Issue with 68 Toronado AM-FM Stereophonic Radio
December 21st, 2013, 12:12 AM
#1
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Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
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Issue with 68 Toronado AM-FM Stereophonic Radio
I am having issues with my 68 Toronado’s partially working AM-FM factory radio. I figure I am probably going to need to have the unit serviced. I have been looking at these classic radio restoration places online, but have not came across one that is willing to just service a radio. They make it very clear that they only do complete radio restorations. Which I would be completely fine doing if my radio was in need of a complete resurrection from the dead…
The issue I have is that my radio will not tune any kind of FM frequency channels. I can get every possible crappy local AM frequency station loud and clear with or without the antenna extended. However, when I slide into FM mode I practically get absolutely nothing but static with the exception of an extremely faded signal every now and then. Just so you know the AM-FM Radio in my Toronado is the Stereophonic model 7303223 with the separate FM Multiplex Adapter. Here is what I have done as far as troubleshooting the issue. First thing I tried was adjusting the Antenna Trimming Screw as instructed in the Service Manual. Unfortunately, all that did was amplify Rush Limbaugh’s irritating voice to an entirely new extreme. I really did not think this was going to do much and already figured my problem had something to do with the FM Multiplex Adapter. So after stirring around on the internet a while I did come across the instructions on bench testing my unit without the necessary multiplex adapter. So basically I learned if you jump pin #3 with pin #6 on the 9 pin plug that goes into the adapter, then this would allow the radio to function and play mono sound without the adapter. Therefore, I went ahead and pulled the glove box apart so I could get access to everything I needed. I carefully unplugged the adapter and jumped the pins exactly as instructed only to just disappoint myself. After doing all that I virtually still had the same exact problem whether the pins were jumped or the adapter was connected properly...
So is there anything else I should try??? (I am seriously setting here scratching my receding hair line trying to think of anything else that I could try or do… )
Does anyone know a place a I can send the radio to basically to just be serviced??? Or do you think I should go ahead and just do one of these full blown radio restorations???
My biggest fear with doing one of these total restorations is that I will send it off, they will get it, open it, twist something, and then ship it back to me… I have also considered shipping the unit off to have it gutted and converted into a modern 4 Speaker AM-FM Stereo. It is pretty much about the same price. Although, something inside me is screaming do not do it and keep it stock. I know that it would most likely sound much better, but I really feel that keeping the radio true is my best option. In addition, this was the high roller stereo system of its day. I know a price tag of $240.00 sounds like nothing now, but in 1968 that was defiantly was one heck of a jaw-dropping amount just for a car radio...
The issue I have is that my radio will not tune any kind of FM frequency channels. I can get every possible crappy local AM frequency station loud and clear with or without the antenna extended. However, when I slide into FM mode I practically get absolutely nothing but static with the exception of an extremely faded signal every now and then. Just so you know the AM-FM Radio in my Toronado is the Stereophonic model 7303223 with the separate FM Multiplex Adapter. Here is what I have done as far as troubleshooting the issue. First thing I tried was adjusting the Antenna Trimming Screw as instructed in the Service Manual. Unfortunately, all that did was amplify Rush Limbaugh’s irritating voice to an entirely new extreme. I really did not think this was going to do much and already figured my problem had something to do with the FM Multiplex Adapter. So after stirring around on the internet a while I did come across the instructions on bench testing my unit without the necessary multiplex adapter. So basically I learned if you jump pin #3 with pin #6 on the 9 pin plug that goes into the adapter, then this would allow the radio to function and play mono sound without the adapter. Therefore, I went ahead and pulled the glove box apart so I could get access to everything I needed. I carefully unplugged the adapter and jumped the pins exactly as instructed only to just disappoint myself. After doing all that I virtually still had the same exact problem whether the pins were jumped or the adapter was connected properly...
So is there anything else I should try??? (I am seriously setting here scratching my receding hair line trying to think of anything else that I could try or do… )
Does anyone know a place a I can send the radio to basically to just be serviced??? Or do you think I should go ahead and just do one of these full blown radio restorations???
