455rocketv8

It's me again - fresh off the repair of my heater blower motor. Another problem ... the signal lights and the windows all stopped working at the same time a couple of months back. Fuse for signal lights blows as soon as I turn the ignition switch. Have done some hunting around ... DREADING trying to fix these problems ... but it is getting dangerous and rude with no signals.

So after I kill myself looking for a short for 3 weeks ... what would stop me from running power from the battery to another fuse box mounted somewhere under the hood ... then connecting the signals and windows directly through that?

There is spaghetti soup under the dash ... previous owner seems to have done some "work".

I realize the elegant thing to do is find the real problem ... but man is it a mess.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Byron

76 Regency

Hi Byron,

It's too bad that the previous owner messed things up for you because these cars are typically very good in the electrical area. It seems to me that you have a short somewhere in the ignition switch area. The windows and signals only work with the car in the "on" position. They could be completely separate issues but either way, I would start by pulling the door panel off and testing the window motor(s) directly. If they work fine then trace the wires back and look for a break or loose connection, etc. For any fuse to blow immediately, there has to be a short somewhere. I suppose you could try "rigging" it like you suggested but for the amount of work that will take, I would much rather tear it apart and find the root of the problem. You may end up fixing something else in the process.

Good luck!
John

Allan R

Bryon, just curious about this. Do your 4 way flashers work?

76 Regency

I was thinking the same thing Allan.

Byron, just as a hunch. If you 4 ways are working, try switching the flasher units under the dash. You never know, it could just be something as simple as the flasher which you can buy just about anywhere and change in about 10 seconds.

Allan R

John, what I wanted to see is if the wiring through the flasher was good to the tail lights. He'll need to install a new fuse to test that though (without turning on the key - the 4 way flashers are independent of the ignition) To blow out a 20 amp fuse as soon as the ignition is turned sounds like there may be a short, likely in the cross wiring jungle under the dash. This might be one of those cases where he might have to just start backtracking wires and also check the relay for the PW. If he has PW/PSeats it should be the same relay so if the windows don't work but the seat does, that eliminates the relay as the problem.

EDIT: could also be a very bad ground

76 Regency

Gotcha. Most likely it has a power seat but you're right, it would be the same relay. For it to be blowing fuses immediately, I'd agree that it's most likely a short. God only knows what the previous owner did to that poor car. Some people should really just not mess with cars.

I'm helping a friend with his '76 Regency coupe. He bought it new and has had many people do lots of "custom wiring" over the years. It's such a mess of terrible splices, TWISTED connections (no solder!) and wires that don't even belong. I have the whole dash out and I'm ripping every last piece out that doesn't belong, trying to get it back to factory so things will hopefully start to work again. Byron's car doesn't sound as bad as my friend's so hopefully he won't need to do quite as extensive of a diagnosis.

MDchanic

Okay, a quick review of my 1973 CSM (the copies on WAC for these years have lousy schematics) shows

• the Pink "IGN1" wire comes off the ignition switch (ON in the RUN and START positions), goes to the coil (through the resistor wire),
• and also supplies two fuses: the "DIR SIG BACK-UP" (20A) and the "GAUGES TRANS." (10A).
• From the DIR SIG BACK-UP fuse, power goes to the green wire that powers the Throttle Stop Solenoid, the Back-up lights, the Seat Belt Warning Light and Buzzer (one connection to the buzzer, another to the light), and to the turn signal flasher, and through that to the signal lights.
• From that fuse, power also goes to the Accessory Block power tap on the front of the fuse block (bottom tap, labeled "ACCY").
• The bottom ACCY tap is the designated feed for:
  • True Track Brakes
  • Electric Window Relay (through a Black-Pink wire that goes to a relay connected to a large muti-terminal block way up above the Left kick panel)
  • Cruise Control
  • Seat Belt Warning Relay

I believe you don't have the seatbelt warning stuff in the '71, so you can ignore that.

