When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Looks like it is time to wake the cars up. Before starting the 1971 Cutlass, I changed the alternator and am half way through changing the regulator. I was surprised by the amount of rust on the regulator. Connector #3 was actually so bad I couldn't get the plug off at first.
Is this typical? Next problem/question is what to do with the plug. I dont really see a good way to clean it. Would it be OK to maybe cut the connector off and put an individual connector on each wire?
And last, what is the part in the second picture? It was plugged into the top of the regulator. Are they worth replacing or are they generally good to leave alone?
Thanks everyone!
Last edited by 71OldsCut; April 25th, 2020 at 01:03 PM.
I would try sanding , or cleaning it. I think you can push the wire out some so to clean it. I take like a small jewelry screw driver, and wrap it with some emery cloth, and sand it, then put some of that elect gel on the ends, The other thing is a condenser.
And last, what is the part in the second picture? It was plugged into the top of the regulator. Are they worth replacing or are they generally good to leave alone?
Originally Posted by 442Harv
The other thing is a condenser.
Yes, it's a condenser, and it's there to minimize ignition noise coming through the AM radio, which was a much more significant problem back in the day when most cars had only AM radios. You probably don't need it. Who listens to AM radio any more? And even if you do, modern radios do a much better job of shielding ignition noise.
Thanks guys. Maybe I will just order a new connector from Rockauto. I wont be able to get one locally.
As long as that condenser cant hurt anything I will put it back on. I'm just trying to change anything that could possibly be causing my HEI distributors to keep failing.
One thing I noticed when changing the alternator - there are the two wires on the top stud connection, the plug below that, but then there is also another small stud connection near the bottom that has nothing connected. Should something be connected here?
You may be able to get the individual metal terminals out of the connector body by using a small flat screwdriver to depress the locking tab then pull the terminal out.
Below is a pic showing the locking tab. While these terminals are not exactly the same as on your wiring harness, they lock into the connector in a similar manner.
x2 ^^^^ i just did this on some speaker wire jacks just depressed the tab and the spade comes right out .Then used my dremel tool with wire wheel on it and clean them up and reinserted them .Keep track of where each wire is in the plastic plug.
Nice. I didnt know the connectors could be taken out. I will try that tomorrow.
Is it typical for these to get rusty like this? Not sure exactly how these work but could something like this cause voltage spikes or irregularities that could damage electronics?
Yes I would do a Kenneth said. If you buy another connection and splice that in there will be another spot for corrosion problems. You can actually buy a special tool that has ends that will push in to factory connections and remove the terminal, but a small screwdriver or ***** should work. Then you can clean it up w/ wire brush,sandpaper, etc. As far as the rust, it looks like water went right down into it, doesn't it?? Three of the connectors look much better than the one. Somehow water actually dripped down there? Let us know how it goes!
You could also buy new terminals and a crimping tool. Replace the terminals and insert them back into the connector housing. They are most likely Packard 56 terminals. I have done this on some of my connectors and it works great, Apply a little dielectric grease to each terminal and it will be good for another 50 years.
If you go with the Dremel and wire brush, that works well also but please, make sure to wear safety glasses. Those tiny brush wires like to fly off at any speed.
Nice. I didnt know the connectors could be taken out. I will try that tomorrow.
Is it typical for these to get rusty like this? Not sure exactly how these work but could something like this cause voltage spikes or irregularities that could damage electronics?
The worst rusted connection is where the regulator senses system voltage. If this circuit is broken or bad it will cause an overcharge condition. That may very well be your problem. Replace or freshen up the connections and try it again.
Great! I am excited to get this done and let time tell if it was the problem. I'm feeling less excited about the new regulator I got - a Standard Motor Products VR103.
I was placing a large rockauto order, mostly for another car and figured I would get it. I was looking at others as well as this one on Summit yesterday and there looks to be a lot better options there. This one actually has some bad reviews. Oh well, it's the one I have now. If it works great, if not I will order another or maybe try one from Napa.
Perfect, lol. That actually seems to be the case for a lot of products lately. Hopefully I got a good one. What should the voltage meter read, 14ish I seem to recall. If it is off i am hoping low rather than high...
