Jannebill

Hoping for some help. I am a female with not that much knowledge on HEI distributors and just cant do this on my own. I have reached out for help and no one wants to help me. Its a 350 stock rocket motor.

I just dropped a motor that I got for free in my 72 cutlass. The motor was complete with an HEI distributor. The distributor I had before was a coil. So i have been reading a lot online trying to figure out how to connect the HEI for power, I assume. I found the old coil wire, but the wire has another wire attached to it and part of this other wire is exposed?? I am stuck at this point. If that is the right wire to connect to the battery terminal on the distributor then what type of connector would I use to plug it in. (When I plug it in I was told to go from underneath the distributor. And, what is that other wire.

Anther problem I am having is I went to the fuse box and saw the slot for the Ignition with a wire hooked in to it, do I assume that this is the coil wire. What is the ignition slot on the fuse box for? Do I have to get a connector that splits and run a wire from the fuse box to the distributor?

I am not familiar with a lot of the car terminology that everyone uses, if there is any possibility that you can be detailed in your responses to help me understand what your talking about, sorry but it is gonna be me doing this job and I want to be able to understand everything I am doing.

I really appreciate all of you taking your time to help me get this done, I have had one hell of an experience trying to get this car running.

Thank you very much

MDchanic

Me too, sister, but it seems to be long in coming...


Sure you can. You just need a little information.


To heck with them, then.


That's my kind of motor.
What's it out of?


You've been reading in the wrong places - this question has been answered a hundred times on this board.


That's the right wire.
It's two lengths of resistance wire.
You know about the resistance wire from your extensive reading, right?


That is the right wire to connect to the coil of a points setup, but it is not the right wire to connect to the HEI.
The coil gets about 9 volts through the resistance wire, but the HEI needs a full 12 volts, from a normal wire.

You need to run a wire (minimum of 12 gauge) from a solid ignition hot to the HEI.
You can remove the resistance wire and its terminal from the firewall pass-through plug behind the fuse box and replace it with a copper wire, but I would guess that that would be WAY too much trouble for you, for no real benefit. It would also prevent you from using the resistance wire to go back to points in the future.

I would recommend soldering a 12 gauge wire to the heavy pink wire that comes out of the ignition switch (findable under the dash) and passing it through a suitable hole in the firewall to the HEI. This is nice and direct, and, so long as you protect it from sharp edges where it passes through the firewall, essentially bulletproof.

To plug it into the HEI, you need a ¼" female spade connector. The original-type connector has a plastic surround that has a little key so you can only plug it into the right place, and it's always nice if you can get one from a junk car, but it's completely unnecessary. A regular ¼" female spade connector is fine.

You connect it to the terminal on the HEI labeled BATT or BAT (I don't remember).
It's easier to see it if you take off the distributor cap and turn it upside down to look at the terminals.


That terminal is for accessories that are on when the ignition is on.
There is also and ACC terminal for accessories that are on when the accessories are on, and a BAT terminal for accessories that need power even when the ignition switch is off.


Well, as long as you use a left-handed metric Crescent wrench to align the Johnson rod with the encabulator, you'll be just fine.

- Eric

Erinyes

The project may or may not be easy, depending on what you have to work with. The simplest approach is to use the old coil wire - making sure that it has a full 12 volts during operation, not the nine or so that a points-type distributor would use - and run it to the ignition terminal on the HEI unit. There are five terminals on the cap of the HEI - three of them in a row, which is connected to the internals of the HEI unit by a three-wire connector that runs to the base of the distributor. Then there are two other terminals, one of which is for the Tach and the other for the ignition. They should be marked on the cap, TACH and BAT (I think).

I've used just a female connect/disconnect wire to attach the ignition wire to an HEI. Ugly, but it worked fine for years.

Do you have a voltmeter? You really should use one to make sure you are using the correct wires.

If the old coil wire runs through an external ballast resistor, you're in luck. Simply bypass the resistor so that the full 12 volts goes to the HEI at all times.

