A normal guy who's an electrical engineer, I'd wager.

Nice hack. If I had a rotary-switch car, I'd buy one.

Good luck!

- Eric

 

lol, I wish! I'm actually in the Army, and I'm not even a combat engineer. I think I'm just a little OCD. My desk at home looked like a scene from "A beautiful mind" with prints of wiring diagrams and scratch pads of drawings all over the place. It also helps that I don't have much of a social life lol.
Anyway - Thanks Eric

 

I stumbled across this thread today for the first time. Good job!

 

Optimally, I want to initialize delay mode and begin with a one and only un-park, run with delay times with-out re-parking, and then only when turned off would the wipers park under hood line. Is that what is being displayed here? Could it be true?

 

The biggest problem people run into with trying to retrofit delay (pulse) wipers is that we're all accustomed to electric circuits ... while this isn't one at all ... it's a logic circuit. All the important stuff we expect to be buried in the switch housing is in fact tucked up inside the wiper gearbox housing. As for retrofitting, you need to match the wiper linkage to the 'park' movement. I had to swap my motor with another and the park movement isn't quite enough to get the wipers all the way down.

 

Arm travel distance that is too short to fully park blades is an issue in my mind. This can already be an issue if components are worn. I am looking at my 45 year old 1968 Cutlass. In the past, I replaced what I could and drilled/re-pinned where parts were not available. I even slightly straightened the arm to increase the throw of the wiper sweep. Works well.

I envision a single combination turn/momentary non-latching push **** that is added to dash next to the original switch. Turn on wipers conventionally and if delay desired, push added turn **** to turn on delay, adjust time-off by turning to desired position. Detentes would be a plus.
The wipers run 1 cycle and power is removed for the time adjusted at **** and then resumes for another cycle. Park is not initiated. (To visualize: Run wipers, disconnect power to wiper motor via key-switch when blades are at lower position, then turn key back on, simple)
A reed type switch is used to indicate when 1 cycle has occurred. The reed type switch is mounted in the transmission next to the gear run by the motor. A simple bracket allows switch location to be adjustable. Drill a hole and press in a magnet (strategically located) to activate the reed switch. As the gear makes one revolution/wiper cycle, reed-switch activates power disconnect timer.
I thought this thru quite a few years ago but it never went any further. I still think it is very do-able; efficient and dependable at little cost.
Sooo, what do you think?

Patrick
PS, I think the application of the new motor and switch idea is very good Eric, I don't want you anyone to think I am thumbing my nose. I know that it takes a special talent to invent something out of nothing, so accept my congratulations on figuring it out. I just want something less costly and without the potential for added problems like park stroke length, etc.

 

since this thread is here...

back when i was 18, i built a delay wiper controller for my '69 cutlass s. it's a simple circuit using a 555 timer i.c; a couple of resistors, a capacitor, a relay, and a combination variable resistor and on/off switch. i just connected it to the low speed lead, ground, and keyed power(wiper circuit). it was all built on a 1" by 2" proto board. i designed the delay from 3 to 60 seconds roughly. it worked great for about 20 years until i parted with the car. i'm sure i still have it somewhere. all it cost me was design/build/installation time, as i was employed at a large electronics warehouse(free lease with an option to buy).


bill

 

e129 - Not sure if the question (post #44) is directed at me - but no, the late model wiper motor doesn't distinguish between parking and recessing and it starts from the same spot whether turning on for the first time or starting back after delay. The modern park/recess motors utilize a mechanical system on the snout of the wiper motor that allows it to have two 'rest' positions. It uses a combination of an oblong plate, spring and locking arm that allows it to stop (while on) and recess in different locations on the windshield.
As a side note, I'm getting out of the wiper switch making hobby. My job requirements have stepped up, and the orders for switches stepped down

 

And you can get that all here in a simple cheap kit:
http://www.bgmicro.com/KITMK111.aspx
These are ready to use as wiper delays, but best for non-depressed park systems. Set the delay pot in a remote place and put it in a small project box. I would use a different style of pot with the same resistance.
I bought some of these which i modified to run a traffic signal and ped-xing sign in the garage (I was bored then...) They work well.

 

I never played with the depressed park type, what controls the park function?

 

Yes, that can be made to work with some ingenuity. 24V/3A, I'd probably use it to drive a 20-35A relay. The timer portion is relatively easy to build, capacitance/resistance values are calculated using a 555 in monostable mode. However $15 for a workable delay timer and a cheap magnetic reed switch including shipping, it is rather appealing. I might get a unit to have around.
The challenge is synchronizing the delay function when the wipers are at a repeating desired position, just before they return for another swipe, and sourcing a desirable switch/trim pot combo. I would probably mount it below the dash under the existing wiper switch. The LED indicator can have some wire leads from the PC board to enable it to be in view. I think I might've talked me-self into getting something put together. We'll see. Delay wipers are sure handy, since every other stinking vehicle I have driven in the past 35 years have delay!

