I have a 69 Cutlass convertible with a factory AM. I have managed to acquire an original AM/FM stereo and 8 track I want to install as per the factory. However, I am unsure where the rear speaker is installed. Can anyone help.

 

Hey there, I've only had my Cutlass a short while, but I don't think that convertibles have rear speakers. Mine has one in the center of the front dash and one in each front kick panel under the dash, but I don't recall seeing one anywhere in the rear areas of the car.
Rob

 

WelcomeSaskatchewan,

I moved your question out in the open for others to se easier.

The 1970-72 verts had 6x9 rear speaker(s) mounted in the metal triabgular structure between the back seat and the trunk. Here is how my '72's is...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalb...7602930020786/

Can someone confirm if the 1969 uses the same setup?

Also, the number of 6x9's used in the back has been debated before - some said one and some say two. I had two back there that were the right vintage, and have been there a LONG time, but the wiring was kludgy, so I cannot confirm it was all factory...

 

'68 and '69 Cutlass had the same speaker location as the '70-'72 converts...in the rear tri-angle facing rearward through the bag material held in place with special screws and nuts and a grille...when the top is down you can hardly hear it at all...so we just put a loose speaker in the back seat in it's own enclosure, wherever it won't be in the way..and if you want more volume, hold it tightly...

 

They only used one rear speaker on the right although there are two identical holes...

 

This is what I have been hearing. I heard Chevelles got two...
I did have the U80 option.
Did the original speakers look like these (bottom ones)?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalb...7602930020786/

They are identical in pretty much every way; I think they are from the correct decade... One has a blue wire (matches my factory wire) and the other has a brown wire.
Recon the brown-wired one came out of another similar car? Maybe both did.
This may always be a mystery...

 

I have a 69-98 convertible and the rear speaker is in the center back location at the top of the rear seat.

 

That was a MUCH smarter setup! At least yours is aimed towards the passengers! Hey - what a concept!
The A-body verts had it firing backwards into the convertible top boot... (really the trunk area!) With the top down, the latter is very descriptive - you can not hear it well if at all.

With my two new 6x9s in the factory locations, and the rear triangle sealed up with dynamat, and 50WRMS going to each speaker, sound is still muffled and obscurred, esp with the top down. The only thing it does well is vibrates the rear seat at high volume. For this reason I call the back seat the rumble seat...

What were those design engineers smoking when they came up with that A-body speaker setup???

 

Coldwar -
If you go taking things apart in the back, be sure and get some pictures of that rear speaker setup and please post! I am still curious to where my old ones speakers came from.

For these convertibles, it may be better to build a flat wood enclosure for two good 6x9s and place it under the top boot (as high as top-down clearance allows). At least this way you have better retention and control of the back wave and allows you to fire the sound upward and not backwards. Unfortunately, the top-down performance will still not be that good.

Your plywood in the boot method would be a big improvement, I'm sure.

Getting that stock rear triangle setup to sound "ok" takes a lot of effort... This is why my car's last owner put 6.5's in the rear armrests.

 

I think the AM and AM-FM radios got one front and one rear speaker- even the stereo units. 8-track combinations got two rears.

1970 was the last year the big convertibles got the forward-firing rear speaker. 71-later were rear-firing, and barely audible with top down.

 

Just to add to something I know nothing about. I believe 69 was the first year for Stereo radio. Or at least that's what I've been told.

I do remember a friend of mine's brother in law had a Toro with book case speakers sitting on the nice flat floor.

 

i am kinda torn between keeping the old or not. My original radio and rear speaker work fine but I was thinking of putting in an underdash mounted cd. When I got it it already had an 8-track player mounted under the dash and I guess that was why there are two speakers in the rear panels. No idea if they work cause the 8-track was garbage and I took it out. I suppose I could use the already existing holes in the rear panels for new speakers and see what I can do with the rear seat speaker. I wonder if there is enough space for 2 6x9's. I have 4 400 watt 6x9's in the van not to mention 3 10" subs pumped with a 1000 watt kicker mono. Come to think of it ..... that box would go in the trunk?????

 

It was available in B/C/E in 1967-8, but it was a big multiplexer adapter thing that hung under the dash. 69 was the year they went to semi-integrated units that the stereo convector was hidden behind the dash. 71 was first year for fully integrated AM-FM stereo radios, but 8-tracks still had the separate convector amp thru at least 1976.

 

Mine does not seem to have any music from the back of the car, except for the tail pipes. They may not even be there or maybe they're busted or disconnected. And i've only just passed the 1 month anniversary of ownership so I haven't went over her with a fine toothe comb yet. There is an aftermarket am/fm cassette and kick panel speakers which don't appear stock. The center das speaker doesn't speak or sing or anything? Sounds like this too shall go on the ever growing list of to do's.
Rob

 

After a while, people get tired of driving with their heads turned towards the side window in order to get the stereo effect...
Therefore, they disconnect them and put in door speakers like Lady's PO did to her.