I'm not sure, from your description, but it sounds like the second wire attached is probably the cranking-ignition wire. This is so that when you are cranking the engine over, a full 12 volts goes to the coil. When the engine has started and the ignition switch is released to the Run position, then that wire goes dead and the other coil wire, with 9 volts, remains hot.

If this is the case, and you can find the resistor and bypass it, leave both wires running to the HEI. 12 volts when cranking, 12 volts while running.

You shouldn't need to use the fuse box, unless you have to run a whole new wire to the HEI, which sounds as if it would be tricky for you to do. The slot marked Ignition simply means it has 12 volts while the engine is on, I think.

Hope this helps. I'm sure others will chime in soon.

droldsmorland

Welcome, we can help. Your original points distributor used a wire with built in resistance which knocked the running voltage down when the engine was running to increase the life of the points. Full battery voltage was supplied to the distributor during cranking to get it a little extra fire then when the starter solenoid kicked out the battery source switched to the lower voltage. An HEI requires full battery/alternator power all the time.
What you need to do is hook the HEI up to a "Keyed" power source in the fuse box. In other words when the key is turned off the voltage gets shut off with the key. Use a high quality 12 gauge wire with good terminals crimped on to both ends or better yet soldered on. Insert the power wire into the terminal on the cap with a female spade that says Bat. The other terminal says tac that's for a tachometer. Use a male spade on the hot side of one of the fuses or an open spot that's keyed. There is special connectors made for the fuse box side. A good parts store(not a big box house of china) should have them. Or a stereo shop or AMP or Beldon (google it).
Its been 100 years since I have performed this mod but I want to think there is a neg terminal on the back three terminals. I have two out in the garage under covers and Im too lazy to go look. If I remember that's a ground too and can be hooked up to a good clean ground for the distributor. There is 5 terminals on the cap bat, tac, c-, neg, and b+. I think you can use the middle marked neg for this purpose. If Im wrong you will know. I believe the C- and B+ were for emission control systems.

Also be sure you have solid grounds to the engine. The neg battery cable to engine block and one from the head to the fire wall. Good clean grounds throughout the car will keep the electrical system happy. Also doesnt hurt to carry a spare HEI module in our road tool kit.

Dam you two are quick...went from zero replys to several in minutes!

Ya dauh I just woke up, that's what I get for answering a post at midnight on a Sunday! The 3 terminals are for the internal distributor controls which come out the bottom of the dist so you only need to hook up the "Bat" wire and the tach of you have one. I like the HEI. Set it and forget it. I get many, many reliable years from them. Just make sure you purchase premium parts when ever doing a tune-up. With an HEI you will need to adjust the centrifugal advance. This can be accomplished several ways. The easiest way is to purchase a new unit and have that vendor set it up for your engine. If they cant do it several vendors can do it or we can walk you through it. Do a search on the subject as its been discussed in depth several times here. Said dist vendor will ask you about your engine when you call and talk to them so they can set it up correctly. Dont get a junk yard unit. By the time your done rebuilding and setting up that one and trying to tune it you could have a new one ready to go out of the box. Of course you can use the points distributor set up to. Just make sure the shaft doesn't have any side to side movement in the bushings, up and down is ok. Clean inspect and fix any bad wires etc...

Jannebill

Lmaooooo. Thank u so much Eric. U have managed to make me realize I can get this done while making me laugh at the same time. Thanks a lot

Jannebill

Thank you thank u!!!!!!

Jannebill

Thank u so much. I have Been looking for these answers since Friday and just wasn't finding a clear enough answer on the net! This has really helped me! Thanks again

oldcutlass

Or... If this is another Olds engine, you could just take your old distributor and coil and slap it on your new engine, and everything will work the way it used to.

Jannebill

I'm afraid to do this because my old engine had major issues and I am unable to determine if the old distributor was the problem, isn't HEI better anyways?

oldcutlass

An HEI is a good distrubutor, buy so was the original one that came with your old engine. I'm assuming it still had points?

