KVP

Looking at a very clean, original, one owner '72 Cutlass Supreme with a factory installed 455 as verified by the VIN. It has an automatic transmission. Were there any driveline or suspension upgrades included when ordering this motor?Also, what kind of a premium in dollars would this car be worth over an identical car with the standard factory installed 350? Thanks in advance for any input.

Allan R

1972 A body with 455s saw limited production so that car has a nice option. It would have been special order by a dealer or customer. The car would have been built using standard Olds production line build sheet parts for the application. It should have front fender braces but that's about all you can expect to see different.

The vin may say U code, but also check the block stamping pad to make sure the proper VIN derivative is there. Just a safeguard. If it's one owner also ask to see the repair history and original vehicle documents. They should be in the glove box.

It's worth slightly more than a 350 car if both cars are in identical shape and optioned. Post some pics of it.

joe_padavano

Just so we're clear, to the rest of the world, "special order" means a car ordered around the standard regular production option restrictions, like a COPO Chevy. This is NOT a "special order" combo. The 455 was a regular production option available to anyone who checked that box on the order form.

The U-code 455 cars are rare, as few were built. I believe Allan means that this was a built-to-order car and not a car that the dealership bought on spec to put on the lot, but we don't know that for sure. Certainly most of the spec-ordered cars were 350s. In any case, "built to order" is not what most people mean when they say "special order".

Allan R

Joe, I guess your "built to order" is a better way to put it as that's exactly what I intended it to mean. I used special order since that's really the only way that a 455 would end up in a 72 Cutlass Supreme. Standard engine was an L34. This one seems to have the L75.

KVP, is this car in Miichigan? If it's the Bamboo colored one and you buy it, any missing documentation is available from the GM Canadian Heritage centre. The car I'm looking at on Hwmmings seems to fit your description and is priced reasonably. It was originally sold in Canada so records exist for it.

oldsmobiledave

To answer the original question there was a driveline upgrade if you consider the installation of the T400 with the 455 vs the T350 trans that came with the base 350 engine.


U code cars are nice. In 1972 performance was on the way out. In stock form the car would accelerate nicely (by 1972 standards). If you want to go faster today then you have a nice foundation to build on.

KVP

Allan,
The car is in Michigan. You can see it by googling Grand Rapids Auto Gallery. Thanks for you input.

Keith

joe_padavano

That dealership has two U-code cars, the 72 Supreme and a 72 (alleged) 442. I'm skeptical of the latter being a real 442 due to the incorrect grilles, but it is a U-code car. Of course, it has the "original engine" with "new intake manifold, Edelbrock carburetor and an Erson camshaft"...

Doesn't sound very "original".

Bfg

The 72 Bamboo Cutlass has a 71 hood. Thought I would just throw that out there!

Allan R

yes, that's the one I was looking at. It's a very nice looking car.

in this case you'd be wrong. The hood is correct for a 1972 Cutlass without AC. Only the AC cars didn't have rear cowl vents in 72. For some reason all the A body line had them in 71. Have a look at the Cutlass AM for 72. There were 5 different hood options that year.

KVP

Haven't seen the blue modified "442" and probably won't. Have looked at but not driven the bamboo car which is located near where I live. I have an affinity for original cars with documentation and a history of good care and feeding. My '56 Super 88 (avatar) is one of those. Thanks for the input.

Allan R

So you're in MI too? From the description, this car would likely fit your requirements. I'd love to see pics of the engine compartment, trunk, and undercarriage. Look for wear on the brake pedal and accelerator. I see they've advertised it as a low mileage 26k car. I wonder if it's accurate with the 5 digit speedo. My car only shows 20k on the clock and the interior and body looks like it would support being that, but it's actually 120k. Ask to see service records.

Bfg

I would like to dispute the hood options for 72. Joe P. are you out there?

KVP

Will check all those things out. Will probably pay a fee to have a local mechanic evaluate it I'm sure that the odometer has rolled.

Allan R

You can dispute it all you want. From the 1972 Assembly Manual

joe_padavano

Thanks for the diagram.

Allan R

Anytime Joe. Sometimes the picture tells the story best. It's always nice to have validation from Oldsmobile.

vette442

The ad states that it's 126k miles with an engine rebuild at 121k. The engine is painted a corporate blue and the red hoses are not correct, so some detailing needs to be done. I'd love to see the cowl tag for that car - it may be the lighting in the pics but that interior color looks funky for some reason.
Terry

Allan R

Terry,
There is a picture of the cowl tag in the listing. This morning when I looked at it, there were only about 10 pics, now there are 90

Here you go


It is covert beige upper lower (PNT 50 50) . According to the trim plate it's also TRM 984, which should be a combination of cloth and vinyl instead of the white vinyl it's sporting now? Looked that up in my Dealer selling guide, which means this interior is not the original one the car was born with. Maybe I'm wrong, but Fisher didn't usually make mistakes like that. So much for all original huh? The trim that's in there now looks very much like 977.

1969w3155

You're right Allan, as 984 is Covert Gold cloth for the interior.

s i 442

At least the Keystone Klassic wheels help the looks of the other wise blah colored car.

1969w3155

No Canadian docs as it was sold new in Michigan about 20 miles north of me, Rypma has been around for quite awhile, and is still in business as a Chevy/GMC dealer. It appears to be two tone on the drivers side, with the door and front fender being the Covert Beige, while the rest looks to be more Sandalwood or Bamboo. I think getting a legit U code in that condition for that price ain't a bad deal.

