becerra66

heres a brief background just bought cutlass 350 4bbl on feb 14th

Last friday my belt broke off from Alternator, I replaced the belt on Saturday and replaced the battery, drove most of the day saturday no issues or warnings

On the way to work this morning about 20 mins into my drive Im pulling into parking lot at work the car backfired gen light came on and lost all power, barely made it to the parking spot

In neutral or park I can turn the ignition but nothing happens no sounds clicking nothing, No front lights at all but the buzzing sound still works

I went outside during lunch to test the battery with a voltmeter it read 12.56
as of now I will need to be towed home, any help would appreciate, dont really wanna pay for a tow truck i rather use that on parts I need

210-430-3307 help needed
19500 bulverde rd 78259

pogo69

i'm not sure if the back fire is related but sounds like your alt. has failed the battery needs to have a load test and the basics checked like clean tightconnections at the bat and starter

MDchanic

My first thought is some kind of an electrical failure.

I would clean the battery terminals carefully (the posts and the insides of the clamps should shine), and then check for voltage at important points, such as at the horn relay power distribution post, and at the large post of the starter solenoid.

If this is a car that has the main power takeoff from the starter solenoid to the horn wire, I would be sure to remove that wire and check for voltage / continuity and also be sure that the nut on the power post of the horn relay is tight and all of the wires there are clean and shiny.

The stall / backfire / loss or power could have been caused by an interruption in power - first for a fraction of a second, leading to several revolutions of the engine without a spark, leading to an accumulation of unburned fuel, then power restored for a second, fuel ignites, you get a backfire, then power out again, all of which could be from a loose connection.

It could also be from a timing chain jumping a tooth (not a parking lot repair - I've tried).

By the way, what year is it?

- Eric

lshlsh2

The alternator didn't slip causing the belt to become lose did it?

Larry

becerra66

So I did some reading what about the regulator, this morning i NOTICED that when I got in the car the inside light was SUPER bright, which was odd to me...and the buzz sound was also very loud...
Dont forget Im at work getting under the car may be an issue right now...


I went out during lunch, I see a green wire coming from a box that is broken..
If you look at the picture theres a red broken wire which I repaired a few weeks ago and I had the same issue no power to the car....
any suggestions

Damsel In Distress

becerra66

Ok thank god for Pictures, I did find the disconnected line..there was one of those wire connectors those twist on...once I put the green wire back together the car got power and it started right up

You guys are awesome...thanks for all your help....

Its really wonderful to have you all at my fingertips....I dont feel so lost, cause any question I have someone knows what they are talking about or have gone thru the same issues...any ways no tow truck or parts just electrical tape and electrical twisty thingys

Professur

The joy of owning a car you actually have a hope of fixing. Glad it worked out for ya.

becerra66

I have had several issues from this box..wires break from here and the car wont start what is it

pogo69

thats you external regulator and relay ...they sometimes need replacing

allyolds68

That relay is a mess. Is it a 66? I know in 68 the relay is on the left front fender. The red cable on top looks to go to the hot side of the relay and it's disconnected now (actually looks like it pulled out of that blue crimp connector). I wouldn't say that for sure though without looking where everything else goes. The green wire is probably your horn lead but that's the least of your problems.


BTW the nut doesn't even look like it's tight for the rest of the wires on the hot side.

Fun71

While that made for an easy repair, those twisty thingies (wire nuts) are not the correct thing to use on automotive wiring. You need something much more rugged and permanent, such as crimp connectors (called butt connectors) or solder and heat shrink tubing.

butt connector:


Tool for crimping connectors:


Here's a picture of what a good soldered wire-to-wire connection looks like:


Here's a pic showing the final soldered connection with heat shrink tubing over it. I would have used a longer length of shrink tube and twisted the wires as in the above picture, but you get the idea:
J4Vynm.jpg

MDchanic

As stated, the larger black box on the left in the picture (right side of the car) is your regulator and the smaller one next to it is the horn relay, which also serves as the main power distribution point for the car, and contains the ignition switch key-in buzzer.


Heck yeah. This is EXACTLY what I was picturing when I suggested a loose connection in my previous post, but I didn't imagine it would be this bad.