Bad grounds are what's killing your HEI modules. Are you applying the heat paste under the modules?
Clean all engine compartment grounds.
You should have a ground strap from the engine to the firewall.
Make sure both ends of both battery cables are clean. Are the battery cables in good shape?
Check the connections at the horn relay.
Pull the firewall bulkhead apart and check for rust. Pull the fuses and look for nice clean connections.
Clean up the alternator connections too.
I went with the solid-state reg 20 years ago, no problems since.
Make sure the regulator is grounded well.
Battery terminal spray protector and die-electric grease will keep connections alive longer. You should make this part of routine maintenance.
Alright, overall a success in terms of it started, ran, after high idle settled into a nice smooth idle, no leaks or odd noises/smeels. BUT, when the car was first started and getting into high idle the voltage was anywhere from 12 to 16. After it settled down it was bouncing back and forth from about 13.8 to 14. I did notice the generator light flickering occasionally with the busing noise while warming up. After it was warm and settled into the normal idle the light was off, and volts still bounced between 13.8 and 14 or so.
If I revved it gently to just 1000RPM (wasn't willing to go any higher) the busing noise came back and the light came on with the volts going to 15. I was worried reving higher would create higher volts and cook some stuff.
So, with all that said and considering the alternator is new too, is it safe to assume I got a crap VR right out of the box like a lot of the reviews? I would think the alternator is probably fine. If that is the case, is there any other brand that people have had good success with? I will probably order one from Summit this time. Napa has a few but the descriptions don't really say solid state or not. On that note, is there any big advantage from non-solid state to solid state other than not needing that condenser piece?
Thanks guys, appreciate all the help and tips. It was really nice after the long winter to get out there and hear it run again, even if not perfect yet.
Thanks for the grounding info and tips. I did clean the connections to the alternator just now. The battery cables are in good shape and the connection to the block was cleaned last year. I have a new strap for the engine to firewall connection. I will change that and look at the other suggestions you made too.
Also, somehow isn't the modules that are being killed. I have a spare in the glove box with the thermal paste. When the car goes into its sluggish barely driving mode I changed the module and it made no difference. But, changing the whole HEI (under warranty) always fixes it. I suppose it could be the coil.
Last edited by 71OldsCut; April 26th, 2020 at 09:46 AM.
If the reg is buzzing, it is not a solid state. It is a very good possibility that the rotor in the rebuilt alt is not compatible with the mechanical reg. Even though the rotors look very similar they may have a different amp draw. If this is the problem a solid state reg will work with an incorrect rotor. Often large re builders will interchange rotors. I assume the connections have been cleaned.
Ok, I will go pick up a solid state and see what happens. I dont think it is the actual VR that is making the noise. I hear it loud in the car when the light comes on. It's the same noise it makes if the keys are in it with the door open when it's not running.
On that note, is there any big advantage from non-solid state to solid state other than not needing that condenser piece?
The only difference that I ever noticed was at idle the vehicle's lights didn't flicker with the solid state relay whereas they do with the mechanical relay.
Note that I said "do" as in I am still using a mechanical voltage regulator. I discovered back in the early 90s that the mechanical regulator was much more robust than the solid state regulators. I was having alternator issues that also took out the voltage regulator and I went through several while troubleshooting the issue. I was able to repair the mechanical regulator but was not able to repair the electronic regulator (I worked in electronics failure analysis and repair). The mechanical regulator just had a wire melt due to current overload and I was able to simply solder in a new wire, but there was no way to replace components in the solid state regulator. So my car is still using a repaired mechanical voltage regulator from the 90s and I have a second one in the tool box as a backup.
Many years ago, I purchased a small container of copper based paste meant for electrical connections (made by Thomas and Betts). Looks like Never-Seaz paste used on bolts, but its copper based and copper color. Gives good electrical conductivity and corrosion protection. I used it on my my plugs, headlights, tail lights, etc. Helps with the connection and they come right off later.
I was thinking the same about being able to return it locally. We don't have Autozone, or really any good parts stores. Napa has a few options ranging from about $20 to $120, but the descriptions don't really say much about them. I will have to call tomorrow, hopefully they have a clue what I am talking about and they can get one in before the weekend. I do envy you guys in the US with your wrecker yards and part stores, lol. It looks like they also can get the VR connector and an alternator connector. Perhaps I will pick up those too since they are cheap.
