This is going up for auction in Monterey, California in a few weeks. Looks like a nice car.

I notice the car is "well documented." What's the difference between "well-documented" and just plain "documented?" Either a car is documented or it isn't, right? I mean, it's like being pregnant. One either is or isn't.

Anyone know anything about it or care to speculate what bids it will bring?

http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_de...gn=CA0812_S148

 

I saw that too With all of the documentation, you'd think they would know whether or not it has a dual gate

As you can see from this pic it does not have the dual gate (W26 option) as claimed

 

Interesting. It makes you immediately wonder what other aspects of the description are incorrect.

 

I for one would love to see just what documentation it does have. I'd venture to say it will fare quite well even in today's market. Not sure if this one has a reserve, or are all Dana Mecum auctions no reserve

 

Not at all. In fact, I would say that most cars they sell DO have a reserve, and there's often lots of negotiation with the seller at the last minute to drop the reserve if the bidding gets close to the reserve price.

Mecum does have some auctions with nothing but no-reserve cars. Bob McDorman of Bob McDorman Chevrolet in Canal Winchester, Ohio (just southeast of Columbus) had a big auction in November 2010 where he sold off his huge collection (100-ish?) of Corvettes plus lots of automobilia. If I'm not mistaken, ever single of one of the cars was sold at no reserve. McDorman was retiring and wanted them gone. A friend who lived around the corner from me (I lived in Ohio at the time) bought a nice '56 at that auction.

 

71 oil fill cap?

 

Wow. I love it when people can spot that level of detail!

 

it says
- Real 1970 W-30 documented by a letter from GM Heritage Center
only a letter? doesn't say build sheet, protecto plate etc etc it is a beautiful car...

 

I saw that, too, and I wonder what kind of documentation the Heritage Center can provide. I didn't know they were in the business of documenting cars. Documentation from them might be nothing more than "yup, Oldsmobile built 442 W-30's in 1970, and this sure looks like one of them."

I always thought "documentation" meant documents that came with the car like the window sticker, original selling invoice, broadcast card, build sheet if there is one, etc. plus the numbers-matching aspect.

 

Jaunty it says numbers matching carb codes , tranny codes etc but really no mention of "matching" vin deravitives, I am assuming that is taken for granted when one says numbers matching but I think due deligence would be required anyway. isn't there some code in the vin that confirms this as a w-30?

 

I would have to say by looking at the auction that the car may not be real. The Center will only tell you how many cars of that type were built. If there was one of the methods of documentation necessary to show the car was real any knowledgeable collector would have included it in the description. In addition if it is restored the rear spoiler and 3:91 would not be on the car because they could not be ordered on that car. I cannot say with certainty the car is real or not but I have never seen that car and us old timers know most of the real cars. Lee

 

Not until '72

Shouldn't the sport wheel horn cap be black?

 

In 70 the horn cap is interior color. 71 and 72 black.

The wheel well liner is missing the tar paper like flaps.

The thermostat housing is also 71 and up.

 

Cool, I did not know that. I learn something new everyday

 

How's that horn relay doin mounted right on the drivers wheel well!!!!!

 

Lee, I agree with you to a point - the car could be authentic, but it's a hodge podge of stuff that doesn't match.

I know there's been one or two white/gold cars that have been in magazines and/or ads in the past, so someone's gotta know whether this may be the same car. I recall Musclecars magazine featured a car like this, although it didn't have a spoiler when it appeared over 20 years ago.

 

Diego: I make a point to never say if a car is not real even if I know better. It is not my business. Often I know more than I let on because of being into these cars for 40 years. Those of us with the real cars that have been know for years are very sad to see so many made cars. I don't ever recommend buying a car that is represented as a w-30 unless it has bullet proof documentation. Broadcast cards have even been reproduced and aged so now even a broadcast card no longer convinces me of a real car. Because of the difference in the value many are motivated to try to get a buyer with emotion and little knowledge. One of my friends just sold a w-30 convertible that he bought at auction as real paid too much and sold the car at another auction. Buyer beware of course. Lee

 

Indeed!

 

Love that color combination of white and gold. If that were a hardtop I'd melt just looking at it....

 

For a white car, red or blue stripes are much more interesting to me.

But slap those gold stripes on a black car and I'd melt too.

