

71 442 vert is rare in itself as a 344 vin titled car. At 50 Large yours sounds very nice and should be. Maybe the cowl tag was removed for resto as stated or worst case; someone changed or fabricated it to match the current seat trim/paint codes . Who knows... maybe it was a bench seat/ colunm shift car in bamboo or some different color from the factory. If you where told otherwise, I would check for correctness of color and seat /interior trim. chk for OEM seat mounts if buckets and while chking look for evidence of another orig paint color. Remember all those options including a 4 speed conversion could have been added. Furthemore, when you purchased the car without docs / build sheet or broudcast card you purchased a 71 344 car without any trim and option confirmation. As stated, cowl tag may have been changed to match trim. But if the vin was altered at 50k i would want to take it back too, you may be out of luck if it was just a color / option change.

 

You guys are awesome with the info. The cruise is just another sketchy area, I'm pretty sure power brakes weren't offered with the spd, were they? #'s on the trans and motor are OK and match. I'm OK with adding options - anyone have a shot of a body from underneith or apart that came with a 4 speed?

I need to be VERY cautious as to what I put in writing and say with regard to this car. I have asked the seller to take the car back, let's see what he says.

Dave

 

Sure they were. You are thinking of W-30s, not run of the mill 442s.

Also keep in mind that there was an over-the-counter cruise control retrofit kit available for dealer installation.

 

I wanna see this car, Any pix? Can't you throw us a bone? :-)

 

I wanna see this car, Any pix? Can't you throw us a bone? :-)
I have a 71 442 conv. and that is pretty much what I would like to do to mine.
auto to 4 spd
add:
PW
PL
8-Track
change color combo.

 

My heater box is out and I do not see a VIN derivative on the firewall. Granted part of my firewall is cut out, they tried to add A/C to a heat car, but most of the area behind the heater box is there. Does anyone have a specific location where this is or any pics?

 

That's one of the reasons I started The Firewall Stampings Thread Clik in there and scroll through till you find the pics you think best fit your car.

 

Thanks Allen, but I was looking for a VIN derivative locations on the firewall as stated by scrappie. Not firewall stamping.

 

See red34467 album

 

Nice looking car. If you're into correctness, it looks like they "forgot" the rear sway bar. Also those are W-30 side stripes instead of the base 442's 1/16", 1/4", 1/16" triple stripe, and the '442' emblem in the left front grille should have black-painted inlays instead of red.

 

Ok went to your album. Previous poster right about the stripes and 442 emblem and sway bar. Looks pretty nice though. Any feedback from seller?