My biggest fear with doing one of these total restorations is that I will send it off, they will get it, open it, twist something, and then ship it back to me… I have also considered shipping the unit off to have it gutted and converted into a modern 4 Speaker AM-FM Stereo. It is pretty much about the same price. Although, something inside me is screaming do not do it and keep it stock. I know that it would most likely sound much better, but I really feel that keeping the radio true is my best option. In addition, this was the high roller stereo system of its day. I know a price tag of $240.00 sounds like nothing now, but in 1968 that was defiantly was one heck of a jaw-dropping amount just for a car radio...
December 21st, 2013, 06:21 AM
#3
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
It's true, it could be the antena lead, either inside or outside of the radio.
The antenna trimmer is only for AM, so that won't help you.
You've also eliminated the mutiplexer and the amplifier as sources of the problem, leaving pretty much the RF section of the FM tuner.
I really can't help you from there, though.
I'd try plugging in a cheap auto parts store antenna and grounding it to some flat, horizontal surface (as though you had drilled a hole in the fender and mounted it), to prove whether the problem is inside or outside of the radio - if it works with the antenna, then it's in your antenna, antenna wire, or connections.
If not, then it's probably an internal connection, or a bad capacitor or transistor.
You need an old-school radio guy, preferably with access to old Sam's guides to troubleshoot this.
- Eric
The antenna trimmer is only for AM, so that won't help you.
You've also eliminated the mutiplexer and the amplifier as sources of the problem, leaving pretty much the RF section of the FM tuner.
I really can't help you from there, though.
I'd try plugging in a cheap auto parts store antenna and grounding it to some flat, horizontal surface (as though you had drilled a hole in the fender and mounted it), to prove whether the problem is inside or outside of the radio - if it works with the antenna, then it's in your antenna, antenna wire, or connections.
If not, then it's probably an internal connection, or a bad capacitor or transistor.
You need an old-school radio guy, preferably with access to old Sam's guides to troubleshoot this.
- Eric
December 21st, 2013, 08:26 AM
#4
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
try this guy
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370955456749...84.m1438.l2649
"I am a retired Electrical Engineer who enjoys vintage radios.All required repairs have been made. This is a very good looking and playing radio. You will not be disappointed. Enjoy the tunes!"
Appears to be capable and affordable
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370955456749...84.m1438.l2649
"I am a retired Electrical Engineer who enjoys vintage radios.All required repairs have been made. This is a very good looking and playing radio. You will not be disappointed. Enjoy the tunes!"
Appears to be capable and affordable
December 21st, 2013, 01:10 PM
#5
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 69
If your radio is a factory FM Stero it has a separate unit located on the firewall behind the glove box which is connected to the radio by a multi-pin cable and is part of the FM stero system. This additional unit is factory tuned with the radio for FM Stero sound and they are not interchangeable with another radio setup. I had one in a '69 Toro that I had to have repaired in about 1978. After the repair it did sound great.
December 21st, 2013, 05:56 PM
#6
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 188
It's true, it could be the antena lead, either inside or outside of the radio.
The antenna trimmer is only for AM, so that won't help you.
You've also eliminated the mutiplexer and the amplifier as sources of the problem, leaving pretty much the RF section of the FM tuner.
I really can't help you from there, though.
I'd try plugging in a cheap auto parts store antenna and grounding it to some flat, horizontal surface (as though you had drilled a hole in the fender and mounted it), to prove whether the problem is inside or outside of the radio - if it works with the antenna, then it's in your antenna, antenna wire, or connections.
If not, then it's probably an internal connection, or a bad capacitor or transistor.
You need an old-school radio guy, preferably with access to old Sam's guides to troubleshoot this.
- Eric
The antenna trimmer is only for AM, so that won't help you.
You've also eliminated the mutiplexer and the amplifier as sources of the problem, leaving pretty much the RF section of the FM tuner.
I really can't help you from there, though.
I'd try plugging in a cheap auto parts store antenna and grounding it to some flat, horizontal surface (as though you had drilled a hole in the fender and mounted it), to prove whether the problem is inside or outside of the radio - if it works with the antenna, then it's in your antenna, antenna wire, or connections.
If not, then it's probably an internal connection, or a bad capacitor or transistor.
