synoptic12

Hello,

I'm seeking technical assistance in trying to locate a two button power window switch with escutcheon for a 1986 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Brougham, 5.0 Liter (G Body).
I've tried OPG, GM, AND practically everywhere on the internet. Finding the switch is no problem, it is trying to locate the escutcheon (bezel) which covers the switch.
Enclosed is a picture of the type escutcheon I'm looking for. I will also show a picture of what GM lists as the part number for my vehicle. However, GM is wrong. My part is discontinued. My switch is the woodgrain.
Any and all information is truly appreciated. Thank you.

Rickman48

From what I'm seeing, you should be able to remove the cover, and replace the switch by itself.
If not, take the old switch apart, [they have clips on the sides] and see what the problem is.
I've cleaned and reassembled them, and they worked, or if broke internally, used parts from the new switch.

synoptic12

I need the "ESCUTCHEON", not the switch.

2blu442

Create a parts wanted thread with a picture of the one you want. Also if you've not found oldspower.com you might check there as that site has more G-body owners that we do here. John

synoptic12

Thanks very much John. I've tried A to Z, and nil.

synoptic12

OldsPower.Com has to be the "worst" web site I've ever seen. Extremely slow servers, issues with logging in, going to forums (never reached any), and every time, "same scenario". I'll pass on this one.

Allan R

Synoptic,
2 suggestions for what it's worth.

1. There were literally hundreds of thousands of these cars built. There's got to be one in a local wrecker that has this escutcheon you're looking for.

2. It looks like a flat piece so very likely it's easy to fabricate from spare sheet metal. Just need to find some wood grain to match your pattern.

I know that's prolly not what you were hoping to hear. In the meantime you could also check on fleabay and search for 81-88 Cutlass that are being parted. Someone will prolly have that pretty cheap. What happened to the original escutcheon plate?

synoptic12

Allan,
The piece is bright chrome (plastic). Checked salvage, and Ebay Motors. Actually, they made around 125,000 vehicles. There is not a place I have not looked upon, Classic, OPG, Goodmark, hemmings, Year One, etc., etc.
GM lists the wrong part number: the part is discontinued. the funny thing, you can locate one button, and four button, but not "2 button".

The woodgrain has nothing to do with the escutcheon. It is seperate as it just snaps in. In regard to what happened to the original.

I sought some assistance in replacing the switch. Person ordered the switch (which was not the right switch). I told him that but he refused to listen. When he pushed the switch (wrong switch) in place, he snapped one end. It was most likely an "armrest" switch, not door panel switch. Aside from that, I would have decked him if he had not helped me in the past. He got nervous and shaky when I told him it was the wrong switch. He said he had spent enough time on it, (a complete joke), and walked away. I removed the complete door panel, leaving the switch 'right in his face'. He must have spent five minutes trying to concoct an excuse which he did.

This is someone I have known for a long time. A note, he wanted to charge me $35.00 for the switch. I told him I could obtain one for $20.00 online. He said it was from China and they wern't any good. When I arrived to allow him to set in the switch, I asked him where was the switch made that he purchased. he said China, but he would be able to change it because he had been using the same supplier for years. He said I would have a hard time exchanging mine online. that is really absurd.
Now, he'll pretend that he is a "big" man to his supplier, by saying "I got the wrong switch, broke a vintage switch, and had to reimburse the customer". An assumption on my part, but I know how people are. He simply refused to even look at the difference in the switches. You would have to be blind not to notice. Actually, one switch was at least an inch wider, which was the primary cause in snapping the escutcheon.
Like I said, he helped me greatly once in removing a broken bolt in the head. In this respect, I choose not to inflame the situation. If it were not for that prior assistance, I surely would have filed litigation.

