HonestDave

I'm using an older rebuilt carb left over from one of my Pontiac projects. It was on a 350. Been trying to get the choke to work, but it only seems to open part way. I've been told they either work, or don't but I'm thinking there's more to it than that.
For now it's disconnected. Wondering if I can use the old coil wires that are dangling beside it. I always thought these started at 12 volts when cranking, and then kicked down to about 8 volts when running. This one measures 12 volts when the ignition is turned on, and 14 volts when car is running.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

stan 65 cutlass

hey dave, you need to loosen the screws and rotate the blak cap till the choke is open

oldcutlass

As stated above, I'll add adjust with the engine warmed completely.

HonestDave

I was doing that. I've had a number of these over the years and they usually work. This one just doesn't seem to have enough travel when it's warmed up, so I have to set it too far open when it's cold.
Also, it's running incredibly rich. Didn't see black smoke, but got my eyes running I'll tell you !!
Guess I gots to find one of those special "D" shaped tools for adjusting the mixture. Damn newfangled carbs, anyway.
Sure wish I had a correct Olds carb with the heat tube choke system and everything.

oldcutlass

In most cases you can get away with no choke. My 330 started in 30 degree winter temps with me feathering the throttle. I just let it warm up a bit before driving.

stan 65 cutlass

same here, my choke is wired open

HonestDave

Is there any reason you can think of that I shouldn't use the old coil wires for power to the choke?

nj67

I am no expert by no means but I remember reading somewhere to not use the the wire running to coil or the positive terminal on the coil or the choke will not fully open.

jag1886

Really? Run a switched 12V wire from the fuse box to run that choke, the choke spring can get weak with age and make the choke not fucntion properly. You could also have something in the linkage hanging up a little. Get out the flash light and the carb cleaner and look close.

HonestDave

I also read somewhere that once running, the coil was only supposed to get about 8 volts. That would explain the chokes not fully opening. Not sure why my meter is reading 14 volts at the coil wire. Maybe has something to do with bypassing the firewall regulator and going with the built-in style.

oldcutlass

If it's the resistance wire it will not get full voltage. The 14v tells me it may have been changed.

HonestDave

I took the whole harness, fuse panel and all, from a 65 f-85 Deluxe. Transfered over every wire, and nothing was cut, so that's why I'm thinking maybe the regulator by-pass is causing the higher voltage.
Anyway, I only have two terminals on the fuse panel, and one is holding my distributor wire for the HEI. It and the spare both run through the 20 amp fuse for the power windows (they're manual). Not sure how much the distributor draws. Might be too much if I add the choke onto it.

jag1886

You'd get a better 12V source from the power supply to the old switch pitch switch in this photo.

HonestDave

The old tranny is gone. The wire on the terminal is live. It may just be on the wrong pin. The T-400 in it now had no wires going to it, so I assume it has no funtioning electric kickdown. I put this assembly on the firewall because the old one was different and wouldn't hook up to a gas pedal.

MDchanic

The resistance wire will always read about 12V with no load on it.

Put a load on it and you will see that it will drop down to about 8.

You need to follow Joe Padovano's excellent thread on how to connect your electric choke.

- Eric

HonestDave

I'll try to find it before my next car-working day, which is Thursday.

oldstata

I tried this once it actually caused shifting issues in my switch pitch not sure if it will affect the th400.

Dave on my eddlebrock carb, I am using the old coil wire resistance wire for my choke I know it's not correct but it works fine for me.

From my understanding there is a oil pressure sensor with three prongs on it to wire the choke into it maybe I'm misunderstanding the info I read

RandyS

Huh? That wire is going to drop the voltage whether there is a load or not. It is not variable resistance wire..........

MDchanic

Nope. Go try it yourself.

Check the voltage, then alligator-clip the wire to the BAT terminal of the HEI in place of the wire that's there now, start the car, and check it again.

- Eric

nsnarsk65cutlass

No 8v is not enough,you need full 12v or charging system voltage for that choke to work properly.

HonestDave

Do you think a wire for the choke plus the feed to the HEI would be enough to blow the 20 amp fuse on my panel? I'm uncertain how much draw these things have.

oldstata

Dave cut and paste

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31892

Here is what I was thinking of guess every one else was too

HonestDave

I'll keep that in mind, Justin. Now that I see it, I've read it before. Sounds reasonable.

jag1886

If you got rid of the original kick down for the switch pitch then that extra wire is a switched 12V source, just put a test light on it and turn on the key that will tell you, your T400 has to have a separate switch put on it to get passing gear to work.
I may be **** but I have never been a fan of scabbing one electrical component off another and beside it looks bad.

oldstata

Dave bought the car with the wrong linkage (look at the pic of that odd linkage) he installed the correct fire wall linkage from a parts car.
Also from my understanding all Dave needs to do, is run the wire off that switch (the appropriate terminal of course) to his kick down switch on the trans to get his passing gear to operate
No other switch needed

HonestDave

Excellent idea guys !! I've been so wrapped up in a million things I didn't even think of that. I can use the wire from the kickdown for something.

