Did olds offer a 3 speed Manual on the floor with console and bucket seats in 1972? I think the 3 speed code was m14. I think I found a convertible that has this.
Tim72

 

i cant say for sure on this. i have seen a couple bench seats with 3 speed floor shift but have never seen a console 3 speed. i will be interested to know also.

 

I agree with jensenracing77, the only 3 speed manual cars I've seen had bench seats.

 

The 4 speed was an option as were the other items. In principle, I think you could order any combination (subject to specific ordering restrictions). It is not as likely that someone would pay for buckiets and console but not get the 4 speed too.

 

Okay, guys, we're starting to sound like that Brand X forum.
Here it is:
1971 was the last year that a 3-speed floor shift (M14 Heavy Duty) was available, and it included a Hurst shifter. It was independent of a console and seats. (Console was option D55, and of course required bucket seats). Interestingly, a console could not be had with an M-14 on the base Cutlass model in '71.
The only floor shift manual in '72 and '73 was the M20 wide ratio 4-speed.

 

In the early 90s, I test drove a '71 Cutlass convertible with buckets, console, and a 3 speed manual...was advertised in my company newsletter by a woman in her mid/late 40s, the original owner. Was canary yellow with saddle interior and a white top. Price was $1500. I didn't buy it because it has some rust in the quarters. Dumb.

 

in highschool my best friend had a 72 cutlass with a 3 speed on the floor with bench seat and it was original.

 

How can you be sure of that? No offense, but lots of people have said (and believed) things like that with no proof. And my information could be wrong, but quite frankly I'd need to see proof to believe it.

 

i was with him when his brother got the car in around 1984 area. he got it from the original owner that by that time was an old lady that could not drive anymore. the protect o plate was there with her husbands name on it. i can not imagine they could have changed it from a 4 speed. not to mention it was a striped down post car with no options. i don't think it would have had a 4 speed. and i am sure it was an original manual transmission car. the car was owned by a well known lady in town.

i guess there is no way to prove it because i was not alive in 1972 but i have no doubt that it was original. i understand what you are saying about people knowing something without proof, believe me i have heard enough of that myself.

 

I looked in my 1972 Sales brochure (the SPECS book that Olds Salesmen got) and the base transmission in 1972 was still the 3 speed manual. 4 speed and AT were options. I tend to think that jensracing is telling it just like it is. A nice post coupe with very little options would definitely fit the bill of meeting the factory base at the time. I would agree that it's unusual to see a 3 speed from 1972, but not impossible. Don't know the answer to this one though: Were Olds 3 speeds also offered on the tree?

 

Theres a 68 Cutlass with a 3 on the tree in the big AZ junk yard.

 

My neighbor had a 70 back in the early 70's I would swear he said buckets and a 3 speed, I'll find out forsure. I owned a 70 Impala convertable 350 2bbl with a factory 3 on the tree. Weird things happened back then.

 

I worked with a fella in the mid '70's that had a '69 Cutlass with three on the tree!!!

 

3 on the tree would be a neat one to find. i have never drove one of those. i heard that they made them just never seen one.

 

What issue of the SPECS booklet are you looking at? Both the Sept 1971 and January 1972 issues clearly show the M20 4-speed as optional and the column shift 3-speed manual as standard.

Though the three on the tree was standard, they're pretty rare!!

 

Up until the early 1970s, the base transmission on most of the A-body cars was a column shifted three speed Saginaw. During that period, the base trans on the 442 was a floor-shifted Dearborn (read: Ford) three speed manual. The base interior on the 442 was bucket seats. The console was an extra cost option.

 

I have a 72 Cutlass S with factory 3 speed manual with Hurst shifter. Origional window sticker verifies this.Also, a while back on EvilBay I saw a sister car only with burnt orange exterior and Nemo painted all over it. Also verified factory 3 speed with window sticker. Origional owners son selling it.

 

Also. Factory Black bucket seats. Sorry abt the delete...

 

The SPECS booklet I have is for January 1972. I also have the leather bound dealers ordering guide for 1972. My apologies for a quick answer. This time I did a little more than a guick look to make sure I got it right.

According to the 1972 Olds Ordering guide for Power Train Module - manual Transmissions: when the 6 cylinder was discontinued, so was the 3 and 4 speed trans used with those engines. So were the 3 speed floor shift heavy duty (M14) and the 4 Speed close radio heavy duty (M22), so you're right on the money for that information......

Now I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that some of us might be thinking that this automatically turfs the 3 speed manual trans Soooo, read on....

That left the 3 speed (M15) which came in both column shift AND floor shift only available on the L32 or L34 350's - which was still listed as normal build (read unless optional automatic ordered) equipment transmission of the day. The 3-speed FLOOR SHIFT (1972) is also listed as as part of the 1972 performance Hurst Shifter (W39) and available only on the L32 or L34 engines. Availability for this option is listed as: Cutlass, Cutlass S coupes and Cutlass Supreme coupe and convertible.

There was also the 4 speed wide ratio (M20) only availaable on the L34 350 and L75 and L77 455's. You had to upgrade to get AT on all the Cutlass models.

