Hi,
My kickdown part of my throttle switch isn't working. The kickdown part just floats and the transmission won't do a full throttle down shift.
Can I disassemble the throttle switch while it's in the car to see why it isn't making contact and are they easily repaired?

Thanks
Dave

 

cfair has posted good tutorials on cleaning, repair and adjustment of these switches.

There's an adjustment procedure in the tuneup section of the CSM.

 

I wouldn't do it in the car, again. The switch is easy enough to remove and much easier to keep track of any loose parts on a clean bench or towel. Ask me how I know...

 

yep, I took it out and it would have been a disaster if I did it in place.
Mine has a problem where the shaft and the internal plate are not doing well. There's about a 20 degrees worth of play between the two. I did the JB Weld thing, but don't think that is going to work for long.
I need to get another unit to really fix it.
Dave

 

Best to work on these switches on the bench. They’re probably getting rare, so you might need to be creative if the points have worn down, which is a common problem. Usually the strings which force the points together can be stretched a bit to restore contact, but the points rub directly on each other for conductivity and eventually the brass wears down. Then you can 1) get a replacement switch (but it might be as bad or worse than yours) or restore the points with a few drops of solder and some careful filing.

Be aware that yours is typical of the Cutlass - the fixed type. I’m 95% sure big car switches will swap in directly and give you adjustability. I’ve seen it done in boneyards, but as a big car owner, I’ve never done it myself.

All that means you can look for pretty much any 65-67 olds 442/Cutlass/88/98/Starfire or Toronado and have a reasonable chance that a replacement switch will fit. If you can find ‘em, get 2 or three switches, usually at least one set of contacts (I believe the power - in lead) is in better shape than the others.

Olds obsolete had/has one available if you win the lottery and can explain the price to your significant other… $$$

Chris

 

I think I still have the one I removed from my car somewhere. Shoot me a PM and maybe we can work something out.

 

Thanks Chris and cjs,
I put in my JB Weld switch and the switch seem to be doing what it supposed to do, but with that being said, the transmission still won't kickdown. The switch has no effect on how the transmission works. With the car off, I can activate the solenoid, and I can hear it clicking. Driving the car, I get no downshift except for the vacuum modulator one. I can be at 45 mph with my foot to the floor and nada.
I checked the vacuum lines to the modulator, and all seems well there.
I'm joining a FB TH400 group to ask some questions on the operation, but from what I read, the solenoid may be clicking, but not doing its job. I'm also going to call Fatsco tomorrow and bother them and see what they think. I suspect I'll be needing to change out the solenoid.
From what I understand, the transmission has been freshly rebuilt and from looking at it, it looks brand new.
I've been in touch with a guy on FB who will sell me a switch. He's got a couple and will test and if it works well, we made a deal. Price was pretty good.
Thanks for both your help and nice tutorial Chris..
Dave

 

I have another question. when does the pitch switch come into play?
From looking at the two posts on the switch, one is active at idle, then inactive and active again at WOT. I think that's for the pitch switch.
The other switch is only active around WOT. I suspect that's for the kickdown.
After replacing the detent solenoid, the down shift solenoid works but it appears to be wired to the pitch part of the switch.
If I'm correct about the switch functions, I'm guessing that the switch wiring is swapped in the transmission.
Am I correct?

Thanks as always.
Dave

 

I think I posted a bench-function video here long ago. See if you can find it under my username. No promises, but I think it worked maybe as a GIF.

If I recall from that time correctly, your characterization of active,inactive,active again is correct following the throttle through it’s rotation from idle to part throttle to WOT. If you’re swapping something new/different in, give a thought to whether you’d like the adjustability available in the big car switches. The round one with the binder clip on top is adjustable, the square one is not.

Chris

 

Chris, I have one coming in a few days i hope., but with that being said, I'll also look out for one of the other adjustable ones.
You say they are adjustable, is there that much advantage to have that capability?

 

The function of the switch pitch converter was high stall at idle, low stall at any amount of throttle up to about 3/4, and high stall after that. Adjustability is ok for tuning the car, but, once you get it right, it typically stays. However, there are simple manual controls that basically get you a six speed out of it for dudes that race.

I believe the method is:

Stage that puppy in high.
Launch, approach red line, flip to low.
It will pull the engine down, then approach red line again.
Bang it into second and flip to high.
Do the same thing to get to third, then shift back to low again.

I don't think you can get all that done in 1/4 mile, but that would be the flying mile method, I think.

 

Koda, thanks. Is there any detriment to the transmission switching between pitch modes? I wish I would have known about this 45-50 years ago when I was street racing my original 67 442. So it sounds like the pitch was manually controlled with nothing at all done at the carb linkage since it's at WOT for the duration of the race. How many rpm difference would changing the pitch do?
Maybe I'll rig up a makeshift push button switch and play with it some.

 

It's a few hundred rpm difference.

Another thing people do is tie it to the brake light. On brakes, you're in high stall (which is desirable). Off brakes, you're in low stall, which is desirable for driving normally. Some will also wire a toggle to keep it in high, which you do when you want to race. Dicking around with going back and forth like I said above is maximizing and not normally done outside of a dragstrip car. But, yes, Olds intended it to be in high when stopped in drive, in low for normal driving, and high for flooring it applications, ie passing hard or streetracing.

 

That's great info. So when Olds got rid of the switch pitch for '68, what did they do? Did they just choose a torque converter that was a happy medium between the high stall and low stall selections on the switch pitch version?

 

Who do you know that drag races doing all this "switch flipping" ?

 

I'd have to dig up the forum posts where I read it. Probably on ROP or yellowbullet or the hamb.

 

There is no reason to do all that switch flipping. You run it in "high stall" through the gears and flip the switch when you are in the power range or near "power peak" in high gear. It only makes sense to get faster acceleration in the "high stall" mode.

I would put that "switch flipping" tid bit in your file with the "Solid Main Web 403's".

 

The adjustability allows you to change the switch points by a few degrees to get the function you want rather than doing backflips with rod lengths and screw in/out positioning.

The big “but” is that you adjust all set points if you move it back & forth. Meaning if you move it forward (fewer degrees of throttle opening) to get the kickdown switch to kick down sooner, the switch point of the torque converter will change too. (Earlier, in degrees of throttle opening). I usually wind up getting the kickdown right first and then see if I like the switch pitch behavior which is more subtle.

The hard part about fiddling with all this stuff is that whatever changes you make, you have to be sure that the carb still closes (idles) all the way closed when you take your foot off the gas. _And_ that the rod combination actually opens the carb all the way when you put your foot to the floor.

Chris