 

Once again, I remain skeptical of any fully loaded musclecar that's had a complete resto. 99% of these cars were NOT fully loaded from the factory, yet every one for sale these days is. You do the math. The inner fenders look repro to me. Horn relay already pointed out. Of course the wing was never factory installed on a convertible. And for the money they want, they couldn't put a correct master cylinder in the car? What else is half-@$$ed?

 

I was thinking of painting mine white with the code 43 lime green for the stripe, but I ended up painting it opposite of that.

I should also mention there used to be a black with a gold stripe, authentic W30 around here, but the guy sold it because he would rather keep his 57 Chevy.... He's a friend of my uncle's. The guy drove by here one day, with his car and nearly took the ditch, staring at mine. These cars are pretty rare around here so he was probably surprised to see mine.

 

I don't believe this to be true. I believe that the horn button is black if the steering column or dash is black or compaticolour is not ordered (and it defaults to black). I can't see the horn button being a different colour than the steering column or dash in 71 or 72. I would say it is the same from 1970-77 (the only years these 4 spoke wheels were offered).

My 76 came with the same wheel and the horn button is blue since my car was ordered with the TA3 (blue) compaticolour "option".

Image083.jpg

Image082-1.jpg

 

I can't figure out the relay on the fender liner either. The darn holes are already in the fender!!!
I'm going to Pebble Beach next week, although I don't know if I will make it to Mecum (I had a bad personal experience with Dana Mecum and one of his "buyers" several years back). I am going to Gooding&Co. for sure---already registered.
It is so unfortunate that cars that are suspect have the tendency to make the REAL ones possibly appear cloudy. With ALL the ways to fake the car, paper work, P-O-Ps, unless you know the car from new, or know the seller and he/she is of the highest integrity, you have to keep your guard up when spending that kind of money.
Guys like Jerry MacNeish, or a Galen Govier are sometimes (IMHO) worth the time and money to clear all doubts of a suspicious car. I think I know these cars pretty well, and I HAVE been fooled, too. There are some good counterfeiters out there and they are WAY SLICKER than I EVER WANT TO BE!!!!
This car COULD be the real thing, and I'm not saying it is or it isn't, but some stuff sure doesn't add up----OR the restorer and owner having paid for the restoration should have consulted some experts before this presentation.

 

Galen or Jerry are nice, but they aren't as nice as PHS or the Marti Report.

 

You're car's interior is beautiful, by the way . As much as what you say makes sense, i wouldn't apply this to all '70-'77 cars. The '70 assembly manual lists five different sport wheel pad colors and part numbers. Speaking specifically to 1972, i've seen original documented, unrestored cars with interiors other than black that still had the black pad for the sport wheel. In addition, the '72 assembly manual only shows one color for the sport wheel pad, identified as BLACK 399325.

 

Ken, In the 70 assy manual sect 9 page 120 it shows the 4 spoke wheel cap. It has a chart. You can get Black, Dk Blue, Dk Gold, Dk Green & Dk Brown.

In the 71 assy manual sect 9 page 124 it shows the chart with only Black.

In the 72 assy manual sect 9 page 124 it shows the chart with only Black.

I would also agree that in 70 it probably matched the column and dash.

Don't know about 73 -77.

By the way your car interior looks great. Bob

You beat me to it Joe.

 

Bob, Joe, I don't have the 71 or 72 assembly manual so I'll defer to your knowledge on this. I just thought it strange that the horn button would be different as my interior is original (and I've owned this car since 1979). I have also learned to say "Never say never". By the way, thanks for the compliment on my interor.

 

Same here. I haven't corresponded with him in years, but Paul Martin in Vancouver has/had an "all green" '71 W-30 convertible (Canada-documented, of course) and the horn button on this car was green to match the interior.

Getting back to this thread topic, some of these restored "well-documented" cars disappoint me for the same reasons that Joe Padavano and others pointed out.

 

It also mentions the t-81 Night-Watch which was not available with the U-21 rally pac. A/C wasn't available with the G88 3.93 gears.Also they forget to add the cruise control.

 

Well, it's got "boxed sway bars"...it's got to be real! lol It's missing the open face alt, a hard to find big buck item. The rear stripes don't look straight, like parallel with the sidelight. I've seen like 3 cars with stripes like that in the last 2 weeks. Right, it says matching code engine, so it's probably not matching numbers engine. I've seen gold stripes, I've never seen that color top before. Could have been available, I'm too lazy to look it up!