Finally, I cleaned the same switch, re-installed. The switch was loose , or should I say the escutcheon was loose, due to one side clip being snapped. However, after re-installing door panel, the escutcheon is tight, as the switch. The pressure of the panel against the inner skin of the door most likely made this so.
The funny thing, I have been in the business for over 35 years, system electronics, radios, two-ways, alarms, system structure. I went to him for courtesy and to give him a few bucks. He constantly works as a mechanic. i will never allow anyone to assist in this work ever again.

You asked, and I said. Thanks Allan.

Allan R

Interesting Story. So for now your problem is fixed?

I don't know if this will help or not, but Fusicks carries the 2 button switch. They say it is for 79-81 so I don't know if there were any changes to the design or not. It's on page 85 of their newest catalogue. If it's the wrong one, disregard. http://www.fusick.com/catfile/Catalo...Layout%201.pdf Sounds pretty much like you solved the problem anyway.

Just an FYI? I don't mind hearing details like yours. It gives me a better understanding of what goes on out there. I also better clean up my understanding of the word escutcheon....

EDIT: when I was referring to the number of cars built in that style, I was referring to all years, not just the 86 models.

synoptic12

Thanks very much Allen. I checked Fusick on page 85, and it is what everybody else has. If you look at my picture, you can see that my escutcheon is flush with the panel, whereas the one Fusick has is like a picture frame. Actually, I have posted those pictures where all could see the difference. apparently, you missed that.
You know AC Delco, Dorman, and I think BMD, OR BWD someting all have a one button switch with my escutcheon, but not two. They even have four button. This, I cannot understand. One and four, but not two.
Anyways, to a certain extent the issue is resolved. I personally do not care for any imperfections. This is why I was, and still searching for the escutcheon, also referred to as a bezel, or trim.

I really do not discuss details, such as stated, for I feel that who would really be interested. You say you like to know what's going on out there. Are you not out there with us. Irrespective of all this, is that your Olds? That is a nice ride you have. It must be somewhat easier to obtain parts, should you need any.
Thank you very much Allen for your assistance, and for lending an ear. I don't know if it was you whom referred me to PowerOlds.Com or someone else, but that site is terrible. I really do not know if it is active. Servers are extremely slow. in addition to that, when you log in, the log in boxes are off the screen, until you hit the first letter of your user name. Once logged in, the buffering (propellar) is non-stop. To slam the server as to a request, is useless. I've never seen anything like it. Most sites operate like Fusick, actually every car site, and any other site. There is definitely something wrong with their servers for sure.
Again Allen, your help was most appreciated.

Allan R

Ok, Now I see the difference. If I see anything like what you're describing and showing in the first photo, I'll send you a PM. The Olds in the pic is not mine, but you're more than welcome to check out the pics of my car on my profile page. I have 3 albums: Olds 98, front end rebuild, and 72 Cutlass S

As for PowerOlds.com?? Nope - I didn't refer you there. Just a Heads Up, sometimes this site can be problematic and slow too. Again, something to do with the servers no doubt.

Checked out your site album. Very nice car. Reminds me a lot of my 82.

synoptic12

Now Allan, if you wish to sell that 72' Cutlass, I'm interested. Do you live in Canada? Very nice car, like the color. Profile is great, all Olds. Anyways, it would be most appreciated if you see that escutcheon anywhere. PM anytime. If there is anything I can do for you, don't hesitate to contact me. thanks again Allan.

Lady72nRob71

Best way to get another plate is from a member here who is parting a car.
Post in the "part wanted" section and include a photo of your old part - the broke one.
I assume this is the flat panel under the woodgrain for the front side windows. (The four door models had a double switch with the chrome bezel lower down on the armrest).

