Has anybody moved there starter solenoid up to the firewall or fender area??And if so where would be the best place to put it and what am i looking into as in changing existing electrical connections?? Qbviously i would have to get a new starter w/o solenoid and was wondering if someone makes a electrical kit to do this.Wanted to acheive more clearance for the headers and get it away from the heat.
Have 72 Cutlass Convertible 350 Rocket/4 barrel automatic

 

I don't know if they make starters with inertial ("Bendix") drives for GM cars - that's a Ferd thing...

- Eric

 

And reliable at that. I am waiting for the starter or solenoid in my Ford to finally give trouble...

 

It won't do anything for header clearance, but I fixed a hot start problem when I had headers, with a GM#15591718 starter relay. I bent the bracket flat and mounted it to the firewall. Used a factory conn body from some old harness and it looks correct as hell! Google "hot start solenoid" then look for "Scotts nova resource site" for instructions. I used the alternate method at bottom of the page. No problem since, even on hottest days.

 

Hey - Keep the compliments about other marques in the "Non-Olds" section!

- Eric

 

A couple of folks have done the ford thing, I'll dig around this weekend and see if I can find it, know its been done

 

I was thinking on doing a Ford type starter solenoid for my ministarter. The ministarter does not have an ignition output for the distributor.

 

but i think the ford solenoids do.

 

Here's exactly what you are describing in kit form:

http://madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml

 

Call me crazy, but all this kit would appear to do is to add a second relay into the starter circuit, while retaining the original relay (the solenoid), which is necessary to throw the starter into engagement with the flywheel.

This would eliminate any unreliability in the original solenoid's electrical relay function, but if the starter or solenoid is not working properly because it is too hot, I'm not sure how this would help.

Now, if you could put an inertial bendix on a GM starter...

- Eric

 

MDchanic>>Franks post,if ya do the Hot Start Solenoid search explains i think the concerns you were talking about.I was thinking the same thing!!

 

I don't think you will find a starter to fit without a solenoid mounted to the starter. The mini starters work pretty well even under heat. The ford relay connected to the starter solenoid works well. The reason being lots of amps to power the starter solenoid and a few less resistance points. If you have a rebuilt starter on the car the solenoid may be a bit inferior to the OE which also had hot start problems. Heat will reduce the electro magnetic strength, causing a no start condition. The ford relay supplies power directly from the battery with LOTS of amps to spare as opposed to maybe 30 amps coming thru the ign. switch. If you buy a starter or a solenoid, you should be aware that all solenoids are not alike. A lot of the bargain starters have a solenoid with about 100 winds compared to a good one with about 130 winds. That is a big difference in pull in power. If someone wants to buy a cheap starter, that is what they will get a cheap product. GM found that by reducing the amount of spring pressure the hot start problem would be less severe. They made a shorter spring with less tension. This is something I discovered and corrected many years before GM figured it out. If you decide to forgo the mini starter or the ford relay, buy a high quality solenoid and use the short spring under it. It will go a long way to help correct the heat soak hot start problem. A heat shield will also help.

 

Eric, you are exactly correct, which is why I have to laugh at these Ferd solenoid kits. The Delco starter MUST use the solenoid on the starter to engage the bendix. The hot start problem is caused by one of two things, either excessive resistance in the circuit that runs from the battery to the NSS to the ignition switch to the solenoid, or pitting on the contacts in the starter or solenoid itself. A new solenoid and new brushes (with a cleaned up commutator) fixes the latter. Any relay that minimizes the run from the battery cable to the S terminal on the solenoid fixes the former. Use the existing wire to the S terminal to trigger the relay and use the relay to trigger the solenoid, dramatically reducing voltage drop.

 

And, in fact, Joe, that is exactly what I will be doing "when I get around to it" to my Chevelle - I had a devil of a starting problem to diagnose - finally turned out to be resistance in the "Start" circuit - there was enough continuity to dim the lights and show 30A draw, but not quite enough to actually pull the solenoid in all the way. It's easier to install a little $4 relay on the firewall than to clean every posible connection in the darn circuit.

- Eric

 

I can't tell you how many times I've pulled that solenoid apart to clean the contacts and turn the contact disk over, lol. Worked like a dream every time.

 

Yup.

My father showed me that trick when I was a little kid.

- Eric