With all this information taken directly from a GM ordering guide, I think it's highly likely that Jensracing's friend may have a legit 3 speed M15 floor shift on his 72. The GM information tends to contradict yours, but on the other hand, GM was and still is notorious for making changes during the model year; discontinuing some options and upgrading others. No, I'm not an expert on Olds. Never claimed to be. The only point of this is to look at all the possibilities. What's the source of your information that says the M15 is not available as a floor shift?
Here is Page 118 from the Product information binder (had to crop it into 2 sections to keep the print legible)

 

My apologies, guys. Allan, you are absolutely correct. The 3-speed manual floor shift does certainly exist. I just didn't look far enough.
I knew the "heavy duty" three speed was dropped for '72 as all of the big cars starting sporting automatics as standard equipment in 1972. I looked under Ms and Ns for the 3-speed floor shift and of course saw none. But there it is, big as life, W39 Floor shifter for the 3-speed manual. That is just a shifter option, same trans either way.
My apologies.

 

is this a great site or what! i am addicted to it and love the way things work to better everyone's knowledge. i have learned so much in just a short time on here. i wish i got a computer years ago.

 

Absolutely! Couldn't have said it better. And this is a reminder that I/we need to keep adding to the Olds Wiki site to document the results of this type of exchange.

 

Allen, I can't stress enough the importance of this. Researching is a lot more than just finding one source of information. We need to examine every source we can and then throw in some common sense to boot. Not every source is accurate and changes happen, so sometimes it is like having to hit a moving target.
Due to this uncertainty and lack of records, some say that "anything was possible from the factory". That is simply not true. Yes there are anomalies there, but wholesale "anything goes" just didn't happen.
Sources:
SPECS models and prices booklets (updated copies made during the model year)
Dealer Show Room Product Manual (one issue very early model year)
Chassis Service Manual (one issue very early model year)
Service Guild and Technical Bulletins (mid-year updates)
Inspectors Manuals
Various other minor sales/dealer/factory sources.
So a lot really goes into the research end of things.

Oh, and just to sum up the answer to the original question:
"Did olds offer a 3 speed Manual on the floor with console and bucket seats in 1972? I think the 3 speed code was m14. I think I found a convertible that has this.
Tim72"
The answer is yes, yes, and yes. But the option code for the 3-speed manual floor shifter is W39, not M-14. (That was easy!)

 

Good to know we're both on the same page. Cheers!

 

This has no console and has bucket seats 1971

 

Huh?

 

i owned a 71 cutlass convert was yellow, with a green bucket seat console and 3 speed manual...really nice car..horrible color combo..

i just parted a 70 cutlass S this summer...3 on th tree car with air

 

The trout fishing's good in Montana.

- Eric

 

I order it from the factory new 71 with ram air and three speed on the floor.

Just started to restore it

 

Just to add to the conversation, as odd as it may seem, in 1969 the 442 with the optional 3 speed Muncie (M14) with a Hurst floor shifter is a great package. 3 speeds is less driver work and the torque of the 400 engine doesn't need the first gear of 4. Here is a build sheet of my 442 with the M14 , console and buckets options.

 

This thread is five years old.

 

I know this thread is older than me but I want to add some info. In 66 there were 3 on the tree 442's with the Phord trans,not sure about 65 but I know for a fact there were 66 442's with that option. I had one and it now resides in Curt Anderson's collection. The three on the tree 442 option was dropped for 67. If fact if you ordered a Cutlass/F85 in 66 with a floor mounted 3 speed,you got the Phord trans but if you ordered a Cutlass/F85 with a column shift 3 speed,you got the Saginaw. The reason the Cutlass/F85 got the Phord trans was,there were no floor mounted shifters for the Saginaw.

 

I've been saying this for years. I had a 70 442 with factory 3 speed Hurst floor shift, non console, bucket seat car in high school (77-79). The 3 speed and 455 combo put a lot of whoop'in on big block 4 speed cars. I thought it was a Saginaw but I'm not sure. I have no idea what rear end it had but it was crazy fast.

 

They started using aluminum case Muncie 3 speeds in 70 if I'm not mistaken.

 

My 3 speed trans in my 70 442 convt was a saginaw cast iron trans case.

 

Apparently the Ford Toploader "Dearborn" trans was a real beast.

 

I did a little research in the 1972 Olds parts book into " heavy duty " 3 speeds.;

Group 4.003 Transmission , Syncromesh (complete)

65 thru 69 F-85 3 spd H.D. std. trans. #9793425
Footnote ; 1965 F-85 2nd type , fully syncronized

70-71 F-85 3spd S.T. H.D. #3952657 (floorshift) (Muncie)

72 F-85 3 spd S.T. #3974484

The first trans listed is the "Dearborn" trans , built by Phord. AKA "Toploader"
Probably the strongest 3 speed ever made . Pontiac shared this trans with Olds and Buick .
The second trans listed for 70-71 was a H.D. Muncie .
The 72 trans was not listed as heavy duty .

The popularity of H.D. 3 speeds back in the day was with the "under 25 "owners.
By the mid sixties , insurance companies were noticing a higher loss ratio with 4 speed equipped cars with "youthful" drivers .
They jacked insurance rates for 4 speeds driven by under 25 's sky high .
A "loophole" around this was to order a 3 speed .

 

Wasn't the '70 M-14 3-speed trans a Muncie? Thought '69 was the last year of the Saginaw 3 speed.

 

The Saginaw trans was NEVER factory installed in a 442, at least not after Feb 1965 when the Toploader was released. The 1965-69 cars got the Dearborn (don't call it a Ford...) toploader three speed. The 1970-up cars got the new Muncie HD three speed.

 

The only reason GM called it a Dearborn was it was too embarrassing to call it a Phord.