LoganMiller68

Hello fellow Olds enthusiasts,

So I have a weird...issue.

First off, I did get the car finished (enough) for the wedding! (Still needs some work, like a new grill and chrome bumpers for starters). But the wife was very pleased!

(Picture) Please ignore my silly face. Photographer told us to be serious, and I'm not a serious guy.

Anyways, just to drive the car required me jumping it at every destination we stopped at.

This is an issue I worked on for two days (with any free time I could get) before the event and I could not solve it.

From the beginning:

I finished assembling the car and it took a bit to get it started. It had been sitting for two years and I just installed a new fuel sender unit and new fuel lines, so priming the system took a bit of effort and more gas than I had in the tank initially.

At this time I had the fully charged old battery in the car. About half way through this process I suddenly got no response what-so-ever from turning the key to the ignition position. No click, nothing. We hooked an external jumper to it and continued on. With the external charger hooked up, the car kept attempting to turn over until we finally got it started.

I drover the car for about ten minutes, pulled into a gas station to fill the tank up the rest of the way, and once again, nothing. I turn the key and there isn't even an attempt from the starter to turn over. Hooked jumpers up to a pickup and the car fired right up.

I drive the car 30 minutes to my house and turn it off. Next morning, go to start it, once again absolutely nothing. Hooked a battery tender up to it and it shows the battery at full charge.

Take battery out, get it tested. Shows good, bought a new one anyway since it's been in the car for 4 years, and sitting for 2.

The new battery fires the car right up, drive it to the wedding rehearsal but have to detour at a restaurant to buy a gift card for someone. Go to start the car again afterwards, no response again.

Hook jumpers up, car fires right up again.

Next day (Zero Hour, 9 a.m.) I took the alternator off and had it tested. Tests good.

Decided I'll jump it throughout the wedding day.

Here's where I'm at:

-Battery is good.
-Alternator is good.
-Lights and other electronics work perfectly fine.
-Key turn makes no effect on starter, UNLESS I have an external source of power. Then the car fires right up.
-If I leave the battery to charge over night, it'll fire the car up.
-I've also tried driving it and disconnecting the battery when I'm done, still no change in effect.

My next step is taking the starter out, but before I do that, does anyone here have any suggestions, or ideas?

Thanks!

billmerbach

I would start at the ignition switch and see if you get power to it and out of it when you turn key

oldcutlass

Sounds like possible corroded cables, bad ground, poor or dirty connections at battery or starter, weak battery, weak starter, etc...

Octania

I would love to hear the resolution to this issue.
The only thing I can think of is that the battery cables are not making good contact with your battery and then attaching another battery or wiggling the connectors while securing the jumper cables temporarily rectifies the problem.

I would get a voltmeter and see that exactly the volts are when it is misbehaving
-at the battery POSTs
-at the battery terminals [not the posts]
-in the cable near the battery terminal if possible
-at the junction block on the fender
-at the purple wire going down to the starter [if handy connector to open up exists]
-in and out of the ignition switch

if all that doesn't find it, then pull the starter and go thru it.

Aha, where is the jumper battery GND applied? A bracket on the engine?
Maybe the CAR's ground path... from starter to engine [that vertical brace often missing], engine to cable, cable to battery post... is bad. Voltage drop readings should show that readily.

That would explain how the CAR's battery fails, yet the other battery works, every time.

Nice pic.
Congrats on getting married.
The photo looks like y'all should be totin' shotguns.

rjohnson442

No power from the alternator back to the battery kills em fast. Check alt output wire, make sure the alt is grounded and check the battery cables too. they can look good but be toast use an ohm meter on all wires.

70cutty

X2, sounds like a bad connection from alternator to the battery.
It could be the alternator too, my old alternator tested OK in 2 different stores and it turned out to be bad after all.

rocketraider

Congrats x2.

Shotguns? More like Thompsons...

Y'all actually look like a country or bluegrass band album cover picture!

Professur

Battery ground would be my first point of attack, as well as the battery clamps. Then the solenoid.

LoganMiller68

Thanks guys for all the replies and suggestions.

Tommy guns would be pretty killer!

I'll get to work on it tonight after work and update everyone on what I find.

