oldsmosteel

would of never believed it if i hadn't seen it myself. i noticed the old 4 door car in someones open garage w/ half the engine removed & a for sale sign propped up underneath the hood. seeing that it was an old cutlass i figured i'd take a closer look. the 1st thing the owner tells me is that the car has an original 400 big block 442 motor & that the car used to be an old police car somewhere on the east coast. i'm thinking "yeah right" but after a quick check of the casting number on the block & heads (Block cast # 390925 E cylinder head # V204927G) i determined that indeed it was an original 442 400ci big block. although the current owner has no documentation about it being a police vehicle the car itself has some very interesting options... all factory 14" steel wheels w/ front disc brakes, 1" front sway bar, auto trans, rear sway bar & a posi rearend. speedometer reads in small white letters "certified police speedometer". exterior of the car is white. interior is red. there is a large hole drilled out on the top of the rear drivers quarter panel where the owner says the large antenna was mounted. from my obersvations i'm pretty sure that it was an old police car.

there isn't a whole lot of information on the web about the b07 b09 police optioned oldsmobiles & most of what i've read seems to be more focused on the larger B bodied ie delmont etc cars not the A body vehicles f-85 cutlass etc. i know there where 2 police options offered back then one for
city police & another more heavy duty option for the highway patrol. car is 90% complete. not running, solid straight sheet metal but rusty floor boards. more than likely the beast will need a full restoration

questions:

can someone give me more information about which one of the 2 police options this car might have?

would something like this be worth restoring? or pull parts to build another olds. i know restoring a 4 door sedan is kinda like wining & dining a hot chick's not so pretty sister.

what would the value on something like this be (as is)?

how would i find info on this old police car? location of police service etc?

ill try to post pics... took some cell phone shots to prove everything but cant get my stupid BB to upload.

Martin

droldsmorland

B01: Police Apprehender - City Cruiser (1966, 67, 68, 70).
B-01: Police Apprehender - City Cruiser w/Heavy Duty Suspension (1969).
B02: Special Body, Taxi Cab.
B07: Special Body, Police Car.
B-07: Police Apprehender - Highway Patrol (1966 - 68, 70 - 72).
B-07: Police Apprehender - Highway Patrol w/Heavy Duty Suspension (1969).

How does your Vin read? Does this look like an unmolested car? Or a Hodge-podge?
E on the block = 66-67 400. 39* cam bank with .921 lifters,(442 engine).
On the heads the V204927G indicates a high compression 400 head. There should be a large C cast into it with PN 394548. Anyone could have dropped a 442 engine in that car. Valid paperwork will help authenticate.
The certified speedo head is another sign it was an Apprehender. But a crafty person could have that stenciled on to a regular head.
The HD suspension goodies also contribute authentication. What are the numbers off the trans? It should be a TH400 short tail.
I do have some other info but just moved so some of the above is from memory some is off 442 dot coms FAQ. I don’t remember this package being available other than the 64, 442.
The Apprehender was available on Delmont & Delta again not sure on the F85s. I've only ever seen Delmont’s and Deltas. You could have a special order fleet car? You could have ordered a 400 in a 4 door in 67. With the right channels you could have bolted together almost any combo.
The Apprehender B body cars had the 425 in 66-67 then the 455 from 68-70.
http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/..._feature8.html ….this link has more info and some clubs which is most likely the best source for accurate info on how to document this if it is the real deal.
I'll dig for more info when I can.

oldsmosteel

1st of all thanks for the quick reply.

1)Vin 33697M173391 does not match the cylinder heads but matches the cowl tag.

2) yes, the car "appears" to be original... paint, interior, suspension etc. looks like a plain jane old beater mobile. everything on the car looks just as aged as the car itself. i couldn't find a single aftermarket part on it. everything appears to be original to the car... & very much used. current owner has the original California pink slip from 1969 purchased by the previous owner a lady who past away sometime ago. from what the current owner tells me it was last registered in 1985... stopped running & parked in a field. the current owner bought it in the mid 1990's & pulled it out of the field & has been storing the car in his garage ever since. the gentleman is probably late 60's early 70's seems honest. i called the DMV & gave them the lic plate number & vin... they have no records of the car which makes sense w/ his story.

3) i didn't even look at the transmission so i'm not sure about the #'s on it. i make deliveries for a living & peeped the car between deliveries on my route. where are those numbers on the transmission located? drivers or passenger side?

i did find this online... granted its from one year later 1968 but the way the olds engineer is talking there was a police option for prior f-85's. (see Louckes first comment http://www.442.com/articles/68copcar.html)

thanks again for the info. ill post pics as soon as i upload. anything else i should look for?

