Seff

I put two cars together for my project. A '71 and a '72. Neither was untouched. The '71 came with standard lights with bulbs, the '72 came with halogen lights where you can't replace the bulbs. Reading the '72 CSM, the '72 seems to have come with so-called Sealed Beams, which sounds like the halogen lights I have - but are they better than the '71 lights?

Seff

Having just regained my senses, I did a forum search and concluded that the sealed beam design is the obsolete kind, and unless I run really crappy bulbs in my current lamps, I would be better off keeping the current ones.

MDchanic

All US manufacturers were required to use sealed-beam bulbs from (if I'm not mistaken) the late '40s (possibly early '50s), because replaceable-bulb reflectors tended to tarnish, rust, and dull, and the new-technology sealed-beams were immune to these problems.

Replaceable-bulb lamps were illegal in the US until somewhere around the early '80s, which is why all those Mercedes, Porsches, and BMWs with the fancy headlights had crappy Sylvania sealed-beams when sold in the US.
You could covertly source Euro lamps from overseas, but if you were pulled over and the cop noticed them, you could get a ticket.

All of the Olds that we commonly discuss on these boards came with non-halogen sealed beams (the '90s cars that are not commonly discussed had replaceable bulbs).

The replaceable-bulb lamps that you have are probably much better than any sealed-beams, unless they're Chinesium crap.

- Eric

Seff

They have 'Made in Germany' on them, so I think I'm good. The outer lamps have provisions for that second little Euro parking bulb, but it doesn't have a bulb or wires.

The funniest thing about it is that the outer lights aren't two-phase, so the outers are headlights only, while the inners are brights only. The second headlight wire is still present in one side.

Thanks.

MDchanic

Are they H1, H4, or something else?

H4s have two filaments for high / low, but H1s don't.

- Eric

Seff

None of them have two plugs, so how could they have two filaments?

MDchanic

H1s, I guess.

They made outer housings for either H1s or H4s, but the lenses and reflectors are different for each, so you can't just pop the other one in.

- Eric

brddg

Show us some pictures Seff. I lived in Germany for 3 years when I was a kid and iI never heard of this.

Seff

So running H1s in the outer lenses could mean I am blinding people? Hold on, I'll take a look at them real quick.

MDchanic

Not if the lenses and reflectors were for use as low-beams.

Theoretically, you shouldn't be able to swap the high and low beam bulbs, because the three locating tabs on each bulb are in different places.
Same reason you can't put them in upside-down.

- Eric

Seff

I'm sure people have managed it anyway. Deeming by the picture and the bulbs, I have only H1 fixtures. Apparently I'm running H1 55W across the board, yet they look different. Newer generations, maybe? Oh, and my brights stopped working after I put them back in - only a zapping noise from the headlight switch. >.>

Even though the bulbs are both H1s, the bright one is MUCH more blinding. I blinded myself in broad daylight, before they crapped out on me.


Low-beam on the left, hi-beam on the right.
sES53nC.jpg

Low-beam. H1, in the bottom. 55W.
e58MJYg.jpg

Hi-beam. H1, upper left. Also 55W.
aGmEJjW.jpg

Pass. side. Note the head of the screw visible on the parking light fixture, unwired, in the outer socket.
pwrWlbL.jpg

"Hella". There you go.
pzb432y.jpg

Outer/low-beam. Hole for parking light visible underneath.
adEFDKi.jpg

Hi-beam.
HENPvVg.jpg

MDchanic

Yes, two different versions of the H1. The beam focus should be the same for both.

In my book, those four 55W bulbs are just a bit more than I would like to run without a relay.
The stock bulbs are 35W/35W for the outers and 50W for the inners, adding up to 70W on low beam / 170W on high beam.
The 55s add up to 110W either way, which is more on Low and less on High, but if you ran relays, you'd almost definitely have brighter lights, and you'd be able to run brighter high beam bulbs if you wanted to.
My Chevelle has a set of Hella H1 high beam bulbs, possibly just like those, and I have 130s in them, and, let me tell you, they light up the road.