RetroRanger

I had a tractor that behaved similar might start once but restarts usually resulted in a click or nothing. It would start right up w a jump, battery was good as were cables starter and alternator. The resolution was three fold 1.the positive cable clamp taper didnt fit the battery post well and would only make a line of contact w the post instead of full contact over the whole post. 2. The positive post was oxidised w a black film that was difficult to remove but once removed exposed shiny lead and promoted good contact. 3. the positive battery cable clamp bolt had corroded some and didnt allow the clamp bolt to fully tighten the clamp to the post, although the bolt felt tight, I replaced the bolt.

In hindsight #3 may have contributed to the majority of the issues but by rectifying all three the tractor has been troublefree (knocks on wood) for the last three years w all of the same components....

LoganMiller68

Hey guys good news, it's fixed!

Ended up being a bad ground connection on the main cable where it attaches to the post.

I completely pulled the ground cable and cleaned it thoroughly. It not only tightened better but has a much cleaner surface on the terminal. It now fires right up every time!

I'll blame this no-brainer fix on pre-wedding jitters

70cutty

Nice, good thing it was simple. congratulations on getting married.

LoganMiller68

Thank You!

oldcutlass

Glad it was simple.

LoganMiller68

Just to update everyone, yesterday the car stranded me by suddenly giving up on starting again.

I tried 4 different vehicles trying to jump it and it didn't even attempt to roll over, no click, nothing.

I then had family meet me at the parking lot I was at with my tools, jack, stands and a new starter.

I put the new starter in and got a click from it, but no turn of the starter gear.

Frustrated, I took a step back, thought about the issue and dropped the new starter back out and noticed this time how corroded the wiring was. I pulled the wiring up through the top of the engine bay and ground the ends out so it was all polished.

I re-attached everything and the car is starting perfectly fine now.

What a mess of an issue, but I'm glad I found it. Some new wiring will be ordered to replace the corroded old ones.

Thanks everyone for their help and suggestions

oldcutlass

Corrosion and dirty terminal connections are usually the problems with most electrical gremlins. I would check and clean the positive battery post, horn relay stud, ground strap at the rear of the engine, and alternator output terminal. On the battery clean the battery lugs as well as the cable ends. There is a brush or reamer you can buy.

Professur

You need to be really careful with the second one. It doesn't take much to suddenly have a clamp that's uselessly hollowed out. I usually use a strip of plumbers emery tape. More aggressive than the brush (and you don't get that damn brush in your palm when you misplace the cap) but more control that the reamer. It's just my opinion, but if you're at the point where the reamer is necessary .... you're already too far along and you need to be replacing the clamps instead.

oldcutlass

On the battery terminal ends, I will remove the bolt and trim the slot gap, to allow the clamp to tighten fully. What reamer does is return the proper angles and allow the cable end and battery lug surface to mate properly.

LoganMiller68

Another quick question guys. Can I buy just the cables coming off the starter and splice them in? Or am I better buying a whole new harness?

Thanks!

rocketraider

You can duplicate what's in there and make your own, just not sure you'll find the correct wire colors if that makes a difference. It makes things easier to troubleshoot down the road.

A new harness from a reputable company (if you can swing it, they're not cheap) will solve your 46-year-old wiring issues.

Make sure you have a good wiring diagram like is in the CSM.

LoganMiller68

Do you think something like this would be okay?

https://www.yearone.com/Product/1964...***-442/l11590

Octania

Yeah, like that

"$110
Part Number:L11590
Engine harness for 1968-1969 V8 4-bbl models with idle-stop with gauges.
The main engine harness travels from the bulkhead connector to the coil, starter and solenoid, heater blower motor, wiper motor, and several sending units. Does not include air conditioning or other optional engine accessories.
This is a factory-direct item."

Be aware that the larger cables especially can be corroded under the insulation and it's hard to see, so every 30-40 years it's a good idea to put new ones on.

As for the two smaller wires to the solenoid:

If you run HEI you do not use the yellow "R" wire.
The purple "S" wire [and the "R" if needed] can be fixed with a new terminal and a bit of fresh wire.

I suggest bare butts and glue lined heat shrink tubing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3M-MU10-BCX-...item338b1f9e5b

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-8-Black-Ad...c026a7&vxp=mtr

LoganMiller68

Thanks. I am running HEI

oldcutlass

If your harness is in good shape, I'd just repair the old one. I mean for under $20 for wire and terminals.

stellar

Thats funny

stellar