So...
The fuse that keeps blowing (DIR SIG BACK-UP) supplies the signals (which don't work) and the power window relay (windows don't work), as well as the back-up lights (which I'd bet don't work) and the Throttle Stop Solenoid, which is probably disconnected and hanging.

Therefore...
You have a short in one of these circuits.

The first place I would look would be the Throttle Stop Solenoid wire.
These solenoids looked "wrong" to most older car guys, and were often disconnected, as they looked like some kind of foreign addition to the engine, which might rob power.
If the wire for this solenoid (Green with solid White stripe, should be near the carb., but could have fallen down alongside the engine) is touching ground, then that's your problem.

If not, then...

If you pull the turn signal flasher (located on the two-wire pigtail above the driver's Left knee) and the problem persists, that rules out the turn signals.

If you pull the backup light plug from the neutral start switch (green and pale green wires) and the problem persists, that rules out the back-up lights.

If you pull the wire out of the ACCY socket on the face of the fuse block and the problem persists, that rules out the power window relay (note that the power windows themselves draw their power from the top socket labeled "PWR RLY" through the 40A breaker in the top Left corner, so they can NOT be the cause of your problem - the relay just turns on the power to the windows when the ignition switch is turned on).

If you pull all four of these wires (assuming you have no seatbelt warning light circuit) and the problem still happens, then you've got a short somewhere in your wiring harness and you're on your own!

- Eric

455rocketv8

Hi Guys,

Thanks for getting back to me.

Yes, the power seat still works ... correct, the back up lights do not! I figured I knocked a wire loose in the trunk ...

Never heard of the throttle stop solenoid and I did repair a bad vacuum line on the distributor 2 days before this happened and could have knocked that wire loose ... I will look there 1st!

As suggested earlier, I have more manuals on the way! What did we do before the internet and ebay ??

Electrical things have always been a bit of a mystery to me ... I am viewing this is a GREAT education ... hopefully will learn a few things and maybe can help someone else along the line. If I don't run screaming through the nite first ...

Will be a few days before I can look at this ... but when I do, will let you know.

Thanks again so much.

Byron

76 Regency

Good luck Byron. Electrical's really not all that bad. Retrace your steps with the work you recently did and look all around the nearby areas to see if there are any loose, broken, bare wires that may be causing a short. Your service manual with the wiring schematic will be very helpful too.

455rocketv8

OK ... I am really not well versed on the most appropriate way to say thank you on this forum ... but holy sh#$% do I owe you a thanks!

I ran outside at lunch to do the one thing I could do on lunch which was look for the Throttle Stop Solenoid wire (never HEARD of a throttle stop solenoid). Saw it running under the air cleaner, gave a pull, and out it came in my hand.

Had to be 30 year old electrical tape on the connector which had melted away and clearly the connector had sort of "fused" to the intake manifold.

New tape, new fuse ... signal lights, windows, back up lights !!!!! 3 minutes !!!!

When it gets warmer I will remove the wire and do a nice job of it ...

I thought this was going to be weeks worth of time and massive frustration ...

I wonder how many folks even back when the cars were newer removed this solenoid and then blam?

Thanks again for all of your help!

I swear someday I will know something someone else wont and I will help back in return.

Take Care,

Byron

MDchanic

You're welcome, Byron.

The folks here on this thread are always glad to help, and always happy to hear that things are working well!

Personally, it feels great to help someone and have them reply with thanks and good wishes.

I'm sure you will be able to help someone else - the trick is to keep your eyes open for questions you can answer.

Glad you got 'er done!

- Eric

76 Regency

Awesome! Glad she's back to normal Byron. Always great to have things working right in your 98!

Eric, you rock!

Allan R

Yay! I love a fully functioning car that doesn't cost lots to fix! Now you can cruise with the heat on and legally with the lights fixed. Amazing how sometimes it's the simplest and easiest things.

Eric will remember that from our 'chuggin Cutlass' buddy.....

MDchanic

Thanks, John.

And don't get me started, Allan - I'll start having flashbacks.