After some thought in front of Olds wiper function OEM schematic, it's obvious why it's not readily available; I.e., if this, then that and then this won't happen, but if you that, then this won't happen, etc. I'll have to take some time and think it thru, hope my stubbornness pays off cause I'm no genius!

 

Got a plan, locating parts and doing some online ordering. I see it working as planned.
1. magnetic prox switch will time the trigger signal.
2. One shot timed relay NO will receive trigger signal and respond with closing contacts for dash adjusted duration, the delay. This will be trigger for coil of common 35A NC side (normally closed) relay, like for fog-lights.

The trigger Timer Relay is hard to find, not so common. It needs to count-down, actuate contacts from NO to Closed, then return to original state Open, even while receiving trigger signal. I think I found something that will work, $30, most expensive part. If anyone knows of something, let me know if you will. I'm looking at SSAC's Timing Relay; KRD9 Series Item# KRD9131A. Not electro-mechanical but I think CMOS,etc.

Turns out the SSAC made KRD9131A has been discontinued. Looking for alternative. I'd welcome any ideas...

3. NC relay (fog-light) contacts will be put into 12VDC main power between fuse block and wiper motor. When coil is energized by Timer NO Relay, it will respond by opening contacts and disconnecting power for adjusted time. Time-out returns it to original state.
With Delay on/off connected to prox switch supply, the wipers will function as normal when delay is off, and when on only interrupt function to insert delay component without park in between. Will have to turn delay off and shut off wipers per OEM to get them to park. Exactly what I want.
I think it will work, let me know of any resources for the Timer Relay you can think of. The relay I found is rated at 10A max. That will be fine to drive power relay. If anyone finds a relay that functions as described but is NC, it will need to handle the full Amps. 35A should last longer than min of say 20A.
Is anyone else as interested in this as I am? I certainly don't need to go on like an idiot if there is no interest.

 

Well, received parts, about $65 plus shipping. Two relays, combination switch/potentiometer, LED/resistor, and prox switch. Works like a dream. All original, just added above parts. I mounted then behind Brake Booster on firewall. I chose to mount the LED and switch thru dash next to original wiper switch, but they could easily be put in a small enclosure (as cheesy as you want) and mounted under dash where drilled holes would not be seen if you like. I excepted the .387 and .125 holes in dash. I doubt I would ever remove the delay, but the small holes could be repaired/hidden in that event.

Works like this: Original wiper switch on, no changes to function. Switch delay on, LED lights and wipers stop where I adjusted them to, at bottom of stroke, no parking. Times out with pot adjustment, .2-12 seconds. (Can get .2-20 seconds with a different pot value) At time out, blades sweep 1 cycle and again stops at bottom, no park. Switch off delay, original function resumes.
If I shut off original wiper switch leaving delay on, blades stop at bottom of stroke, times out, then proceeds to park where they stay parked. LED tells me to shut delay off, if I want.

I could not be more pleased with the results....!!

 

Okay, you've got my interest.

Gonna post some pics?

- Eric

 

Just a **** and LED on dash and a couple of relays on firewall.

 

I mean pics of the way that the proximity switch, etc are attached to the wiper mechanism.

- Eric

 

Well, I tried to get something decent, but the debris screen detracts from the image quality and I'm not interested in removing it again. The one I attached should give you an idea of how clean the install is though. I did draw up some bracket dims and schematic for circuit, but am still contemplating what to do with them. Nice is nice, but foolish is foolish. I may be encouraged to put some type of kit together for Ebay or whatever, but to me it appears to be more time, trouble, and $ than I'm willing to give.

 

Ah ha. Very logical system. I shall keep this in mind in case I ever finish every single other project I have lying around and need something else to do.

Just out of curiosity, why would you go to the trouble of half-describing your idea for a project, then posting that you made it work, if you had no intention of telling the rest of us how you did it?

No matter - I'm fairly busy for a few months, but sometime in the depths of winter, I expect I'll figure this out and post a full plan with schematics and part numbers for the rest of the group, even if I don;t ever get around to actually doing the project myself.

- Eric

 

Well, it is not terribly difficult to figure out. I did it, couple of hours to refine. The tough part was specifying parts and locating sources, hmm, maybe 20 hrs+ before I was satisfied. Then you'll find the Lorlin push-push switch/pot is located in UK, read shipping $ and back-order time. I searched for several weeks and found this thread as the most promising, but found nothing I wanted to do. The lack of Search results suggests a belief that "it can't be done". I disagree if that is the general consensus, thus my posting anything at all. I refer you back to last lines in your 1st quote:Is anyone else as interested in this as I am? I certainly don't need to go on like an idiot if there is no interest. I got no response. I have been very interested in putting in delay in my `68 with recessed and was surprised to find nothing that functioned as OEM. I got the sense that I was the only one. I seriously thought no one else really had any interest and I'm not looking to be a dope or one man show. But really, you are right. I should just post info. I want to let people know it is easily done if anyone is interested and has the commitment to follow it through. Look over attached.
-Patrick
Well, this sight has 97.7KB file size limit, I'm not able to attach the 3 files as is at 105,107, and 125KB. I created files in AutoCad and TinyCad, then made .doc files thru print screen. Any ideas?

