before tearing it apart which means wires, cap, rotor, plugs and completely redoing the gas tank and gas lines, engine would run to warm-up start to sputter and die, put rebuilt carb on it also. i would like to get the timing real close but it is obvious a timing light can't be used because now it will not run long enough to geter done. here is what i have done, set my timing mark on 5 degrees pulled all plugs turn motor over until rotor is on number one and piston at top dead center put back together and still nothing. my first thought was fuel pump but even using either it wont go. now she tries but it is very short lived, i also checked for timing chain slop and came up with about 5 to 7 degrees and do not remember the tolerance for that. tomorrow i will take fuel line off and check volume but i am not sure how many seconds to crank it and the proper volume needed for that amount of seconds, help--
other than that she has 87 thousand miles feels really tight only one lifter makes a little noise and shifting linkage is also very distinct. after reading some other post on 72 that wont start, id just like to say don't get mad take a break and go back. ok will check back tomorrow. thanks

 

The post says "set my timing mark on 5 degrees pulled all plugs turn motor over until rotor is on number one and piston at top dead center." Hopefully this is the order it was performed and could be an easy fix.

Be certain that it is cylinder number one, I do not know which side is number one on a 394, you would know better than me on that. Number one not only must be near TDC but it must be TDC on the compression stroke not the exhaust stroke. It will still line up on the balancer but be 180 degrees out on the camshaft.

Place number one at TDC on the compression stroke first and then line up the timing marks without cranking the engine over, to the initial base timing specification. The wire that the rotor now points at with the cap installed is where number one goes. Confirm the direction of the distributor rotation in order that it will match the direction that the wires are installed. Are you using the firing order stamped on the intake manifold?

Good luck and please let us know what you find.

 

I used to run into this same problem, when a friend would ask me to help them try to get the engine started, after they had done "service" on it. I found a quick way to check their work, by pouring some gasoline down the carburetor throat, and putting the air cleaner back on. It is important to put the air cleaner back on, because if they messed up the timing, then the engine would backfire through the valve, a a large flame would come flying out the carburetor. The air cleaner prevents this from happening. If it backfires, then you need to check the location of the number one plug in relationship to the rotor, and also make sure that the # 1 cylinder piston was at top dead center. I have seen plug wires installed back wards, because of engine rotation being counter clockwise, when the person thought it was clockwise, cause these type of problems. Work slowly, and carefully work through each part of the ignition system. Most often, the problems start when people change plugs, wires, cap & rotor, etc., and they don't know exactly where they went wrong. Patience and a factory shop manual are your friends...

 

Engines need 3 things to run, air, fuel and spark at the proper time. Rotate the engine until your at TDC on #1 like you did. Where ever the rotor is pointing to on the cap is where the number 1 spark plug wire goes. Then wire it from there going CCW around the cap. Like was stated above if it backfires through the carb then you have your dist in 180deg out. You can either pull the dist and rotate the rotor 180deg and reinstall or rewire the cap.

Good luck.

 

[QUOTE=bstott;606386]...but it is obvious a timing light can't be used because now it will not run long enough to geter done. /QUOTE]

That is not "obvious". The timing light works just fine even when you are cranking the engine over with the starter. It just requires two people, one on the key and one on the timing light.

 

ok, to start with i have not gotten back to the garage yet but i am saving all info. can't wait to have the wife turn it over while i put the timing light on it!! i have all my wires marked with tape and working from gm book on firing order i am going to go through all the suggestions slowly to see what happens. i am also concerned with point gap? it gives degrees of twenty eight to thirty but not a gap i can start out with, i have to start all over because of messing with all my adjustments to begin with and will keep you all posted on that, sometimes it takes awhile before i actually get back to work on it, i get busy with other stuff and i'm sure i'm not the only one with that issue. ok i'm going to reread your posts and get back to it.
bruce

 

Point gap should be .016 for 30 deg dwell. Remember dwell effects timing, timing does not effect dwell. So do your points first.

 

Along the lines of Joe's comment, just put the dwell meter on while cranking to set the dwell angle correctly, then set the timing with the timing light.

That being said, nobody has yet asked: Do you have a good spark? Do you have fuel in your carburetor? When you pump the accelerator, can you see streams of fuel from the accelerator pump nozzles?

- Eric

 

yesterday after reading some of the post the wife and i went out to turn the motor over, i got all hooked up with spark checker on number one AND no spark but i know i did have. did resistance check and meter ran off the chart to the right, should be to the left, i think it has been the points all this time but will let you know latter on today, have a great day
bruce.

 

You're on the right track...

- Eric

 

Set your gap on the high spot of the distributor cam lobe and try starting again.

 

hey thanks for the info. the first thing i did was to get number one top dead center,(did not really have to) then took of cap and rotor and proceeded to adjust the gap of sixteen thousands, the points would not get to that gap so loosened it all up and reset points on plate and got the same thing soooo, must have the wrong points from napa, however i still should have spark, and then i checked my spark checker and low and behold the bulb was burned out!!! so went right to coil this morning and i get nothing, so going back to napa soon as he gets back from lunch. cleaned old points and installed them to proper gap, having that gap was very helpful. will keep on keeping on, till latter
bruce.
p.s. still smiling

 

no spark!!!! thats what got me thinking.
bruce

 

Run a jumper wire from the battery + to coil + and see if you get spark. That eliminates all things except coil and distributor.