You need an old-school radio guy, preferably with access to old Sam's guides to troubleshoot this.
- Eric
I have tried calling the few local Electronic Repair places listed in the phone book. Most of them said they had no clue how to work on them and if they did, they probably did not have the right equipment to test it…
Last edited by 68RocketAction; December 21st, 2013 at 06:03 PM.
December 21st, 2013, 06:03 PM
#7
Senior Moment Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,921
I had an old radio I brought into a radio repair shop. They said they wouldn't know how to fix it, it was so old and secondly they wouldn't be able to get parts. It is a radio my Grandfather used to listen to points all over the world. I really wanted it to work but I was at the wrong place apparently. I think you just need to find the right man to do the job if the ground situation doesn't pan out. I would go that route rather than upgrading to a modern system. I have that in my 68 Cutlass and would rather have the original AM radio with no 6x9s in the back deck. Just my opinion. I don't listen to the radio when I drive that car anyway.
W-30 Convertible 4 Speed Interior
W-30 Convertible 4 Speed Interior
Last edited by z11375ss; December 21st, 2013 at 06:05 PM.
December 21st, 2013, 06:16 PM
#8
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Location: Too close to Toronto!!
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Although the radio started out as NEW, as it gets older, the components age...Who'd a thunk it...so, as the electrolytic capacitors age, the paste within the device dries up and eventually fails, and this calls for replacement parts. Probably a dozen or so capacitors. If you send it out for repair, make sure you send both the radio and the multiplexer, they are a matched set. Statue.
December 21st, 2013, 06:30 PM
#9
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 188
try this guy
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370955456749...84.m1438.l2649
"I am a retired Electrical Engineer who enjoys vintage radios.All required repairs have been made. This is a very good looking and playing radio. You will not be disappointed. Enjoy the tunes!"
Appears to be capable and affordable
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370955456749...84.m1438.l2649
"I am a retired Electrical Engineer who enjoys vintage radios.All required repairs have been made. This is a very good looking and playing radio. You will not be disappointed. Enjoy the tunes!"
Appears to be capable and affordable
If your radio is a factory FM Stero it has a separate unit located on the firewall behind the glove box which is connected to the radio by a multi-pin cable and is part of the FM stero system. This additional unit is factory tuned with the radio for FM Stero sound and they are not interchangeable with another radio setup. I had one in a '69 Toro that I had to have repaired in about 1978. After the repair it did sound great.
December 21st, 2013, 07:23 PM
#10
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 188
I had an old radio I brought into a radio repair shop. They said they wouldn't know how to fix it, it was so old and secondly they wouldn't be able to get parts. It is a radio my Grandfather used to listen to points all over the world. I really wanted it to work but I was at the wrong place apparently. I think you just need to find the right man to do the job if the ground situation doesn't pan out. I would go that route rather than upgrading to a modern system. I have that in my 68 Cutlass and would rather have the original AM radio with no 6x9s in the back deck. Just my opinion. I don't listen to the radio when I drive that car anyway.
W-30 Convertible 4 Speed Interior
W-30 Convertible 4 Speed Interior
That is a beautiful 68 442 btw… All of your cars are complete masterpieces. My 68 Toronado’s engine compartment is clean and all original, but I can only dream it will looks like yours at some point…
My dad has a house full of old antique radios that he has collected over the years. I figured he would know a good person to look at my radio. Unfortunately, he said that all the people he used in the past are all gone now. In addition, he said since there are so few AM stations now he does not even see any reason to have them repaired anymore… I hope that my issue is just a simple antenna issue. However if I cannot find anyone to just service the unit, then I am defiantly going to do one of these restorations. I just hope they do not replace a 15-cent circuit or transistor then just call it good…
Although the radio started out as NEW, as it gets older, the components age...Who'd a thunk it...so, as the electrolytic capacitors age, the paste within the device dries up and eventually fails, and this calls for replacement parts. Probably a dozen or so capacitors. If you send it out for repair, make sure you send both the radio and the multiplexer, they are a matched set. Statue.