 

If I recall correctly, the .jpg format has a bigger size limit for files. I have been watching this thread since it got brought back to life. I for one do appreciate the head scratching and effort you put into figuring this out, and look forward to your post with the picture files.

 

Believe me, people are interested.

As you note, there has not been a straightforward way to do this, and I think most people who actually drive these cars would like to have the option of a wiper delay. I know that during the many years that I drove them as my only transportation, I sure did.
Interestingly, I did have an effective aftermarket delay that I used in my '72 Skylark (bought it new in the package with instructions at a flea market for $5) - it worked great, then one day stopped working.
I left it in the car when I sold it about 20 years ago.

As for pictures, if you make them jpegs and limit them to about 800x600, they should post up just fine.

Thanks for doing the figuring on this.

- Eric

 

interested also !!! Got my dash coming out soon, so would be nice to fit
the system in now ,!!!

 

I'm also very interested for my '72 Cutlass project. I want to modernize a few things while I have the car apart. Demand wipers would be high on my list if it's really do-able!

 

Very interested as well....

 

This will take two posting to fit the attached files.
I am presenting here a plan I designed that has successfully modified my 1968 Olds Cutlass OEM round motor Recessed Wiper System to operate with adjustable delay. Some may recognize the obvious, but my costs were higher due to buying separate components from various suppliers, thus increasing my shipping costs dramatically. In addition, the buying of two different types of components to see which worked best also increased these costs, but I have compiled a list of electrical components I found from just one supplier. There are other suppliers but at about $65 plus shipping, Newark was the only one that could provide either the essential item(s) or at reasonable cost. Be warned that some soldering/fabrication/creativity/skills will need to be utilized. Maybe a friend can help you out if needed. I often take for granted my abilities but you should know that I ask the help of my Lord and Savior Jesus with everything I do (and think and feel for that matter!). I wish you success!

These plans will not alter anything mechanical so sweep length and parking stroke will all remain the same. In fact, all of your original components including the motor and switch are used as is. My concept simply interrupts the power feed to the motor at the appropriate moment without initiating the parking event and resumes power after the adjustable delay time is reached. The parking event is not altered and is initiated only when the OEM wiper switch is turned off as originally designed. It works exactly as I wanted, essentially just like modern delay systems do today.

It is logical that if your vehicle uses the same electrical logic to drive your wiper system, making these modifications will give you the same results as mine. Another words, compare the schematics of your system and determine if they are similar in operation as the 1968 Olds Cutlass. I am trying to attached the schematic taken from my Chassis Service Manual for my Year/Model of vehicle. GM used this type of electrical design in many cars of the same era, and I will not attempt to list which ones are candidates and which ones are not, but if you have recessed wipers utilizing switched-grounding, then this would likely work for you, too. Check first to make sure. If yours is not the Parking or Recessed system, then many readily available add-on delays can be wired in and should work for you. Therefore, I do not recommended this modification, although, theoretically it would function correctly.

Patrick

 

The second post containing the rest of the file attachments...
Well, tried to attach OEM electrical diagram for round motor 1968 Olds Cutlass, but I'm finding it difficult to post a file less than the max 95kb file size in .pdf, .doc, etc. Just have a look at Joe Padavanoe's post #21. His diagram is accurate for what I wanted to attach.
Ya, let me know of any errors, real or perceived and I'll try to clean up my original postings.
Thanks in advance for your critique feedback and corrections,
Patrick

 

WOW! VERY NICE work!

You MUST be an engineer. VERY meticulous documentation and illustration.

I am very impressed.

Moderators: Is there any sort of a promotion that CO could give this guy for going to all this trouble - maybe make his text glow or something?

If this gets out, it could easily become one of those internet sensations, like Jim Shea's power steering essays.

Thank you.

- Eric

 

Eric,
I thank you for your kind words and feel honored! You have made my day!
Patrick

 

Anyone put this on their car yet? Eric? Any better ideas? I still get the pleasant little smile from time to time when I'm using it. It works quite well, as if it was 1968 OEM. Had the car since I was 16 and at 51 now, I sure have wished over time one was availible. Guess that's why it seems so kool to me.
Anyhow, I just stumbled back and was curious if anyone had anything to add.
Patrick

 

Bought all the larts and it is on the to do list... just not gotten that far yet....

 

I saved all of the information, but I haven't done anything yet - other projecta and all that.

I think that this is a great solution, though, and, as with Dave, it's on the list.

Thanks for posting it.

- Eric