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I have a 1969 Cutlass convertible with floor shifter and tilt steering column. I took the car out for a spin today (still mid-70's here in Central TX. Everything started and ran as normal. Something went wonky with the key as I turned the car off, as it would not smoothly go into the "Off" position.
I jiggled it around and it eventually went to the off position, but then the radio turned on, which it is not supposed to do in Off. I tried to start the car again, but the key will just turn without engaging at the "ACC" and "On" positions. The key will turn 180+ degrees, making a clicking noise at the lock cylinder and will not trigger the starter.
Me thinks a replacement ignition key lock cylinder is in order. However, I wanted to check with the group to see if there may be another cause for the issue before going through the hassle of acquiring a new cylinder, getting it properly keyed, removing and replacing it.
I have seen the various How-to threads on doing the replacement, just wanted confirmation as to whether the replacement of the cylinder will be my solution.
I would look at the actual ignition switch first. The electrical switch that's mounted maybe a foot and a half down on the column. If the switch screws are loose, you can have a lot of play at the cylinder. Could be a bad switch or broken sector gear. It does not sound like a cylinder problem to me.
I wanted to circle back with the resolution on this issue.
After tearing down the steering column, I found the sector gear skipped a notch or two from the rack, and one of the gear teeth was partially broken off (hard to see on the pic). I replaced the sector gear with one from classicindustries.com. The outfit Joe referenced also had them. The rack was intact and not replaced. Hopefully I will not live to regret that.
I also removed the ignition switch (not the ley lock cylinder, but the unit bolted to the top of the steering column under the dash). I found the sliding action on the switch was difficult, so replaced that as well under the assumption that a 50+ year old sticking part at least contributed to the demise of the sector gear. Be aware that both parts are different for tilt and non-tilt applications.
After putting everything together and adjusting the position of the ignition switch, all seems to be well. This was a rather unpleasant and time consuming exercise for this amateur mechanic, but was happy to get the problem fixed.
If you have the misfortune of opening up the steering column, I recommend reviewing the docs at the forum noted below. These papers borrow heavily from the CSM, but put it in a much more understandable format. Turns out GM steering columns were largely the same among makes for a number of years. http://jimshea.corvettefaq.com/?cat=4
Hey there having same issues on my 71 Cutlass took it out for a spin today in this lovely TX weather, And after I parked at the car wash it would not start. My key turns to ACC and on position but nothing no clicking either, but does not back to the lock position but key does come out. Battery is good and all wiring looks good as well bypased the starter with a old trick and the key in the on position and started right up..Were do I start plz help.
Sounds like your symptoms are similar to mine. Not sure if your car is a column shift or floor shift, or manual or automatic transmission. Mine is a floor shift with tilt column. If your car has a different configuration there may be some differences in approach and part numbers.
The basic mechanism is that you turn the key, which rotates the Sector gear (roundish plastic gear). The sector gear connects to the metal rack (looks like an old bottle opener). The rack connects to a metal rod that runs along the steering column and connects to the ignition switch that is bolted to the top of the steering column under the dashboard. The rod has a 90 degree "hook" at the end of it that inserts into a hole on the ignition switch. When you turn the key, the movement of the rod parallel to the steering column slides the ignition switch between pre-defined positions with the ACC/OFF-LOCK/OFF-UNLOCK/ON-RUN/START operations The Start position is spring fed and returns to the ON-RUN position after the key is released.
The sector gear and rack are known to break, and the original ignition switches are getting to be 50 years old and may need to be swapped out.
I am no mechanic, but found these suggestions in my research:
1) Grab the section of the steering column closest to the dash, and try turning it counterclockwise before turning the key. Mine had a physical block inside that prevented the rod from physically moving its full cycle. I understand this is also somehow connected to the function of the Neutral Safety Switch ("NSS") in some cars and may prevent the car from starting. I am not sure what the fix for this issue is, but may be helpful to get it up and running.
2) Check to see if the the rod fully moves when you turn the key. This is done by either visually by dropping the steering column or by touch reaching under the dash on top of the steering column. The total movement between the Start and ACC positions ("S" and "A" markings on the picture) is about 1 1/8". If you do not get this level of movement, the rod may be binding within the column, the switch is mucked up, or the sector and rack are either misaligned or broken. You can remove the ignition switch from the rod by removing two 5/16" bolts. If the rod moves the full 1 1/8" length from ACC to Start without the switch, but not with it, then the switch is probably bad.
3) Take apart the steering column until you can visually check the condition of the rack and sector gear. You may need to realign the gears or replace the rack and/or sector gear. Note that the big cog in the sector should go into the big slot on the rack.
4) There is also a remote possibility that the actual key lock cylinder is bad and needs replacement.
Note that the sector gears and ignition switch parts are different depending on whether you have a tilt or non-tilt (standard) steering column. Also, note that the sector gears have a different number of gears depending on the application.
Good luck! Ignition Switch. The rod goes into the hole in the black slider section.
Was it always a floor shift? Is the backdrive linkage from the trans to the steering column in place and adjusted properly?
Yes sir it has always been floor a floor ****..not sure on the cable but I have nor had any issues with anything like this and Ive had the car for some time
Yes sir it has always been floor a floor ****..not sure on the cable but I have nor had any issues with anything like this and Ive had the car for some time
Not the cable. The backdrive linkage rod that runs from the trans to the steering column. This is what locks the shifter with the key. If it isn't adjusted properly in PARK, the key won't turn to the LOCK position.
Not the cable. The backdrive linkage rod that runs from the trans to the steering column. This is what locks the shifter with the key. If it isn't adjusted properly in PARK, the key won't turn to the LOCK position.
Oh got ya..but will this just go out? or unadjust as I have never had issues with this. thanks
Oh got ya..but will this just go out? or unadjust as I have never had issues with this. thanks
The linkage has plastic bushings that wear out. Also, it was frequently removed for header installation. The collar on the steering column can stay in the same position for a long time, then vibrate just enough out of position to mess up the key lock function. Failing that, it's also possible that the rack and pinion gear in the column that the lock cylinder operates has worn out or broken.
The linkage has plastic bushings that wear out. Also, it was frequently removed for header installation. The collar on the steering column can stay in the same position for a long time, then vibrate just enough out of position to mess up the key lock function. Failing that, it's also possible that the rack and pinion gear in the column that the lock cylinder operates has worn out or broken.
Geez..may just start it and let a mechanic deal with it.
Geez..may just start it and let a mechanic deal with it.
Few mechanics will understand that technology. Look, grab the collar on the steering column and twist is all the way counter clockwise. If the key works more smoothly that way, you've found your problem.
Few mechanics will understand that technology. Look, grab the collar on the steering column and twist is all the way counter clockwise. If the key works more smoothly that way, you've found your problem.
December 29th, 2020, 04:24 PM
what do I need to purchase to fix it?