Martin

Oldsmaniac

From the literature I have seen I dont think the 400 was available in the Cutlass series Police Cars. But I am not sure.

GAOldsman

1967







Hemmings: The 1967 Oldsmobile B07 snapped Dodge's streak as the CHP's cop car supplier--for just one year

Oldsmaniac

I stand corrected, thanks for the police literature!

GAOldsman

No problem, Oldsmobility I think is on here (thanks for the docs) as well as VistaCruiser67 for the cool video, I just compiled them and if ya search hard enough, you can find some good info on previous years as well Also the Hemmings article is a pretty good read.

Oldsmaniac

This car if legit would be extremely rare and deserved to be preserved and restored. Grab it if you can. As far as value it is hard to say what demand would be. Rare does not always mean high value.

GAOldsman

Amen to that and unfortunately you are 100% correct as there is a value but the market is very limited

oldsmosteel

good advice.. & well taken.


thanks for the vids & literature oldsman.


finally got pics uploaded...

GAOldsman

I guess the million dollar question is how much does he want for it? As is I see less than $1500 value at very most. Honestly it would take more $ to make it a driver than it would fetch if you were to try to buy to re-sale. I may be wrong but this is what I see.

GAOldsman

Maybe I should re-iterate the $1500 max is for the car as is not a value of the compilation of parts as I know the $ is there on parting it out. Someone needs to save it for sure, but out of the passion of salvaging Olds history not to mention police history and not out of trying to make a buck while destroying history.

hurst68olds

Somewhere around 250 "Police" F85 & Cutlass (A-body) cars were built in '67. Cop cars have a pretty good following with retired police making up the majority of the market.

In your first post with the VIN, you are missing a "6" digit, the "Z" CA plate would've been issued during the '69 model year, so the possibility of it being a CA based "cop car" for a few years seem plausable.

The VIN# indicates a 11/66 Lansing MI build. The engine unit (head) number and the body number on the firewall shouldn't match the VIN#.

Did you get a pic of the firewall tag? What info is on it?

oldsmosteel

$1300 cash. & yes, will take a lot more money & work to make it reliable & road worthy again.

66400

I'd give 2K for it so fast the seller's head would still be spinning! It's a unique piece of history.

Henry

Oldsmaniac

Well a few years ago I paid 3000 for a shell of a 67 442. Parts are pretty easy to get for these..... If I were crazy in love with the 4dr police car I could see myself paying about the same for it.

MDchanic

That V______G engine number is definitely a 442 number.

Contrary to what Olsmorland said, the number between the V and the G should NOT match the VIN - that is for '68 and later cars, ONLY. The earlier ones did NOT get matching numbers.

Looks like an interesting car, but definitely like a full restoration candidate, rather than a "fix and go."
I agree that from what I see, it looks like an original PD car.

As far as the sisters go, I would much prefer to take out the less attractive one, since she is far less likely to be vain and finicky, and far more likely to be fun to be with.
I feel the same about 4-doors, wagons, and similar cars - they will often put out a lot more fun than high-dollar trailer queens .

- Eric

Octania

"Does the last 6 of vin match the 204927 on the head?"

Not for 1967 it won't; the head stamp is the Engine Unit Number, unrelated to VIN or body number.

$1300?
Why are we waiting?
One of my favorite rules: LAST TIME SEEN, NEVER = BUY

A '67 400 is worth that much!
I see a 12-bolt posi, undoubtedly has a TH400...
no hood blanket, nor evidence that there was one- glued fibers or plastic holder tabs. Weird.


UHV ignition? Did you say DISK brakes?

Look in the glovebox, maybe the Protecto-Plate is still there- it will have the original Engine Unit Number on it. And owner.

I would like to see it preserved as the professional car, not parted out.

Get the body tag info up here.

hurst68olds

That's a 10-bolt as it should be.

Does it have a smog pump and/or the plugs in the heads?

65B01Delta

Nice Find. I would buy it in a Heart Beat !!!

