Hi all, can someone please help me with this. I really need to get this car back on the road. Recently i have been needing to jump my car to get it started. I finally got tired of this and went and had alternator and battery tested. The alternator failed and the battery needed to be replaced as well. I had the starter replaced back in april and a wire broke and grounded out, the car sounded like it wanted to have a heart attack!!! Anyways after replacing the altenator the car seemed to sound different when starting. I went three days without needing a jump and finally I replaced the battery after needing a jump. The battery didnt last an hour before i needed a jump again. At start up the car sounds like its has something drawing on the battery, I'm getting a 2 volt drop that has been measured. Now the car wont even start period. The starter wont even click, and i cant even jump start it either. When using jumper cables I'm not even able to get a spark at my battery once connected to battery. Can someone point me in the right direction so i can possibly do this repair myself???

 

You need to troubleshoot this problem from scratch.

Check every part of the charging and starting systems, one at a time: Alternator, battery, wires, connections, starter.
You also need to check to see if you've got some circuit causing a parasitic drain that is killing your battery.

Did you have a documented good voltage after replacing the alternator?

Did that voltage change over time as you began to have problems again?

What was / is your battery voltage?

- Eric

 

X2 to this as well also check your grounds they can cause all kinds if issues

 

Sounds to me that your new battery is very dead or bad. When you try jumping a car with an extremely low or bad battery, it siphons the load and makes it difficult to start the car.

Next make sure your charging system is charging. Just because the alternator checks good does not mean the battery is getting charged.

Then as Eric stated above see if your drawing power from the battery when the key is off.

 

Thanks, I will try to troubleshoot this issue. Umm, yeah the altenator was charging back to the battery. The battery itself was a remanufactured and was at 38% charge. The battery was measuring 14 volts plus. I guess i can start there, take battery back up to store and have it looked at. After replacing the baterry i drove around for a few and started the car several tomes and all seemed ok. Then i went out on the highway and when i shut it off, i needed a jump??? I dont understand that???

 

Something I have learned is batteries are very well designed you get what you pay for I don't go cheap regarding them . But you don't need to break the bank either

 

"Remanufactured"?
I've never heard of a rebuilt battery. Do you just mean "Used"?
And what do you mean by "38% charge"? Was that when you got it, or after you charged it, or when it died?
And how did you test it?


That's where it's supposed to be while the engine is running.


If it's no good, then, yeah. bring it back.
"Remanufactured"? Would they even warranty that?


Did you need a jump or not?
With all those question marks, you seem uncertain.


Sounds like your charging system wasn't.
Did you check the voltage again after it was jumped?
If your charging system is charging, then it was a total battery failure, which I would never suggest, but with a "remanufactured" battery (did I mention that I'd never heard of such a thing?), who knows?

- Eric

 

Bear in mind once again that the STARTING system has little to do with the CHARGING system. Get the starting sytem functional first. I heard that the starter was changed, some electrical fault was made, bad noises happened, and now it makes more bad noises. Or, none at all.

This tells me the STARTING system needs attention.
Begin with a battery that is known to be good.
Observe the battery voltage during cranking- voltmeter or the old trick of watching the headlights to see if they stay fairly bright or dim to nothing when starter is activated. Battery voltage must be close to nominal during cranking or there's a battery/ connections problem. Best place to start checking battery voltage is at the battery post. Of course, you have to have the starter motor operable to go very far down this path...

Did the starter get its support/ GROUND strap put back on during the swap? Lack of that strap can and will prevent the starter from working. Or, sometimes, not. It is supposed to be there, either way, one less thing to go wrong.

Needing a jump to start tends to indicate a dead battery, but it could be a coincidental malfunction of the starter motor / solenoid that comes and goes, and appears to be related to the jump start festivities.

 

i've had re-manufactured batteries before. there is was a place in milwaukee that did them, remy battery. they steamed the top cover off, replaced the guts, and re-glued the top on. was half the price of a new battery and they lasted fine. i mean, it's a battery, there aint a lot of technology in a lead-acid battery.


bill

 

just because a part is new, does not mean it is good. i would get them all tested just to be safe. then check all wires and connections as you put them back on.

 

I agree ,but it depends on quality of the parts that are installed. just because its new or rebuilt doesn't mean that they didn't take short cuts to have a larger profit

There is a batterie called prostart that causes all kind of electrical gremlins ,kept testing good tested complete system and circuits would ship it next day come back finally threw in a batt costumer couldn't have been happier

 

These cars have fusible links down at the starter that are tied into the charging system and if one of them is corroded, burned out or broken the alternator will not charge the battery.

What is the voltage at the battery positive post with the engine running? Alternator should be putting out roughly 14 volts even at idle. If below 13 either alternator is not charging or there's an open wire in the charging circuit.

If it's low check alternator output voltage at the output post- the one with the heavy gauge red wire on it. If it's around 14v there, that confirms an open wire in the charging circuit. If not, alternator is not doing the job.

***

I don't think I've seen a remanufactured battery in over 20 years. Used to be a couple of gas stations here that sold them. My dad would buy them for the tractors and get a couple years out of them, more if he'd put a trickle charger on them. My mama was terrified of a battery charger- an uncle had a really old one short out and burn once, so after that a charger was not a useful tool, it was something that caught fire. And nothing would convince her otherwise. I bought a nice Schumacher for my use and she went ballistic "WHY DID YOU BRING THAT THING HERE? IT'S GOING TO BURN DOWN THE SHED!"

35 years later it still works flawlessly and the shed is still standing.

 

I like this person - truer words were never spoken.