 

put new coil in yesterday and---------------- no spark!! but i like the idea of hot wiring it direct to the battery, will try that this morning. last night got into gm. book on electrical to also do some kind of check on the ignition switch but have not found one yet, also going to recheck both condensers. when i first took the coil off i marked it so i would get it back the way i took it out and when i was about to put the new one in i looked at it again and discovered i put it back in wrong!! just thinking i may have maybe ruined something by doing that?
bruce.
p.s. has anybody run across the point problem i had,( unable to adjust to 30 degrees ? )

 

Your point problem is probably not having the points in the center of it's adjustment range or not placing them in the proper position on installation. Some of the points adjustment screws do not match the old tools also. Make sure your black wire and condenser wire are secure on the points in distributor. Make sure the power to the coil is connected to coil+ and the distributor is connected to coil-. There is also a bypass wire that comes from the starter to provide full battery voltage to the coil during cranking.

I doubt you damaged anything when you installed the condenser on the wrong post of the coil. In the remote chance you did, just buy another one and install it, they are inexpensive.

 

Okay, this is getting tiresome.

As far as I can tell, you're beginning to replace parts, but haven't actually done any troubleshooting.

First, do this.
Check your supply voltage.
Check your coil.
Check your points.
Check your point gap or dwell angle.
Check your timing.

Report back to us on your findings.

There is an excellent and very clear troubleshooting procedure for points ignitions in an old Motor manual I've got and I'm going to type the darned thing in here one of these days, because this keeps coming up again and again.

- Eric

 

"Are you using the firing order stamped on the intake manifold?"

Look for this information CAST INTO the manifold. It will be a raised feature with a sandy texture. Large characters. Cylinder numbers should be similar.

One can discern the rotation of any distributor with a vacuum advance by following the vacuum actuator straight into the distributor, then around the shaft - that's the way the distributor rotates. I am not familiar with the pre-65 Olds [exc. '64 330].

 

Same Delco mechanism as the later cars.

What you're picturing is what he's got.

I'm not sure, but I think the resistor is the wire this year, too.

- Eric

 

This may or may not be important. An Olds distributor spins counter-clockwise; a Chebby spins clockwise. If you're used to working on the latter you could get tripped up here...

 

eric, my exact thoughts yesterday! started over, put meter on shows power, took cap off and got spark at points, dumped my garbage can over got the old rotor,cleaned it, put it on set the points to 16 thousands replaced cap and started the motor, set dwell at 30 degrees runs at very high idle will work on the timing when i get the idles squared away. thanks again, i was starting to get as frustrated as the rest of youall.
bruce

 

Ah HA.

So, rotor bad out if the box?

I hate it when that happens.

That's why I never assume that just because parts are "new" that means they're "good."

Good work!

- Eric

 

I would pop the new rotor back on there for a try again and see if it was the rotor. Just curious.

 

yes i was thinking that same thing yesterday but i have to get the idle high and lo set but am still having problem with fuel to carb problems that i have to figure out. right now im going to do some fencing to keep these horses in. latter
bruce

 

The high idle may be the choke, it should drop down as the engine reaches operating temp.

 

I've never saw a rotor bad out of the box, but then again, when you consider where parts come from today. My first thought when you said it was running to warm up, then quit, was the coil. A coil once it gets hot will break down. And after running a car for awhile, if you can't touch the coil because it is too hot, then it's going bad. Condensers don't go bad that often. I'm not saying they won't go bad, but when the car won't start it's always the one of three things like stated above Fuel, spark, air. As long as you have all three, then it is something else causing the no start problem. Now that you have it running, high idle will be in your timing and your carburetor. If you aren't real familiar with carbs, but have messed with it to get it running, start back at square one with it. Screw both jets in, then mark the screw with a Flair pen or something. Back each one out exactly the same...1 1/2 - 2 turns. That will be your starting point on the carb, then you can start on your timing and dwell. Also with your timing, unhook your vacuum advance when adjusting it, and plug the line. A vacuum leak can also affect things. I'm not familiar with Olds engines, but what I told you is the basics for almost all older engines whether Chevy, Ford, Pontiac, whatever.

As far as your rotor, I'm also curious if you put it back on if the engine won't start but does with the old rotor.

 

first thanks for the info, at last post still did not have engine running, worked on suggestions fuel,spark,air, went through these, all good, redid timing manually over and over, nothing, yesterday started working on test of distributor voltage and point resistance test. so next i went to the house to get the better half to turn engine over while i read my meter's. now i changed the condenser, took screw out that holds vacuum advance in and cleaned it and put it back in, put rotor on then cap hooked up my test leads and told wife ok do it, well as soon as the key was turned on she started right up,I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT, it was like a miracle wow. so set dwell again and the timing and idle's and runs good because had to time it by ear.

-- on the timing when i tried to time it to specks vacuum advance hits the intake and it runs like crap, i assume it is off a couple of teeth?
thanks
bruce
p.s. in oct i said it started and it did but never again after that!! just to let ya know.