You need to go through this car and clean and tighten every connection you can find.
The previous owner was obviously an idiot, and you need to try to find the things that he screwed up and fix them before they strand you again.

Also, look up soldering on line, learn how to do it (very easy), and SOLDER every wire connection you can find.
Soldering irons, solder, and flux are very cheap and easy to find at yard sales and flea markets.
Twisted wires or wire nuts (those plastic twisty things) are prone to corrosion and self-disassembly and are unacceptable in a car.

- Eric

edit: looks like Kenneth beat me to the soldering suggestion... Thanks!

Octania

You can solder. It would be nice to have instruction- I bet a youtube instructional can be found. I had to teach our 18 yo intern to solder the other day, said he had never done it. He did very well for a neophtye. Use plenty of heat, and get a better soldering tool than you can afford- not a $3 one.

The huge red wire used to feed to/from that loose nut on the junction post of the horn relay/ junction block. That needs to be replaced with the proper repair part known as a FUSIBLE LINK. A fuse could be used i guess but that is not how the factory did it. They usually know best.

Try not to use the household type twisty things. If you must, at least tape them on so they stay.

PS that gaping HOLE in the firewall there where the hoses go thru? That is a HOLE. In your FIREwall. It should have at least a grommet to keep some of the fumes, heat, and [worst case] FIRE out of where the people are.

Agreed that you need to go over that car stem to stern and correct all the hokiness left by the PO....

becerra66

Yep that green wire didnt do anything all I know is the car started after I connected the line...so car started almost made it home again but the car cut off again lost of power...so agreed I need to go tighten, repair, replace what I can, so question could it be the regulator going bad, or has my alternator going bad..

Tmorrow if he starts I will remove the positive cable from battery to test alternator....

@ MDchanic, allyolds68 - that wire has been fixed I bought a variety pack of eyelets, but you have no idea...you mentioned this (horn relay, which also serves as the main power distribution point for the car, and contains the ignition switch key-in buzzer) ok the red wire that broke off from that box when it broke off the car was like dead, no power what so ever..same thing almost like today

they have mixed up wires and colors,
Ive never seen 2 black cables coming from the battery I was like WTheck, I didnt change it yet but I did wrap red tape around the positive cable CRAZY
@ pogo69
These pics are from when I first bought the car, the nut has been tighten, I replaced the eyelet coming from the red wire to

YES I know how to solder what kind of woman you think I am mannnnn
@Fun71 - great pics thats exactly what I need *--*
and I would rather buy the correct part FUSIBLE LINKs, butt connectors, I dont like to do stuff half azz...so appreciate all the help and guidance
Tool for crimping connectors, just bought one sunday at Sears and a new set of Dewalt....

MDchanic

I don't think so. Roght now you have a problem with bad connections.
I've seen no reason to believe that there's a problem with your regulator or your alternator.


Don't do that. It can potentially damage your charging system, and won't give you any useful information.

Just check your voltage with the motor running, both at idle and at 2,000 RPM.


Yeah, that can happen.

- Eric

becerra66

Ok ok Ok...

So when I test with voltmeter what should it read and the car has to be running
any steps would be helpful

becerra66

ok one more questions, 72 cutlass 350 5.7 4bbl
what side should the pvc valve go on...if Im facing the car, should it go on the right or left side...I thought the V6 has the pvc valve on the right and V8 should go on the left side

MDchanic

Check voltage of battery when not running, by placing red lead on (+) terminal and black lead on (-) terminal.

Start car. Run for a few minutes at fast idle, or drive it around for a little while.

Check voltage again at idle.

Rev to 2,000 RPM. Check again.

Now rev to 2,000 and check with red lead on big post on back of alternator and black lead on case of alternator.

Now turn on high beams, windshield wipers on High, and blower on High - check voltage at battery again, at idle and at 2,000 RPM.

Voltage should be around 14V while running, but with all accessories on, at idle, may be a bit lower.

If voltage is more than about 2 tenths of a volt higher at the alternator than at the battery under the same conditions, you've got some bad wires or connections.