- Eric

Seff

I'm gonna have to read up on relays.

As it stands now, the housing around (and thereby presumably) the headlight switch gets rather warm when I run the light for a long time. That's because I'm at the limit of what can be done without a relay?

MDchanic

I'd say.

Note that most older Europan cars, and all modern cars, use relays for their headlights.

All you need to do is run two heavy (10 or 12 gauge) fused wires from the (+) battery post, along the core support, to the switch terminals of two cubical DIN-spec. 30A relays, attach one of your headlight wires (presumably the "first" one on the driver's side outer bulb) to one coil terminal of each relay (one for High, one for Low), ground the other set of coil terminals, and run heavy wires from the other side of the switch terminals to the respective headlight terminals.

Headlight switch turns on power, power goes to coil and pulls in switch contacts, switch contacts complete circuit along heavy wire from battery to light terminals, light lights up.

It's also a good idea to improve the ground wires from the bulbs to the core support.

You'll be surprised how much brighter they'll be.

- Eric

Seff

Sounds simple enough. Shouldn't one feed wire, of ample thickness, be enough, as long as it feeds both relays?

MDchanic

Sure, if that's your cup of tea, but it's often easier to run two than to splice and insulate one.
Y- and T-connections and all that.

- Eric

Seff

I'll figure something out. Now I have a project for tomorrow! \ö/

Seff

Operation complete. Took two hours, including the shopping and the clean-up.

Bonus question: My 'hot' idiot light doesn't come on when I crank. I switched bulbs with the 'oil' lamp, so the bulb works. Out came the gauge, and I read somewhere that the light gets its ground through the feeler in the engine during normal operation, and through the ignition switch when cranking. I unplugged the battery, stuck a ohmmeter peg in the dark green (temp gauge) wire socket, and the other end grounded. Then I cranked. No connection.

So, how does the ignition switch make the 'hot' bulb light up?

Bonus 2: Is it feasible to splice the wire running to the bumper light, then install a small bulb in the 'parking light' socket discussed above? I feel like people can't see that I have my turn signal on when they're ahead of me, especially in bright sunlight. Could I make it ONLY flash when I'm indicating, or would it be constantly lit with two powers, like the bumper light? EDIT: Seems that wiring it up to light and dark blue for right and left side respectively would make it light up only when indicating.

MDchanic

Great! Easy, no?



I just looked at the diagram, and I don't think it does.



So you want the signal light to illuminate the headlight reflector, as in some late-model Mercedes.

Sure.
The turnsignal bulbs have two filaments each, one for the turnsignal, and one for the parking light.
Just connect the signal light line in parallel with an appropriate bulb, and ground the other side of the bulb, and you should be good.
Use the line that goes from the switch to the light, not the one from the light to the sidemarker.

If you find the brightest yellow-colored bulb you can get, this should work pretty well.

- Eric

Seff

Very easy. :P


If the ignition switch doesn't, then how DOES the 'hot' light get lit when cranking? Looking at the wiring diagram, the dark green wire splits rear of the "Engine & Generator Dash Connector" and runs to the ignition switch, noted 'GRD.' which I assume is ground.


I thought so. If I'm reading the wiring diagram right, the aforementioned blue wires are turn signal in the front end, while the brown one is parking lights.

MDchanic

Whoops - I didn't see that back-feed wire to the ignition switch.
Yes, when the switch is in the Start position, that lug should be grounded, which should make the Hot light light up.


Yes, the Brown should be the parking lights, the Light Blue and Dark Blue should be the front signals.

- Eric

Seff

Turn signal experiment will be conducted when I'm back at the workshop. I don't have any bulbs that will work currently. Considering reversing the procedure so that the new, extra bulb will be my mandated daytime driving lights, and my bumper lamps will only light up when I'm indicating. That way people can clearly tell that I'm turning, even at night, where my headlight might otherwise outshine the smaller bulb completely.