Bozang1

FWIW, my car is a factory AC car and has those vents on the rear of the hood. I don't have the ones on the side though. Maybe that's only for 442's? Mine is a supreme. Boz

Allan R

Yes, but yours also has 1971 front grills, which suggests that a PO might have had a front end collision and used whatever replacement parts were available. IIRC you only recently got this car so you can't categorically say it came from the factory that way.

Bozang1

I cannot guarantee anything unless I'm the original owner, no one can. But I'm 99% certain that's the original hood. There's no signs of accident damage anywhere on the car and the paint under that black is the correct color according to the numbers. I don't see any reason why it would've been changed or why anyone would. It's not a "special" hood or anything. As a matter of fact, I looked at 2 other cutlass supremes (all 72's) and the both had those vents that were circled in the diagram. I know at least 1 was an AC car and it was the original owner/original paint etc (old lady) the other one I don't remember. I think it was a misprint on that diagram. Maybe they meant the side vents/louvers. Or like I said earlier, maybe this was only a certain model (442?). I'll have to go back and look at that diagram to see if it says, I don't recall seeing a designation. Who posted it? Maybe they could go back and look in person.

vette442

The hood louvers were used primarily on W-29 cars (hard tops and convertibles) and Cutlass S fastbacks in 1972. However, two of the 4 speed Supreme hardtops that I've owned also had them from the factory (original paint clearly visible in spots). One was a 455 with no A/C, the other one was a 350 with A/C. Weird.
Terry

Bfg

Ok I stand corrected

Bfg

What significance do these vents have if they differentiate between a/c cars and non a/c cars. And why wasn't this the case in 71 cars. Just curious.

Allan R

im the one who posted that reference picture. It came from my 1972 Ctlass Assemvly Manual. What I said is accurate.

Allan R

I also shared the same question about this because there's no difference between 71/72 AC systems. Only thing I was able to glean from others who are AC experts is that the lack of cowl vents allows the air intake to function better ( lower pressure air). Other tan that it's a mystery to me too.

If someone has an AC car from the factory with the vents, check the production date. It could be one of the early July/August cars that used up leftover 71 parts? This is comparable to some 71 models being built with 1970 fenders till new supply took over.

1969w3155

I do not see a power brake booster, manual brakes on a '72 Supreme?

Allan R

Good eye Dan. Stranger things have happened though. According to the SPECS and standard equipment, the option for J50 or JL2 was an upgrade from the standard front and rear drum brakes. Most dealers would include one form of power brakes because that was 'expected' of the general buying public and represented the overall regional demographics. If you also notice the factory 'standard for transmissions' was a 3 speed manual column shift. I've seen examples of CS where that happened, along with the chrome dog dish hubcaps. This type of optioning for the OP's car is not typical of the general orders for any of the Cutlass lineup in 72.

1969w3155

I can't take credit as my buddy's son spotted that, but it surprised me that the Supreme had them as an option. as I would have assumed (wrongly) that at least power drum would have been standard.

vette442

One of mine has manual front drums. The original owner sprung for buckets and console and a Rallye Pack, but cheap-o brakes...

Allan R

Terry, you talking about the 72 442 with the A51 seats? Presume it's a U code car?

vette442

My U Code 442 (close lane in my signature pic) has front discs. My 350 Cutlass Supreme (far lane in my sig. pic) has manual drums. The previous poster was surprised that you could get a '72 Supreme with manual front drums, but mine is more evidence that you could. ; )

Terry

Allan R

I was more surprised that you said the original owner popped for buckets. The CS came with buckets as a standard equipment item. That's why I asked if it was the 72 442. The 72 fastbacks came with an A52 seat as standard equipment. Hence the confusion.

KVP

My thanks to all who have looked a the pics of this car and analyzed it. Glad for the input. I probably wouldn't have caught the discrepancy on the interior upholstery. Got my puzzlement about the lack of power brakes answered. I'm not very fond of the the color,but I could live with it. The brakes could be upgraded to discs. My biggest reservation is its lack of AC. My wife has become afflicted in recent years with a heat intolerance due to an auto immune condition. For her to ride with me on days when the MI heat exceeds 80 degrees, I'll need AC. I've looked into installing Vintage Air in a '68-'72 Cutlass, and it looks like a three grand investment depending on how much I would farm out. That gives me pause. Haven't done any negotiating at this point so I don't know how firm the price is. Taking it slow here. Not looking to make money down the road, just don't want to get unnecessarily upside down.

Allan R

There's a lot of work to installing an AC system, including changing over the alternator to the left side, different water pump and pulley system, cutting the firewall for the evaporator box, pulling the dash pad and installing components etc. I don't want to rain on your parade; if I needed a car with AC, I'd move on to something else that is turnkey, and also has PDB.

Thank you for sharing the opportunity to review this car.

KVP

Allan,

You're not raining on my parade at all. I'm not jonesing for this car. I've learned a lot from posting this thread and will hopefully continue to learn as I go forward with my search. Thread readers who layed eyes on the pics and posted observations have been most helpful. I agree that it's better to find a car with factory AC. We drove a '72 Vista Cruiser for several years when our children were young. Loved that car and so have a real affinity for that era Cutlass. Hope I'm not looking for the needle in the haystack. I've seen a lot of Cutlasses with questionable pedigrees. Thanks again for your input.

Keith

s i 442

You would be better off buying a newer Corvette with air.