- Eric

Fun71

From the factory the PCV valve went in the drivers side valve cover and there was a filter in the passengers side valve cover with a metal tube to the air cleaner.

becerra66

Ok Thanks guys again, I added a fusible link to the bad red wire connected to the box, also my alternator was bad so I replaced and replaced belt too...
Question for the power steering belt how do I replace that, from the pully is the adjustment nut/bolt in front or back

ansd the PCV valce how do I remove the grommet from the cover Iam having trouble remving it..its HARD

Cutlass back on the road this week

Thanks Fun71 and MDchanic

becerra66

you mean the smaller box on the right is the relay

MDchanic

Joe has explained this very well in the past:

Here is a diagram of the parts:





Well, first, if you don't HAVE to remove it, don't do it.
Second, if you DO have to remove it, you will need to break or cut it into pieces and carefully extract the pieces without letting anything too big go down into the valvetrain.
Third, note that the grommet that holds the PCV valve is generally available at any auto parts store (though they may not have it in stock), but the OTHER grommet, that holds the vent tube, may be out of production, depending on the year of your car (the tubes were different diameters). If you've got one of those, you can get it through Fusick, but it ain't cheap.
Fourth, as much fun as they are to get out, they can be a challenge to get in, as well.



You're welcome.



Again, the larger black box on the left in the picture (right side of the car) is your regulator and the smaller one next to it is the horn relay, which also serves as the main power distribution point for the car, and contains the ignition switch key-in buzzer.

- Eric

droldsmorland

These heat shrink covered butt splices are the cats butt. Heat the shrink tube to create a seal after you crimp the connector down onto the wire. Ideal for outdoor marine and automotive. Get the ones with he glue. There's only 2 better ways to fix a broken wire, solder n shrink tube or replace whole wire.

becerra66

So I did but a soldering tool at Sears last week I will do that this weekend

THANK THANKS thank you

MDchanic

VERY smart. Soldered joints don't come apart or corrode.

If your wires are a bit icky, you may benefit from some extra flux (in addition to the flux already inside of your rosin core solder) to help clean it up.

If you come across old solder, like at a flea market or yard sale, or just sitting around in your or a friend's basement, it will probably work better than the newer stuff, which no longer contains lead (as far as I know).

Remember that to do it right, you get the iron nice and hot first, then apply it to the joint, then flow in the solder, touching the object you're soldering with the solder to melt it.
A lot of heat quickly will do better than a little heat slowly (such as leaving the tip against the joint as the tip warms up), which will allow the heat to spread beyond where you're working, and melt insulation, etc.

You want to be sure that the solder spreads throughout the joint and is completely melted - if it's just "kinda melted" you'll get a "cold joint," which can easily be cracked apart.

Also, heat shrink tubing is the best insulation, as it cannot unwrap over time, but if you use it, you have to slide it at least a few inches away from where you're working - if it's too close while you're soldering, the heat conducted down the wire will shrink it and you won't be able to get it over the joint.

Finally, post a picture of your soldering iron - there are many types, and if it's too small, it will be inadequate for larger wires (or you'll have to be very patient).
For this sort of work, there isn't much danger of it's being too big.

If you have a joint you just soldered, and you're trying to hold it still so that it solidifies before falling apart, just spit on it - it'll cool it instantly.

And, You're welcome!

- Eric

becerra66

Craftsman Solder Iron, 30 watt or 45 WAtt, not sure but I havent opened it yet...How many watts do I need..Its been about 24 years that Ive soldered but I soldered for 3 years so hopefully it will be like riding a bike

MDchanic

Yeah, just like riding a bike.

I would say that what you've got is fine for most things, but if you're soldering wire in the 10ga range, it may take a while to really heat the wire up properly.

If you come across one of those Weller inductive-heated gun-type units, they seem a bit better to me for car wiring, while the pen-type are a bit better for circuit boards and such.

30 or 45 watt is a bit heavy for fine circuitry, but will work fine for bigger circuit boards and tube equipment, and will be fine for wire up to 10 or 12ga, if you're patient.

- Eric

becerra66

I cant thank you (MDchanic) all enough, really..I am so glad I fell into this website...all of you at my finger tips, (SWEET) its the most AWESOME thing..I feel totally confident with all the advice Ive been getting....

Every day I drive my cutlass to work I am smiling for no apparent reason..it just makes me HAPPY

MDchanic

We stand at your service.