As for switches, Rockauto has 'em.
Front windows (door mount, no bezel): ACDELCO Part # 11P10 {#19251615} or DORMAN Part # 49214
Rear (armrest mount, chrome bezel): ACDELCO Part # 11P17 {#19251622} or DORMAN Part # 49242
They cost between 14 to 20 clams. You local parts store might have the Dorman ones in the HELP section.

synoptic12

Wow, are you ever sharp and correct. I have posted in the want ad with picture. I am well aware of the Dorman and AC/Delco switches. Thank you very much Rob.

synoptic12

I found the "bezel" from Michael Allen Obsolete Auto Parts, out of Pennsylvania. I ordered it. Don't know if I'll receive it. The site took my order. Thank you very much for your help. You have been the most versed person, and knowledgable regarding this issue. It is clear to see that your backgound is professional. Thank you.

synoptic12

Hopefully found the part Allan, from Michael Allen Obsolete Auto Parts, out of Pennsylvania. Ordered the part, which they show in stock as (NOS). JUST HOPE THEY HAVE IT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE ALLAN. Printed those upper case letters inadvertently. Too lazy to change them.

Lady72nRob71

Glad I could help and glad you found your part. Hopefully it will get you fixed up.
Post a pic of your '86 - I have one as well!

synoptic12

Thank you. Naturally, no muscle here.

These photos are also in my photo and albums. Could not upload to gallery. Just kept buffering, would not upload.

Lady72nRob71

Very nice looking car! If that factory paint? Engine is clean, too. How many miles?

synoptic12

Orignal Owner: Factory paint (lacquer). Now, they use base coat, clear coat.
Vin Y, 5.0 Liter, 140 H.P, 2.14 rear axle ratio, 7.5" Ring Gear, Stock Hydraulic Roller Lifters and Valves, OHV, 200 Transmission, (3-Speed), 147,00 miles. Compression is still good
Then again, you must know all this: you have one.
Actually, I've posted prior threads at G Body Forums. Com, and Classic Olds. It was the lead vehicle in the motorcade at Lansing, Michigan for the 100th Anniversary Oldsmobile Celebration (The Closing of Oldsmobile). It was considered Oldsmobile's birthday, however, it was the nail in the coffin for Olds. My name appears on the front page of the Lansing Journal on August 23, 1997.
Irrespective of all this, I again thank you. I thought you may like the aforesaid information. If I can do anything for you in the future, please do not hesitate to contact me.
*- I still have the "original" window sticker.
P.S.- Whichever way you look at it, "They're all junk". In the end, what is anything worth?

Lady72nRob71

Very interesting! So how is the paint holding up? The paint used then was a more environmently friendly stuff that did not hold up well at all, at least for the colors. I have seen white and black that still looks nice though. My mom had an 86 in burgundy and it faded. The top paint on mine (light gold) is shot and has little sun exposure. It has the 200r4 OD tranny and 2.56 gears, different than yours.
Did you get the one hour amature video of the 100 year celebration? I have it and will need to look for your car next time!

synoptic12

The finish is still excellent. That's all I hear all the time, "The car looks brand new". However, we had a 1985 Cutlass Ciera in which the paint virtually disintegrated. Oldsmobile provide a monetary sum to us in the amount of $2000.00, in which we purchased a 1997 Cutlass Supreme SL 3.1 Liter. Only 10,125 were produced. Unfortunately, about three months ago, a woman raced through a stop sign, and the vehicle was 'totaled'. Practically sick over the crash. My mom was hospitalized for eight days. Well, we thank God that we remained.
At least the gears are somehat better than 2.14. Although, the 2.14 are great highway gears.
I heard about that amateur video, but I do not believe that I have it, nor have seen it. My nephew produced his own video of the event which I have; fireworks, Cheryl Crow, Dolly Parton, parade, etc. Really do not know if my car is in that amateur video. At the motorcade though, there were cameras from all over the world, stationed on rooftops covering the beginning of the motorcade. The reason why my name appeared in the Lansing Journal, as being intervied by a Lansing press writer, was the fact of the 'first' person showing up for the run. i was to be in the parade, but crossed signals became an issue, in reference to submitting photos prior to the event. I mis-construe the message from organizers, which left me out.
Anyways, thank you for your interest.

synoptic12

A look back at the "past"

P.S.- * Not making the "cut" was not true. The above stated reasons were the true cause.