Hi, thinking about the comment above about grounding and battery connections possibly causing issues I remembered when reconnecting the negative terminal, though clean, seems to be oversized for the post. It tightens up and makes a solid connection, but is basically as tight as it can go so I was going to replace just the connector but figured why not the whole cable. Looks like my options are 4 gauge or 1 gauge. Does anyone know what is stock, and if its 4 is there any harm in going to 1?
Other than a CD player and some aftermarket speakers I think everything else is stock in terms of power consumption. As long as it doesn't hurt anything I might go to the 1 gauge.
I'm not sure what the previous owner did with the battery. I got it with a side post battery that had the post adapters screwed into the battery. I changed it to the proper top post because the negative cable was wedged in so tight and almost touching the radiator. The positive cable fits good but the negative doesn't and like you say is probably because it is for the positive side.
Hello again, I am just looking at some alternators online and see that on certain sites there are different alternators for A/C and Heavy duty cooling and others that don't have these. The ones without advertise 37/42 amps and ones with the cooling advertise 55/63 amps. It looks like the one I have is advertising 61 amps. Could any of this be the issue or it really doesn't matter as long as the minimum that the car needs is met or exceeded? I don't have A/C so I think it is fine...
The comment above about a possible incompatibility with the alternator internals and the regulator got me thinking. Turns out NAPA here sells basically the same thing I have already, or the guy on the phone didn't know what I was talking about. I think I will get a new solid state regulator from Summit and see if that makes any difference.
Well, I figured I would try switching back to the old reg after cleaning up the connections to try and confirm if the new reg was bad before getting another. When I started the car the voltage was a lot more stable, but only showing 12 or so on the gauge and the GEN light was on solid. I only ran it for a minute or so, but there was no buzzing and when gently revved it didnt spike like last time, just raised slightly.
I then thought maybe with the connections cleaned up the old regulator is working so I wondered if the gen light was on because the new alternator isn't charging. Swapped the old one back in and tried again. GEN light still on but voltage also stead, this time a little higher around 13 and also not spiking when gently revved.
So all that said, would it be safe to assume the new alternator is probably fine and the new regulator is garbage? Or, is the new alternator bad and the gen light is on because running it took juice out of the battery? Or, are both bad and I should try again with some different parts, lol.
Interesting development - I keep seeing in pictures of these alternators the small third connection point says ground but mine has nothing connected there. I found a post on here from 8 years ago verifying nothing needed here, but they talked about a small wire off the negative battery in his case going to the radiator.
I know for sure mine didnt have this wire. Turns out I was half right. It is there, just severely corroded and fell down beside the battery.
The 8 year old post actually said this wire is very important. What exactly does it do, and maybe as drolds kept saying it is a grounding issue after all that's killing my HEI.
Well, given how corroded the end is I think it would be best to replace the whole wire rather than just redoing the end and reconnecting it. I am going to be very happy if that simple repair fixes the HEI saga... Would this have anything to do with the alternator/VR/GEN light issues too?
No, that simple fix is not going to cure any of your issues. The negative cable connects to the block providing a ground to the engine. In addition there is a little ground strap on the back of the engine that connects to the firewall.
Does your generator light come on with the key in the run position and the engine not running? If you turn the key to run position and don't start is the gen lite on? If not, check your fuses.
With key in run position but engine not running the GEN light comes on.
Looks like more surprises. Probably not causing the problems, but the 20 amp fuse for DIR SIG/BACKUP was blown. The glass was broken and was cloudy inside, but was wrapped with foil from a cigarette pack. The lights still work so I guess the foil was working? I had a spare 20 so I put that in. The two 10 amp fuses above and below that one are not blown but look rusty on the inside of the glass at one of the ends. I dont have spare 10 amps so I will go get some and see what happens.
Last edited by 71OldsCut; April 28th, 2020 at 06:12 AM.
Ah, the old foil over the fuse trick, not good. Is the distributor body grounded to the block, no paint or gunk keeping it from grounding Just trying to think of the simple stuff.
April 25th, 2020, 12:40 PM