I went ahead and took out the gauge again, looked for a connection between the green wire in the steering column connector and the gauge connector. No connection, so I have a break somewhere in between. Inside that huge jumble of wires. Lovely. >.> I guess there's no way around having to trace that wire until I find the problem. Maybe the connector between the two is behind the fuse box?

MDchanic

I have no good ideas on this one.

Just to be clear, you did ground the green oil temperature sender wire, with the ignition ON, and the light didn't light up, right?

Most likely location for a problem is within the engine compartment, where bad things happen to wires, but, if the Hot light doesn't illuminate when you turn the key to Start, AND if the GND lug on the ignition switch is working properly, then the problem must be on the inside of the firewall, behind the dash.
I do not know where the splice in the wire is.

As far as the signal light / running light question:
One good way to turn regular lights into running lights is to use the high beam bulbs, and turn them into running lights (you could use the low beam bulb, too, if you preferred).
You simply connect a relay (It'd take a few minutes to construct the exact circuit) so that when the headlight switch is Off, the high beam bulbs are connected in series with one another, and to battery power, and when the headlight switch is On, they are connected to the headlight circuit as they normally are.
That way, the high beams, which have a broad angle of illumination, are on all the time, but at half brightness, so they don't appear too bright to oncoming drivers.

- Eric

Seff

It took me three tries to understand what you meant, but I'll just go ground it real quick and see if it lights up. What I had initially done was to check if the wire worked with the multimeter. Same difference. Anyway, it worked, light in RUN position with the engine compartment end of the wire grounded. So, the fault is in the wire, somewhere between the steering column and the firewall. Lovely.


Regarding headlights: That's certainly also an option. I don't see what's keeping my running light from being on when the car is turned off, though. I'm not the best at electrical systems. Plus, I don't have high beams with two modes of operations, only H1 bulbs in all sockets. :P
So far I've been running with normal headlights, and never got the impression it annoyed people. Been testing with the parking lights only lately, since it's more elegant.

MDchanic

Seff, here's a quick diagram I made showing how to use the high beams as running lights.

All you need is one DPDT relay, and you connect it after the ignition switch, so the lights turn on when you turn the car on, and off when you turn it off.

If you do it with the high beams, and leave the low beams alone, the high beams will glow half-bright all the time, even with the headlights on (unless you switched on the high beams), which I think would look pretty cool.



- Eric

Seff

That WOULD look cool, but is there a resistor in the relay or something, to make the high beams glow half-bright? Otherwise I'm not seeing some aspect of the design - which is quite possible.

MDchanic

Indeed. It falls under the heading of "Stupid Electrical Tricks."

Current = Power ÷ Voltage, so a 55W bulb ÷ 14V = 4A current draw

Resistance = Voltage ÷ Current, so 14V ÷ 4A = 3.5Ω resistance per light bulb

So, each 55W bulb has 3.5Ω resistance, and each light draws 4A, so both bulbs in parallel, as they are normally, draw 8A total (resistance in parallel is 1/x + 1/y + 1/z +... = 1/Total).

BUT, resistors in a series have their resistance added, so 2 55W bulbs in series offer 7Ω resistance.

Current = Voltage ÷ Resistance, so 14V ÷ 7Ω = 2A

So, you go from 2 bulbs in parallel drawing 8 amps, to 2 bulbs in series drawing 2 amps, or a quarter as much, which will probably (depending on the light-radiating qualities of the bulb filaments) produce about a quarter (or less) of the original light.

- Eric

Seff

That IS quite cool. I should have known that - but I haven't used electric systems since grad school. It was sorely neglected in high school.

Good thing they just allowed driving around in daytime without rear lights, huh? Otherwise it would have become twice as complicated.