Lady72nRob71

That is a different video then - I would like to see it though.\
The one I am refering to is this one:
http://newmand.oldsgmail.com/video.htm
Lots of videos pieced to gether from lots of members and mixed to music. Lots of the songs are good driving songs! Highly recommended.

synoptic12

I may have seen that, really unsure. Hey, let me know if my car is in there. If that link allows me to watch it, I will.

P.S- Just checked that link. They wish $25.00 for that video. Now, I remember. I did not order it due to the price. If you have it, could you tell me if my car is in there. If so, I may, may purchase. Really not interested at this point in time. However, the video my nephew made is on VHS I believe. I would have to transfer that to my computer to upload, which I just havn't done yet.

synoptic12

Hey, I forgot to ask a question;

Do you have the 5A or 7A cylinder heads in that cutlass. Also, on your emmission control, is that positive or negative back pressure? Looking for some technical information. Thanks !

Lady72nRob71

I will look for your car the next time I get that vid out. It was costly, but the songs and shots were worth it. I had watched it over and over. I had remembered wasting over 25 on bad dates before...

I have the dreaded 7A swirlport heads and EGR is positive.

synoptic12

Well, could very well be considered "dreaded" in two aspects. First, they are very efficient. Secondly, they may last forever. Naturally, the 307 doesn't make much horsepower.
The motor is sort of a 'hybrid'. Every way which that was technically conceived to build the motor led to more complications.
1. If you replace the manifold, it was somewhat difficult to match a 3/4 inch cam.
2. Then the transmission came into play: speedo would have to be reset.
3. The rear axle ratio would have to be changed
4. The driveline would have to be changed.
5. The calculations of installing a 350 trainee were a factor.
6. Emission control was the greatest factor: No manifold comes without emission control. The air tubes would have to remain.
7. Called Joe Mondello Racing. He told me to go with bigger displacement.
8. I finally gave up.

The motor is a good motor, but they have choked it. I opened the air tube from the cat one day, just to see if I would gain some H.P. I surely did, about 20 H.P., but the sound was like a "whoosh". Just put the tube back.
You cannot even add dual exhausts due to the backpressure. One is positive and one is negative. Could present some issues.
I was even dreaming about headers which was a complete joke.
l just left the motor alone. Too many complications and calculations. I call it a "submarine". I have never seen more emission control hoses in my life. Don't forget, I believe energy conservation, and lowering the speed limit to 55 created this 'wonderful' motor. It had taken me about five years to learn all this "junk". That is just what I consider emission control. "junk".
I see you have the manual also. How long did it take you to know the motor?

P.S.- I'm not certain, but I believe that I have (Negative) backpressure on my EGR. At this point, I really don't care. I'm not building this motor. I've talked to a few motor builders. Just wished to build the 307. Forget about it.

Lady72nRob71

The 307 engine mechanicals was reliable, yes (not counting the leaks)... Just choked to heck in the name of increasing emission reduction. The emission junk is what caused most of the problems with this motor.
MPG was not really the reason for the extra junk, as MPG actually went down some to gain better emissions.
To put things more in perspective, the 350 in Lady gets about 19 MPG on the highway, with 350 tranny and 2.73 gears. My 86 307 gets about 23 on the highway with 200r4 overdrive (and lockup TC) and 2.56 gears. Not much gain for less displacement, 60 less HP, computer controls, and steep highway gearing!

You should have a positive BP EGR, unless it was replaced with a wrong type. Manual states that all G and B body 307's in 86 were positive. Look at figure C7-4 in the picture above to see what king of valve you have.
I bought the manual a few years after buying the car. Given there is so much complex stuff, I am still learning. Unfortunately my 86 does not get out much, so I do not work on it much. She needs a TCC solenoid replaced and TPS adjusted, but thats about it. She is neglected, I know...