What were the symptoms of the problems with your old engine? Seems pretty drastic to change engines because of a distributor problem.

MDchanic

Not in any way you'll ever notice.

Sure, it's got a hotter spark, but unless you don't look at your spark plugs for ten years or so, that won;t make any difference to you.

The HEI distributor also has less mechanical spark advance potential, so if you have an engine that needs very little advance for starting and a lot more for running, it will force you to make an unholy compromise.

- Eric

Erinyes

It's lower maintenance, for sure. Problem is, when it goes bad, it usually goes all at once with no warning, while points will often give you signs before dying.

I use electronic ignition whenever I can, just because I don't like to do fiddly maintenance jobs unless the weather is very nice, which it rarely is.

Jannebill

It all started when I changed the water pump. Went downhill from there. The car was running like crap and I finally was able to find out that the engine had list all compression in one cyl and a little in the one right next to it. I just felt that the motor was tired and needed to be replaced. I guess I am Nervous to reuse anything off the old motor

oldcutlass

I would use the old distrbutor as it's what your used to and it would be the most expediant menas of getting your engine running quickly. I assure you, it was not responsible in any way towards the demise of your old engine. Also it will be easier to tune as you can use the spec's out of the book. With the HEI it's a little more complicated to get it lined out initially.

MDchanic

I agree, the original distributor and coil might be easier for you to use than running a new wire and figuring out new timing specs.

The question, though, is what kind of engine did you install?
That will help us to be able to give you the best advice.

- Eric

oldcutlass

It's a stock 350 Olds, Eric. Her old distributor should be a snap, she will need to use her old spark plug wires and original tuneup specs.

Al Sanchez

If you decide to go with your original distributor in the future you can add the Pertronix ignition and eliminate your points,that's what I did to mine and I'm very happy with it and very simple to install also if you are using your original air cleaner I hear it don't fit with the HEI you need to modify it or add a spacer on top of your carburetor

MDchanic

Yes, but what year / compression / mileage?

Has the timing set been changed? Does it need to be?

Original carb?

Original cam?

Maybe dumb questions, but there's "original" and there's "original."

- Eric

oldcutlass

This is what she said.

Tuneup specs did not change much from year to year with points.

MDchanic

I know, but I'd still like to know more - sometimes things change as more information is unearthed.

- Eric

Jannebill

Hi Eric. So it's a complete stick motor from a 68 cutlass. Ran for about three months in their car. No cam, it did not come with a carb. U took my carb, a quad off the old motor and had it rebuilt. I'm kind of lost, what kind of clearance issues will u have? I don't understand how the air cleaner has anything to do with the distributor.

MDchanic

NOW we're talking.

A '68 motor originally came with points ignition, so the HEI is NOT original to it, and you wil probably have an easier time tuning it with the points distributor.

The reason for the air cleaner problem is that the HEI distributor has a huge distributor cap, because the coil is in the cap. Because of this, it will hit the air cleaner.
The factory dealt with this a couple of ways during the years, but unless you can get an air cleaner from a 1974-up car, you will either have to space your air cleaner upward or dent in the back in order to use the HEI.

Do you know whether the motor came with a 4-barrel or a 2--barrel originally?

- Eric

droldsmorland

Just as an FYI,
I have an HEI installed in an otherwise stock 68, 442 with its factory air cleaner with out interference issues. Yes some air cleaners do interfere 68-69 do not. I got lucky?

MDchanic

Hmmmm...

Looks like we need one of the encyclopedic knowledge guys to list out which air cleaners clear the HEI and which do not.

Interesting.

- Eric

Jannebill

Eric,
Help! I am so lost. lol. I still don't understand why the air cleaner would not clear the hood? I do have a 442 Ram Air hood being shipped to my home but won't put that on for about another month. I do see that the distributor cap is a little bigger. Unfortunately I am not sure what type of carb originally came with that motor. So I really would like to stick with the HEI, one reason is I am bringing the car home today rather than keeping it at this shop where I am working and the distributor is already in the car, Is it going to be more of a problem for me to take the HEI out and put the old one in? It's a long story, but I kind of have a problem with the guy helping me out on my car and to stay there another minute to pull the old distributor off the other engine is gonna suck, I mean I guess if doesnt take to long I could do it. You all seem to be pro points so maybe its worth it.