Allan R

I started reading this thread and am so glad that my car uses conventional sealed beam lights. As I read through the posts it started to look more like this to me...

Πράγματι. Εντάσσεται υπό τον τίτλο "Stupid Ηλεκτρολόγων κόλπα."

Τρέχουσα = Δύναμη ÷ τάση, έτσι, ένα 55W λάμπα ÷ 14V = 4Α σημερινή κλήρωση

Αντίσταση = Τάση ÷ ρεύμα, ώστε ÷ 14V 4A = 3.5Ω αντίστασης ανά λαμπτήρα

Έτσι, κάθε 55W λάμπα έχει 3.5Ω αντίσταση, και κάθε φως αντλεί 4Α, έτσι και οι δύο λάμπες παράλληλα, όπως είναι συνήθως, σχεδιάστε 8A συνολικά (αντίσταση παράλληλα είναι 1 / x + 1 / y + 1 / z + ... = 1/Total).

ΑΛΛΑ, αντιστάσεις σε σειρά έχουν αντοχή τους προστίθεται, έτσι ώστε 2 55W λαμπτήρες σε σειρά προσφορά 7Ω αντίσταση.

Τρέχουσα = Τάση Αντίσταση ÷, έτσι 14V ÷ 7Ω = 2A

Έτσι, μπορείτε να πάτε από 2 λαμπτήρες παράλληλα 8 κατάρτιση ενισχυτές, με 2 λαμπτήρες σε σειρά κατάρτιση 2 ​​ενισχυτές, ή το ένα τέταρτο τόσο πολύ, που πιθανότατα θα (ανάλογα με το φως ακτινοβολίας ιδιότητες των ινών λάμπα) παράγει περίπου το ένα τέταρτο (ή λιγότερο) του αρχικού φωτός.

Seff

...I gather you're not a electrics guy either? :P Will it be clearer if I take copious amounts of pictures?

Allan R

You gather correctly. I can handle small things and do some basic troubleshooting which gets me by.

Probably not although having a picture file of the process is a good idea. Looks like Eric has you covered on this thread. Good luck with your headlight wiring and running those relays.

Seff

Hahah, thanks man. I'm sure I'll have fun.

MDchanic

Τι συμβαίνει, Allan; Δεν μπορείτε να διαβάζω ελληνικά;

- Εριc

Seff

Prøv dét her, drenge. Ikke noget med at bruge oversættelse; det er for nemt.

Paladin31

Nice one Allan, looks like Greek to me. And it is good to have you back again. Brett

Allan R

Λοιπόν Eric, ας το θέσουμε σε προοπτική,
1. Δεν μπορώ να διαβάσω ελληνικά.
2. Θα ήθελα να χαθεί χωρίς το google μεταφραστή
3. Οι περισσότεροι από το συγκρότημα ηλεκτρικών πράγματα διαβάζεται σαν ελληνικό για μένα!

Ναι, αυτό είναι περίπου το μέγεθος του ...

BTW, in your diagram you have a double pole double throw relay, but your post says to use a double pole single throw. ????

Yes, I agree!

You nailed it Brett. Thank you.

TripDeuces

I used the Hella headlights for awhile but didn't like them. I've since gone back to halogen sealed beams and like them much better. Simple, no fuss no muss.

MDchanic

Me too.


Yikes! Thanks. D is right next to S on the keyboard, and my fingers sometimes go wherever they want to .

- Eric

Seff

So. Easiest 'hot' wire to send out in front of the battery? My car USED to have rear defog, so I guess that hot brown wire at the unused regulator (now have internally regulated alternator) plug will do just fine. Probably disconnecting the running light portion of the bumper lights, if this works out - will make it easier for people to see where I'm going.

MDchanic

For headlights or other high-current loads, I would recommend taking off directly from the (+) terminal of the battery, with the hot post of the horn relay as a distant second possibility (either one through an inline fuse, of course).

- Eric