Lastly, Mondello is right. The only way to get much more HP is to replace the 307 with a 68-72 350 or 403. From what I have seen and heard from others who did it, they bolt right up and the 86 emission crap will even bolt up and will play nicely with the computer.

synoptic12

Hey, thought you may be interested in some snakes in the grass, namely Michael Allen, whom sent me the LH Power Door Bezel, with two broken wings (clips) on the backside. Actually, this is part of the bezel. This is where the switch snaps in. Completely irritated. People get worse every day.
I tell him I'd like a full refund, and am disputing the charge with American Express. He took offense to the "dispute" issue, and said he did not want to do business with me, further adding to go elsewhere. This type of individual is nothing more thank a crook, looking to find and snare the unsuspecting. This was to be a (NOS) part. It looked like it came from the junkyard. How he acquired the box is unknown. Pics enclosed.

Allan R

Sorry to hear about that bezel. If the part was claimed as NOS (new) then AE will likely give you buyer protection and debit back your account. Send the part back to Snakeface COD.

synoptic12

Thanks Allan. I can't believe the things people do. Did you see the pictures? Not one side broken, "two". I called this guy. He would not return my call, just e-mailed me. He had no face to speak with me.

Allan R

I looked at the photos. There's no way on God's earth that is NOS. I can even see the break and color change in the pics. Some people are like that though.

Someone had that in a car and didn't know how to remove the window switch. That's the only way I've seen stuff like that break. Course it's all plastic too which makes it somewhat more susceptible to DIY mechanics who only work with hammers.

synoptic12

Yes, well you can see good. What I'd like to know is where he got the box? Anyways, he is listed under AutoParts Obsolete, out of Allentown, PA., yet the part came from Robert Zubal in Phoenix, Arizona. I thought they were really legitimate. Totally disgusted of what is occurring.

Lady72nRob71

Chargeback. Hope this was a credit card!

I was duped like that on ebay for a caddy center cap. Picture was perfect but the one I got looks like it was flung 100' down the road.

synoptic12

Here are a couple of pics "advertising". The images were removed after purchasing, as well as the part number (20114087). Knowing how people are, I took screen pictures for evidence. Good thing I did.

P.S.- Actually, the part number was 20106284. It took me one week, non-stop to discover the part number, even calling GM. GM did not know. I acquired the part number from Obsolete AutoParts. I thought they were really good by having the part number and showing the merchandise. What a trick that was.

synoptic12

Why do people do this? I would never send out junk like that.

Lady72nRob71

Anything to get quick cash from junk - those are ones who care only about themselves.
I found that sellers with 12,000 feedback ratings are not afraid to get an ocassional negative as it will not make their % change much. My item was that time I guess.
Later on I got 3 almost perfect caps from the local yarde de junque for 10 bucks.

Sorry to hear your hassle...

synoptic12

Thanks very much. You are absolutely right about merchants having a gold seal, 100% positive feedback. Whom would question that. They are very sly people. You know, Yahweh knows each and every one. They will all give account in the Day of Judgment.

Allan R

Keeping the web page images is a great way to prove your case. It should also be date stamped by the computer, and should also have the site information you got it from on the printout.

Why do some people do this? Bait and switch? Or just they don't care..I guess it comes down to personal ethics. I can only speak for myself, but regardless if I sold 10 parts or 10,000 parts; I would make every effort to make sure my reputation stayed at 100%. A large seller can easily take a 22.00 hit to satisfy an unhappy customer. The very LEAST that should be happening here is a sincere apology from him, with a promise to follow up with your refund.

Word of mouth advertising goes a long way, and a lot faster than some people think. Not attending to business, or not answering the phone or email is NOT an excuse.

Years ago I also bought some 'junk' from a vendor on epay who claimed the product was next to NOS. It arrived beat to heck. I gave him a chance to make good. No replies to emails, so I did 2 things: filed a dispute to get my money back (and picture evidence before/after like you), and left him negative feedback. He tried to leave neg for me, but epay actually blocked him from doing that because I had proven my case so well.