 

Watch out that the to do list doesn't becomes the never gets done list.

 

I'll be installing an underdash Olds 8-track in my Vista soon too.
There's the center front and right rear speaker in all the 'verts I've ever seen, my '68 GTO is like that and it is ridiculous.
Get a full-size center rear seat speaker set-up and have a trim shop install it in your seat and it would be slick. Very few people would ever know it's isn't stock.
Front to rear sounds fine, you got to do the gangster lean and look to the left when you're driving to get the full stereo effect.

 

'66 Cads had stereo..but Cutlass did not get stereo 'till '69, a two piece and later in '71 it was a one piece...

 

talking to a freid of mine who does stereo installations recommended thatI should kee the original radio rear speaker setup. I will have to check out the front as i get no sound from the front but I could replace with an aftermarket. He would put in an underdash unit with a 4 speaker setup using the existing speaker holes put into the rear panels with an additional 2 added to the front. The new generation speakers are smaller so you can get a lot of bang for the size. A subwoofer setup for the trunk is optional but would take additional amp and you would have to deal with any rattles caused by them. The kicker amp I have has a seperate bass volume control **** so you can control the intensity seperate of the other speakers.The biggest problem is the quality of sound in a convertible with the top down. Most of the sound tends to escape your ears in the front seat from speakers in the rear depending on your speed ( the faster you go the less you hear ).He recommends having mids and highs in the front , these can be small and unintrssive with full range in the rear , and optional subs in the trunk.

 

That's some good info. The one in my GP was a big two piece deal with a cable between them.
The assembly manual for '71 shows that stereo adapter and notes it was cancelled.

 

Interestingly, the B80 "BiPhonic rear speaker" was not available on the F-85 series convertibles through '67. But after that the rear speaker was "burried" as discussed here, and not in the cool grill on the back seatback.
I would think the '69 PIM (Product Information Manual) would have the location issues covered, but I haven't checked mine. Same for the other years in their PIMs for that matter.

 

[QUOTE=coldwar;67431]The blue and trunk shot of box are the '66, the last are the single rear speaker in my '72 - Sorry about the quality, could not get a good angle - The '72 back seat would not budge, to come out - Does the '66 stuff look factory to anyone - Thanks ~CW

Great pics CW. I'll look up and see what I can find on the '66. i had the same reverb unit in the first '66 442 I had. Was mounted on top of the hump over the axle, about in the middle.
It did give the plain AM radio a cool sound for its day!

I was always under the impression that the "BiPhonic" speaker was the "speaker in the middle of the seat" speaker. Possibly the B80 option evolved. I'll be checking it out!

 

What DID the reverb unit do? Give a fake stereo effect? An echo?

In 1972, the rear speaker optin was still called the U80 BiPhonic rear speaker. I thought it meant two rear speakers but I guess that was not the case with Olds 'verts. Maybe it meant two speakers in th car - one front, one back...

 

Rob you're too young to remember
It "reverberated" [kinda like a fast echo]

 

I figured it was like that; just wanted to confirm...
Now I was too young to know that I should have kept the one I found in a trash pile long ago... Of course I do not remember what it came out of - I just remember the words "reverberation unit" on the side. I still have some old AM radio up in the attic - it could have gone with that...

 

Thanlks for all the suggestions and ideas.
I'm completely new to forms and didn't expect so much response

 

No problem! We are all trying to learn more also...

Being new to the board, tell us a little more about yourself and your car when you get the time!

 

BiPhonic as opposed to stereophonic. stereophonic setups usually included 4 speakers and were available in home stereos long before car stereos. The trick in having a true stereophonic stereo lies with having a 4 channel radio , 8track , cd player etc. Biphonic would mean to me having a front and rear setup were you could fade front to back. I used to have a Roberts 8-track with 4 speakers (2 front 2 back ) but only 2 channels. I would not consider that full stereo. Alpine cassett decks revolutionized the car stereo industry , back then everybody made their own tapes but most patchwork cassetts sounded crappy so for 2 years Alpine made their own Home cassett decks specifically for recording high quality homemade tapes. I still have the first year model they made and it retailed for 1,299.00. I bought it second hand from the manager of the Alpine dealership for $350.00 . Still works great , it is huge and weighs a ton probably cause it has 2 motors and when I use it in sequence with my home stereo ( DVD , CD , Radio doesn't matter ) it doubles the output. I have 4 200 watt speakers and can't turn it over 3 on the dial . 10 being max , for fear of blowing the speakers.