- Eric

droldsmorland

"

Thats called the car bug sh*T eating grin...we all have it. Dont try to get a doctor to fix it. Its not broken.

PS Pics of the car and owner for your avitar is always cool. Check out the user CP in the drop down bar at the top. Also if your doing a search for anything I find that Google works great and will bring you directly back to the exact thread here and other sites.

becerra66

LOL I totally LOVE the feeling...It makes it MO better for me cause I am a chic...doing most of the work on my own...

FEELING AWESOME!!!!

Yes that's it...I've got the bug eat sh_tn Grin for sure...

when Im crusing with my 15 yr old daughter she also has the grin lol....she says we get to much attention in the car

Octania

The GrinMaker, ah yes

this looks to me to be a good bargain for 40W
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WELLER-WLC10...item58b678a904

these pistol type are generally in the 200W range and make larger wires a breeze.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Large-Lot-Of...item41925c59cc

wait, what, you are a grrl?

I thought the CAR was the damsel in distress.

just kidding

ps for clarity, rather than using the observer's Left and Right, which vary as the observer moves, it is best to refer to parts and such on the car using the CAR's left and right. Or, Driver vs. Passenger side... but that can vary with RH Drive vehicle, whereas the car's Left is always the car's Left, period. No confusion.

As for your valve cover grommets, I agree to leave them alone if at all possible. if they NEEEEED to be replaced, spend the $40 and get real GM ones.
Last time it tired to use a parts store PCV grommet it was a struggle to get into the cover- rubber too hard and incorrect shape where the rocker cover material should reside- and so there was NO WAY to get the PCV valve into the grommet. I pulled it and dug out a new GM one and...

It went right in
the rubber was the proper softness
the PCV slipped right in with hand pressure like it should.

Worth $40?
Oh, yeah, just in time and aggravation.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-OLDSMOBI...ebed6e&vxp=mtr

droldsmorland

when Im crusing with my 15 yr old daughter she also has the grin lol....she says we get to much attention in the car[/QUOTE]

Excellent job bringing up the next generation to carry on! Be sure she knows what grease looks like under her fingernails...and how to clean it out!
Nice lookin ride by the way. Is that the factory code 65 flame orange poly??

becerra66

funny octania, giggle giggle...I m not just grrl, Not your typical gal...Total opposite..Although I do dress up pretty nice...Im a cowboy boot ..love tools...rocks....BBQ smokin kind of chic....pictures I have a album.....

becerra66

No no its primer red.....yes when we first started looking at older cars...she loved them too...yes...I am trying to teach her about tools and getting dirty...but she hurt my ears and said to me MOM I dont like tools though...I was like NOOOOOOO

MDchanic

I looked at your gallery - the car looks pretty good, actually.

You've GOT to get rid of that pickup truck steering wheel, with the C-word right in the middle of the hub, though.




I replied to your PM via e-mail, in case you were looking for a PM - my PM box is always too full.

Keep the dirty side down and the sort-of-shiny side up.

- Eric

droldsmorland

Ha this thread went way off in the weeds... lol...well all ya can do is lead by example. Some times our kids dont take the route we'd prefer but at least the exposure gives perspective and she'll at least know the difference between cookie cutter cat eyed crap car of today from a distinctive one back when emphasis was put on style and chrome and speed...Its up to us to hand it off to their gen!

becerra66

I know I know...Ive been looking high_low...thanks for pointing that out...soon soon...that's pik ayaya...got an extra one...mail me one....lol

becerra66

I'm lost the conversation...sometimes you all talk in lingo...not understanding yet.. Pm email...???.dont see a reply any where

MDchanic

You sent me a Private Message, or PM, a day or so ago.

On this site, you have a limit of 200 PMs at a time. That number is actually pretty small, and they add up, and my box is always full, so having back-and-forth conversations via PM tends to lead to time-wasting search and deletion of other PMs, so that I can make space.

If you click on a person's name to the left of their post, a menu will come down that allows you to PM them or to e-mail them. Most e-mail these days has no size or numeric storage limits, so it's much more convenient to use.

I responded to your PM by e-mailing you through the ClassicOlds server, so you have an e-mail message from ClassicOlds waiting at the e-mail address that you used when you signed up here.

- Eric