I replaced the dash in my 68 a few months back. This required me to remove pretty much everything. When I pulled the radio out I was completely surprised. That thing is full of stuff and was like lifting a 50 lb weight. Actually, before that I did not even think the radio worked. Although when I had everything out, I figured I would go ahead and replace the dash speaker. Well once I got everything back together I started the car, was checking the lights, and then turned the radio ****… I tell you I just about fell over when the radio came on and actually played. Since then I have also replaced the rear speaker as well...
December 21st, 2013, 11:54 PM
#11
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,921
That W-30 convert 4 speed isn't mine. It's a friend of mine's. He had a writeup done on his 4, yes 4, W-30 convert 4 Speeds he owned at the time. It is in Muscle Car Enthusiast. July of 2008. What a collection! My thanks go out to you for the compliment. I am 51 years old and it has taken me that long to finally get what I want and do them the way I want them done. I don't care if they're fast. I just like the way these old machines work, drive, etc. It is like a time warp. Of course you could always get a Nissan Altima. Barf!
Last edited by z11375ss; December 21st, 2013 at 11:59 PM.
December 22nd, 2013, 05:27 AM
#12
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lehigh County Pennsylvania
Posts: 679
Turn the radio off in the vehicle. Set it to "FM". Then start the car.
After the car idles for a few minutes and the voltage is up, turn the radio "on" and listen for a "thump".
If you get a "thump", the amplifier is working correctly, this isolates the fm tuner circuitry.
Next step to to remove the "fm stereoplex" connector from the back of the radio and spray some type of electrical contact cleaner. DeOxit works best ( use it at work to clean 2 way radio connections). Plug the connection back in and make sure it is seated properly.
If there is still no sound, your radio needs to be serviced.
Most components (usually capacitors) in vintage radios dry up over time and fail if you do not have voltage running through them.
From here on in, your wallet limits your options.
After the car idles for a few minutes and the voltage is up, turn the radio "on" and listen for a "thump".
If you get a "thump", the amplifier is working correctly, this isolates the fm tuner circuitry.
Next step to to remove the "fm stereoplex" connector from the back of the radio and spray some type of electrical contact cleaner. DeOxit works best ( use it at work to clean 2 way radio connections). Plug the connection back in and make sure it is seated properly.
If there is still no sound, your radio needs to be serviced.
Most components (usually capacitors) in vintage radios dry up over time and fail if you do not have voltage running through them.
From here on in, your wallet limits your options.
Last edited by radioburningchrome; December 22nd, 2013 at 09:21 AM.
December 22nd, 2013, 09:34 AM
#13
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lehigh County Pennsylvania
Posts: 679
FM signals are dependent on antenna length to receive transmissions. About 30 inches is the general "rule" for a telescoping (aka 1/4 wave) antenna.
If you want to get really in depth, you can calculate the optimal length for the signal you want to receive:
98 mhz, in the middle of the FM band is 28.65"
88 mhz = 31.9"
108 mhz = 26"
To simplify things if you do not want to measure antenna length, just increase or reduce physical length of the antenna until the "hiss" gets lower (stronger signal) at your desired frequency.
If you want to get really in depth, you can calculate the optimal length for the signal you want to receive:
98 mhz, in the middle of the FM band is 28.65"
88 mhz = 31.9"
108 mhz = 26"
To simplify things if you do not want to measure antenna length, just increase or reduce physical length of the antenna until the "hiss" gets lower (stronger signal) at your desired frequency.
Last edited by radioburningchrome; December 22nd, 2013 at 09:39 AM. Reason: spelling
December 23rd, 2013, 10:08 PM
#14
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 188
When I got home this evening, I went out and messed with the radio in the Toronado. It was like 24 degrees and already dark, so obviously not what I would consider ideal conditions. I did try connecting the cheap antenna that I got from the part store and just grounded it to one of the cars screws. Surprisingly I was able to hear many local FM channels, which were flooded with static. Definitely allot more than what I am able to get with the cars antenna. However, I could not get any kind of AM channels or general static to come in while in AM mode. Which I thought was somewhat odd since I can get AM channels completely clear using the cars antenna. I wasn’t able to move the antenna around very much since my ground wire was only about a foot long. So I guess it sounds like my problem could very well be with the antenna vs. the radio itself...