 

Four speaker units were the "Quadraphonic" units weren't they? - I am old enough to remember those... The old-time "surround sound" systems. In the late 70s, quadraphonic was a hot addition to custom vans. Of course, this may have been only 2 speakers on each channel...
I am going to have to pull out my vintage stereo catalogs when i get home...

I thought stereophonic was just 2 speakers, one left and one right...

 

thinking back I had heard of quadraphonic systems but only in house systems. The original term "in stereo" would be a left and right channel each being independant. I do not know of any car stereo called quadraphonic but I am sure some higher end cars would have come equipped with a quad system. I have a quad system at home and it works just fine as a "surroun sound " feature cause all my equipment including my 52" sharp LCD and my Playstation is hooked to my stereo. I have an open concept living room dining room that runs almost full length of the house with 1 speaker in each corner. Freaks out the girlfriend sometimes when she thinks someone is knocking on the back door , but it's the tv. You are right that quad would be 4 independent channels and stereo was normally a left and right setup. Bi means 2 so I guess they called it that because there were 2 speakers 1 front 1 back? As far as reveberating speakers go they probably worked in the same manner as subwoofers work today. The foam or sponge around the sound cone causes the reverberation.

 

Quad is groovy man.


I ripped one of those reverb units open (like everything) when I was about 12.
There were 2 long coil springs inside with wires and stuff. It had something to do with those springs.


I don't know about having one in front and one in back but I do know that downtown those BiPhonics have a really strange parade here every year.

 

Good explanation of reverb, CW. I always thought of that "clang" as electronic thunder.
The reverberation was always advertised as a "concert hall" sound. The hall part was right!

BiPhonic is not stereo. It still just one channel that is just split front to back. Stereo is 2 channel. I don't think stereo was ever front to back, just left to right. And the the left (and right respectively) was again split front to back.

 

Coldwar,

Thanks for the reverb insight - the one I had looked much like the one you showed the insides from. I wish I kept that unit...

Also your picture of the crude '72 vert rear speaker got me looking at my car.
The top well on mine appears to be original and there are two big cutouts, one for the left and right speakers. BUT, the small grille holes bolt holes were only on the right side, meaning mine must have looked like yours from the factory. The bigger hole on the left side was cut neater than the right one also.
Interesting thing was that there were no impressions or dirt marks on the vinyle well where the grille would have been. Therefore, i bet those speakers were modified very early in the car's life...
One mystery of Lady is coming to a close...

I found Ladys broadcast sheet under the carpet by the LF seatbelt retractor; U80 was on there since it affected the Fisher assembly process.

 

Heres two scans of the options booklet that cam with the owners manual and warranty booklet with my 69. Hopefully you can read the paragraph "F" and as you see the gentlemen in the illustration it shows 1 speaker in front and 1 in the back. Hence Bi-phonic undoubtedly refers to a 2 speaker set up. And as you can see, the dude was undoubtedly jammin' to In-A-Gada-Davida!
Rob

 

Okay, here's what the Olds literature says:
'66 was the only year the U84 "reverbatone" was an option. And only on the big cars. U80 was available on all. U80 was available on the F-85 series *except* convertibles.
'67 was the same, except the AM-FM Stereo supplanted the reverbatone.

CW, I wonder if "our" F-85 reverb units could be a dealer installation? I'll check.

 

Makes me want to go spin some vinyl-- The Who's Quadrophenia, anyone? For those in a more, ah, mellow, mood, how about the quad version of Pink Floyd's classic Dark Side of the Moon? I'm sure that's down in the basement somewhere as well. It won't be the same without the 4 channel amp though.

 

When you are in your house the stereo is left and right channel...when you are in your Olds and there is only a front and a rear speaker then it is front to back stereo...you don't have a choice... on the reverb thing those springs help add time delay to give the echo...the radio output goes back to the reverb and then returns to the switch and then back to the rear speaker on the blue wire and the fader adjusts how much delay you get...

 

This is why you have to drive with your head turned towards the side windows - to get the full stereo effect!

I remember an old sony car stereo ad from years ago, showing a guy driving while sitting sideways... It claimed "sony reinvented the car stereo so automakers didn't have to reinvent the car..."
I do not believe that they were the first to use L&R speakers but the ad itself was humorous.

 

My music comes out of the thing sitting under the hood in full song.


As long as the subject is electronical, riddle me this.
If you put a cassette to 8-track adapter into an 8-track with a cassette MP3 adapter in it that in turn is plugged into an Ipod or the like will it work????? Sort of the long way around the block.

 

would not look for all that stuff myself just to find it won't work. I think it would be easier to put in an underdash unit and tap into existing speaker wires.