- Eric

 

I had a voltage reading of 14.7 when car was running, 16.3v when car was off at the battery. I never had any issues until i changed out the altenator and as soon as i did the change of altenators the issue was very apparent. It seems like whenever i got on and off the highway, letting everything get nice and warm I was guaranteed to need a jump. If i just drove around in the city i could go almost the whole day without needing a jump. The cooler i kept everything helped me to start the car. Even before i changed the altenator i never had anything draining the battery, even when i was needing a jump. I'll start from scratch, take the altenator and battery back to store to have checked. I will even take starter up there as well to eliminate any major failure.

 

Yes back in April the starter failed and needed to be replaced. It was a high torque output starter? Well*the mechanic didnt address the corroded wires and a few months later one broke and grounded out on the car frame causing some issues with my panel warning indicators. I do believe i had to pull a fuse to get rid of the beeping sound.

 

I think your alt is over charging you shouldn't have 16.3 at battery ever . it could course premature failer to the battery

14.7 charging is just a tad high ,should be around 14 is it a internal regulated alt ?

 

This is nonsensical.

Since the alternator is the thing that makes the current that charges the battery, the battery can never show a higher voltage than the alternator puts out (so long as the alternator is turning fast enough to charge the battery).

You need to recheck these readings with a different meter.

Your alternator may be putting out over 16 volts, in which case the battery would be overcharged, and ultimately boil, and light bulbs would begin to burn out, but the battery cannot put out 16V if the alternator only goes to 14.7.



Which exact wire broke and was grounded?

What exact issues were caused?



Maybe you need to actually check these components yourself, rather than trusting some place that may or may not actually be doing the job properly.

- Eric

 

If he has a 16 volt battery in there it makes sense. Is this a 12 volt battery?

 

And THAT makes more sense than most of what's already been said here.

- Eric

 

Amen, St. Eric. rebuilt battery ( haven't seen one in over 35 years) at 38% and has 14 + volts? I am starting to have trouble reading the print in this thread. It almost seems as if I am looking through wool. I will try reading it all again, but I may not make it through. I don't think I can be much help on this one. But I may try as it progresses.

 

I really appreciate all the input I am getting on this issue. Here's what I've learned in the last week. I took battery back to store and they said it was good. I removed the starter and had someone turn the key over while I manually made the solenoid connection with a screwdriver, nothing happened except a spark and a click. I then measured the starter voltage with key in but not turned over and had 16 + volts. I then had someone turn the key over and my voltage dropped to under 2 volts. I have one wire connected to the small terminal and i have 3 wires to the positive solenoid post, 2 of the wires are crimped and make as one wire, but both have a plastic round pirce around the wire before being crimped together . Which one of these is suppose to be the fusable link? Is the starter junk?

 

Which MAY mean that it is, but almost definitely means it is not (magically) putting out 16 volts.


Huh?

Are you saying that with the starter on the ground under the car, you bridged the dangling purple wire to the S terminal with a screwdriver, while somehow grounding the starter?
Or do you mean something else?

To do a very basic test of the starter and the solenoid, you clamp a jumper cable to the nose, clamp another one to the big hot terminal, and then touch a wire between the big hot terminal and the S terminal - it should pretty much jump straight up off the ground.


Okay. Stop here.
HOW did you measure it?
WHERE did you attach the leads?
WHAT make and model is the meter? Please take a picture of it, preferably with this 16V reading showing.
If your battery tested good, then it CAN'T be putting out 16V, and if it's not putting out 16V, then you are measuring something incorrectly.


WHICH voltage - which exact places were the leads connected?


Ummmmm... I think I need a picture to know exactly what you mean here.


I have absolutely no idea.

- Eric

 

I am measuring the starter voltage right at the solenoid negative and positive post and its reading 16 volts until key , is turned over then it drops out to 2 volts. I was told that ifsomeone turned the key over and i made contact between the two solenoid post the starter would fire off if good? It didnt. I get the same.16 volt reading.from the altenator when key is turned.on to accessory position. I am measuring that fromthe positive post on the altenator to the bracket that holds the altenator, is that not.a.good.ground? I will take.pictures and.post.later tomorrow. The wire that broke.from.thestarter was one.of.the ignition wires that has that plastic round.piece.on it before being crimpedto.another ignition wire then secured to the positive post on the.starter with the.battery.positive cable.

 

Since it is impossible for a 12V battery to be putting out 16V (though it may have a brief surface charge that high if overcharged by a malfunctioning alternator), something is wrong here.

We need to see a photo of your connections and of your voltmeter itself in order to figure out what's wrong.
A malfunctioning voltmeter is my first guess.

- Eric

 

Your description on the number of wires at your starter is perplexing. X2 on the pictures. A fully charged 12v - 6 cell battery should be around 12.65v, it is hard to believe that it reached 16v unless your voltage regulator is not working as Eric stated above.

 

I dont know what to say, maybe a bad dmm? I got two 16 plus readings with the car ignition in accessory position, not running at the altenator and starter solenoid terminals. I dont know how much a difference a high torque output starter compares to normal starter? I dont even know what engine I have in this car? Why would a 350 need such a powerful starter? I'll try to find the engine number so I can check. Anyways after reading all the replies again for the third or fourth time, and from my little inspection/voltage readings I had it towed in today. The shop confirmed it was the starter and thank God thats all it is and is covered under warranty. I thank all for their input, views, and knowledge that has been passed along to me. Now maybe after reading a few other threads I will be able to figure out why my blower motor isnt working and to get my.generator light to go off and to get the others lights to work when they need too...

 

Glad is was a easy fix I thought it was the starter ,but you want to be able to pin point your voltage drop so you don't replace good parts .

I think it's time to invest in a good volt meter 16v on a 12 v system is never a good thing , but then again if your gen light is on maybe there is more to this ready over charging maybe ?