Since I have a couple days off here for the Christmas holiday I think I will try looking at it tomorrow during the daytime...
Since I have a couple days off here for the Christmas holiday I think I will try looking at it tomorrow during the daytime...
December 24th, 2013, 07:03 AM
#16
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Poteau, Ok
Posts: 41,071
AM radio signals don't come in very well inside the garage with an antenna inside of a steel bodied car. Kind of like driving through a tunnel. FM signals will usually work fine. The static you hear may be a dirty volume control.
December 24th, 2013, 07:09 AM
#17
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
"When I try clicking that link it just takes me to a sold Oldsmobile AM Radio. I am able to get the AM portion of my AM-FM Stereo Radio to work now…"
=========================
Sorry, I figured that from that page you would be able to figure out how to contact the seller/ repairman.
Do you really need step by step guidance for how to contact an ePay seller? Just say so...
Seems like the obvious solution- hand it over to someone who loves to do that and knows how.
=========================
Sorry, I figured that from that page you would be able to figure out how to contact the seller/ repairman.
Do you really need step by step guidance for how to contact an ePay seller? Just say so...
Seems like the obvious solution- hand it over to someone who loves to do that and knows how.
December 24th, 2013, 07:42 PM
#18
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 188
Well I went out and looked at the Toronado’s antenna today. I also brought a multimeter with me so I could test for resistance. I first tested the old antenna coaxial cable. I didn’t detect any kind of short, I got zero resistance from the inner conductor to inner conductor, and ground sleeve to ground sleeve. I then reconnected the antenna cable to the antenna itself. I got zero resistance from the inner conductor to the far extended portion of the actual antenna arm, and ground sleeve to bottom base of the antenna, which is bolted to the wheel well of the car. I then made sure that the radio case was making a good ground to the steel of the car. I stuck one probe to the case of the radio itself and then stuck the other end to about 8 different steel parts of the car and got zero resistance. According to the 1968 Toronado Assembly Manual there is no ground wires connected directly to either the radio or the manual antenna. Even though there is no physical antenna ground wire I would imagine it gets its ground being bolted solid to the steel wheel well of the vehicle. The only thing I could see being a problem for me is the top portion of the antenna mount on the fender is a little loose. It appears the only way to adjust the top nut is with some kind of a two prong socket or tool. Does anyone know what size adapter or tool I need to get???
Last edited by 68RocketAction; December 24th, 2013 at 10:38 PM.
December 24th, 2013, 08:03 PM
#19
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Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
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Unfortunately, I do not have any kind of AM/FM car radio lying around. I guess I could pull the radio out of my 83 Toronado, set it in the floorboard, feed the antenna through the glove box, and connect everything else with jumpers. Honestly I am not even sure if the antenna plug was the same in 1983 that it was in 1968.
December 27th, 2013, 09:04 PM
#20
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Thanks guys for all your help....
December 28th, 2013, 09:18 PM
#21
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OMG!!! All my FM Reception issues gone with several squirts of RF control cleaner and lubricant. I feel like a complete idiot for going through all the other loops and bounds… I previously tried spraying QD electronic cleaner on the controls, which did absolutely nothing. However I went by Radio Shack today and got the right stuff…
WoW!!! Not only do I now have FM Channels, I am absolutely blown away by the stereo sound that comes out of this radio… I decided to take a nice relaxing drive down the old winding riving road this evening listing to a local 70’s rock station and I have to say it was absolutely amazing!!!
WoW!!! Not only do I now have FM Channels, I am absolutely blown away by the stereo sound that comes out of this radio… I decided to take a nice relaxing drive down the old winding riving road this evening listing to a local 70’s rock station and I have to say it was absolutely amazing!!!
December 29th, 2013, 09:02 AM
#24
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[QUOTE=68RocketAction;633578]OMG!!! All my FM Reception issues gone with several squirts of RF control cleaner and lubricant. QUOTE]
Oxidation is your biggest enemy, bad grounds are a very close second when it comes to radios.
Enjoy the stereo sounds
Oxidation is your biggest enemy, bad grounds are a very close second when it comes to radios.
Enjoy the stereo sounds
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