MDchanic

If there's a problem at the shop just get it out of there as soon as possible.

All other considerations are secondary.

We can give you more advice once its home.

Do whatever you've got to do to get it out the fastest.

- Eric

Jannebill

You guys are awesome. I am getting the car towed today and will have it home tonight and cannot wait! I will let you know! Thanks again!

oldcutlass

x2 - If the HEI is in there and all the spark plug wires are installed, then a jumper wire from the battery to the cap "bat terminal" is all you need to get it to run. Give it a quick time to around 14 degrees BTDC and you are on your way home. Please note, you need to remove the jumper to turn engine off.

droldsmorland

The fact that she is installing an OAI set up changes the game a little. From what I gather (Im a 66-69 person) the 70 and up OAI air cleaner bases are a problem with the HEI cap interference. Some say no some say yes??? Most get around it by installing either a small cap billet dist or a points conversion in the stock ignition set up. Did a search and Joe and others commented on this. Do a search.
Jannebill if your trying to use an OAI (outside air induction)(olds speak for "RAM AIR") air cleaner with a standard hood that could be your trouble. Or some one put a taller aftermarket intake on the engine. Or a larger air cleaner asm? Or all the above? Pictures are worth 10K of words when trying to troubleshoot online.
Lets take a breather (no pun) and give you time to haul it home and post some clear resolution pictures of the problem area then we'll regroup and help you through it. Anyone live around her that could physically take a look?

Octania

Janebill said she was getting a HOOD, not an entire OAI setup with air cleaner.

Jane, the air cleaner interference referred to was the breather hitting on the larger HEI dist'r cap, not on the hood.

We have a user saying HEI fits OK with some stock air cleaners. See if yours fits before going too far down that road.

Aslo, it sounds like you are getting your car back, but not the other engine? Will you be able to get parts off the old engine or retain the old engine at your place?

Let's see some photos...

Either way you came to the right place for help. Just be patient and precise in describing what you want to accomplish. Remember, people a lot less educated than you fix cars EVERY DAY. You *can* do it.

JPMDaddy

Not to hijack thread, but curious new owner of 71 cutlass... it has an HEI in it, not original

In looking at new distributors at JEGS, I noticed that the Olds 350's use a unit that seems to be specific to Olds vs SBC350...

Can anyone tell me the difference?

Octania

Seriously?

CW vs CCW rotation
3-4" of length
drive gear size and shape
method of securing to the engine
method of driving the oil pump
thrust force against the distributor [stooopid] vs against the block [clever]

That's a good start.
Totally different exterior with identical working parts otherwise.

Look at a few pix on say epay- actual parts for sale, not "file photos" and you will see the differences.

oldcutlass

I think what Octania is trying to say is no, they are not interchangable.

oldcutlass

Janebill, did you get your car running?

JPMDaddy

thanks Octania and Oldcutlass.... looks like its time to learn a lot more about the Olds 350. I figured they weren't interchangeable, didn't realize how major the differences are... Seriously!

oldcutlass

Not a lot that interchanges between Olds and Chevy, 2 different animals.

Fun71

Yeah, the distributor cap and rotor will interchange, and that's about it.

MDchanic

Awwww, c'mon. Don't sell it short.

Points and condenser (or HEI pickup and module).

Points-to-coil wire and grommet.

Cam grease wiper.

Vacuum advance.

Centrifugal advance weights and springs.

There are so many things in common, you could probably make a Chebby distributor work on an Olds with enough duct tape .

- Eric

oldcutlass

The plug wires and coil will work also. Hey have you heard back from the OP?

Fun71

Yeah, but you gotta turn the weights upside down 'cuz the Chevy distributor spins the wrong way.

We're probably not helping Jannebill at all with this kinda talk.