HonestDave

Interesting update. My car was turning over and would start when I released the key to the run position. Kind of like a backwards Chrysler ballast resister problem from decades past. It occured to me, maybe the fuse panel drops it's power when cranking. Hadn't thought of that before. Called my electrical guy and sure enough the power drops and the car wouldn't fire until I stopped cranking. He said he had one like that a while back where the HEI was wired to the wiper power.
He suggested connecting it to the old unused coil wires. I did, and it fires up beautifully. He says the lower voltage from the coil wire is no problem for the HEI.
It just never ends...

oldstata

Dave I think you will run into issues using the old resistance coil wire hei needs 12 v the old coil was like 8 volts ? You can run a new wire and just change it on the back of the fuse box it's just a spade connector.

MDchanic

This is a classic problem from GM cars of the mid-sixties.
The ignition switch doesn't power the IGN circuit in the START position, but instead relies on the starter solenoid to supply power through the R terminal to the coil while cranking.

It sounds kind of like you didn't have the yellow wire from the solenoid connected to your HEI.
That will do it.



Good. At least you've solved that problem.



Not true.

SOME people have no problem connecting their HEIs to the resistor wire, but MANY people experience significant starting and running problems after a while with this setup.

The HEI needs to be connected to a 12ga 12v hot wire, just like it was from the factory.
Once you've got that done (along with a separate wire from the R terminal), you'll be all set.

- Eric

HonestDave

Perhaps I'll ad a 12 volt wire back on from the spare PW slot.
Tomorrow I've got to figure out why there's no ground on the left tail light housing. Think I'll pull it apart and see what's happening (or not happening)
All my other park lights and turn signals are now working. Oh ya, no dash signals. Maybe I left a plug off the column or something simple.
Until tomorrow, my friends...

oldstata

The 65's tend to have a ground issue on the rear lights. I soldered a ground wire to the socket and grounded it to the trunk latch bolt.

HonestDave

I can sort of remember changing one tail light, and wondering why there was a wire attached to it's bolt and going to the body. I suppose it was the same fix. Think I'll disassemble and run the wire wheel around the edge and the bracket edge or wherever it meets, and try to get continuity.
I know there's ground on the trunk lip, so the whole tail pan should have ground, in theory !

HonestDave

Had some fun today with the left tail light. Disassembled it and discovered it gets it's ground from sharp pointy things in the bracket that bolts it in place. They are in the lower bracket corners and dig into the trunk pan. Also the metal has to be clean under the washers for the tail light to bracket bolts, as they also have pointy things on them. Cleaned it all up with wire wheel, brush, etc. and voila, ground back on the left tail light. Nice and bright bulb, too.

oldcutlass

There is an ign terminal on your fuse panel. Run a 12ga wire from there to your old coil wires. Remove the stiff tan one and cap it as that is your resistance wire, the other wire comes from the starter to power the coil during start.

HonestDave

My fuse panel is pretty basic. It's from a 65 Olds f-85 Deluxe. The only spare terminals I find are fed by the power window fuse, and are spare because I have manual windows. Both those spare teminals drop their load while cranking.
When I first got the 442, it didn't have a fuse panel at all. It was just like an explosion in a spaghetti factory. Splice upon splice upon splice, changing colors many times. I just reefed it all out and started from scratch, thus some of my issues.

oldcutlass

Either of those will work in conjunction with the original wire that fed the coil from the starter.

HonestDave

Oh yeah....I forgot, I've solved that "not starting while cranking" problem with the old coil wires.
I think I need a holliday.
Maybe I'll solder a wire to the incoming end of the fuse, so if it goes I don't lose 12v power to the distributor.

MDchanic

GM didn't fuse the points system, and didn't fuse the HEI.
Presumably this is because a fuse malfunction in the ignition system at the wrong time could cause you a major problem, whereas in the unlikely event that the ignition was drawing too much current, the engine would probably run badly for a while before completely giving up.

My personal recommendation for HEI power is the heavy pink wire from the ignition switch. Solder your connections well, and you should be in great shape.

Also, be sure that the R terminal of the solenoid is connected to the HEI BAT terminal as well.

- Eric