1970supremevert

dual exhaust,& looks like a posi tag, looking more like a rare find..

sammy

Agreed.....

edzolz

A number of years ago I was looking through a yard in Princeton, TX and happened upon a 66 Vista Cruiser. It had a 400 engine, three speed on the tree, and the speedometer said the same thing "Certified Police Speedometer". They wouldn't sell the whole car because the title had already been turned in as scrapped vehicle. Don't know any history on the car.

oldsmosteel

yes, front disc brakes w/ factory 14" steel wheels. i checked the glove box & found a crispy old original owners manual for '67. yes, this thing should be preserved & will be. my uncle who works as a correctional officer outta state wants to buy the car but before he drops the cold hard cash just wanted me to verify it's authenticity.

oldsmosteel

indeed you are correct about the missing "6". i suppose it's possible about it being a CA police car since it is a CA pink slip. cool info on the '67 A-body cop cars... where did you find that info? i've searched & searched.. havent found anything on A-Body B07 optioned cars except for what oldsman posted earlier. here are pics of the fire wall tag & vin

MDchanic

Well, if that seller knows what he's doing, he won't cross your uncle - I've never met a crazier group of ***** than COs. Prob'ly burn his house down and stand around roasting marshmallows if he lies about the car.

- Eric

oldsmosteel

true about that... the stuff he's lived through & seen would make anyone a lil crazy.

hurst68olds

I was hoping there was something on the tag that was unique, but it's pretty standard stuff.


"provincial white" C-C with red bench seat interior 935-A

tinted windshield (W), rear defog (3B) & deluxe seat belts (5Y)

11B = November '66 2nd week

droldsmorland

Thanks MD glad we "police" each other here (pun intended). I was in 68 mode again. Deleted that line!
So in 66-67 the only way to verify a factory installed engine/trans is POP plate? What other paperwork would be valid? Id imagine a window sticker or original order info etc...

66400

By using the engine unit # V204927G and the engine block casting date you get an idea as to the logical time frame in regards to the 11B assembly date. Seems ok to me. The engine unit# shows it one of the 1st 5,000 67 400 engines built and the car was assembled in the 1st 4 months of production. Not proof positive but very likely.

Henry

Oldsmaniac

With info posted I would say the car is legit. Typically I would think the car had a plainer interior upholstery and a rubber mat on the floor rather than carpet. Much like a bare bones F85 would have. Really would be a cool car to have.

GAOldsman

I am thinking detective car hence the luxuries such as the carpet etc.....

GAOldsman

Looks like we have a Police Apprehender w/ L77

stevengerard

I agree definitely worth the money as its a low dollar price for entry. Yet it will only be worth so much to a small but loyal market. I too would love a 4 door police car or a station-wagon one day - this would be a cool way of getting a rare car.

I'm guessing a detective car as well since there is no signs of a previously mounted spotlight on the a-pillar.

droldsmorland

Harry Callahan?

joe_padavano

Count again. That's a Type O, as it should be in a 67 Cutlass. 12 bolt cover, 10 bolt ring gear.

As for the police package cars, I'll add a story told to me by a friend in the SoCal OCA chapter who worked in the L.A. police motor pool in the 1960s. He says that they had L-69-engined 1966 four door Cutlii police cars, that he personally witnessed and worked on.

wmachine

I don't know if it is the counting or multiplication that is the problem, but that is a 10 bolt P-type rear, and *that* is what it should be. And it is most likely housing a 4-pinnion carrier. The vast majority of the performance rears in '67 were the P-type including the W30s. They had problems with the performance gears in the new O-type 12/10 bolt rear that they didn't get sorted out until the '68 model year.

wmachine

Another source for the Police options is the SPECS bookets on Wild About Cars:
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...aldisplayed=50

The literature posted earlier in this thread from the Oldsmobility site is all items that I have and gave to Keith to post on his site many years ago. I'll be posting them in complete and sharper format on Wild About Cars when I get a chance.

Wild About Cars. http://wildaboutcars.com. An information supersource, especially Oldsmobile. More Olds content than anywhere else on the internet and continuing to grow.
You'll find Chassis Service Manuals, Product Information Manuals (AKA Assembly Manuals), Inspector's Manuals, and other documents that will contain this and much much more.
Dealer Brochures, magazine ads and articles, and the Automotive History Preservation Society library growing daily.
Free to join, free to learn.

Octania

I stand corrected, I see one bolt centered at the bottom on the posi, so 10-bolt.

Disk brakes are EXCEEDINGLY rare for 1967. Must be the uber-rare 4 piston calipers. I'd want to see every detail of this car. Convertible boxed HD frame is possible.

It still adds up to LAST TIME SEEN NEVER = BUY NOW

Worst case, it's a "faux" car [seems very unlikely] with all these right parts. Still a cool thing to have. I don't see the problem with a 4dr myself. You can always do the shortening, right?

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...expletive.html

GAOldsman

No! Please whoever buys this do not do this to it