mike623

Hi, new to the site. I was just wondering if someone here could answer my question for me. I have a 1970 Cutlass Supreme, I took the clock out yesterday because it is not working. It is the Borg clock. I was wondering if there was supposed to be a power wire connected to the back of the clock somewhere?

jensenracing77

should have one wire going to the back of the clock and one to each light that are hooked together by one plug. the clock is grounded through its case. there is a terminal that is held on by a nut. the power wire goes there, if it is still there.

100_3610.jpg?t=1268692838

mike623

When I took it out there was no wire going to the nut in the middle. It had the lights plugged in, which work. Do I need to add a wire from the nut to the plug for the lights?

joe_padavano

It is common for the stock clock to fail. If applying power doesn't get it to work, consider a quartz conversion.

Lady72nRob71

There should be a thick orange wire (with a black plug) behind the clock that attaches to that terminal on the clock. Search around to see if it is there or if a previous owner cut it and used it for something else like a radio.

mike623

I will check that out. If it ends up being that the clock needs repair does anyone know where I could order parts? Or what I could check. I would like to tinker with myself. Does anyone have a manual that could be email to me? Thanks for all the post, i really appreciate it.

jensenracing77

i have taken them apart and sanded the contacts and got them to work. you should use a fine oil on the gears while it is apart. i don't know the proper oil and i know that WD-40 is not right but i have used it on one and it has ben going for almost a year now.

Lady72nRob71

If that is a Borg Warner, OPG sells a quartz conversion kit for 70 bucks.

mike623

Its a Borg Warner. Is it better to switch to quarts? What goes bad on the original clock?

Lady72nRob71

Time to take it apart and check it out. Either the points are burned or the mechanism is gummed up with old grease or the gears are stripped.
Let us know what you find inside!

Bluevista

X2, mine is defunct too, need a guinea pig.
I set it to seven minutes to one because the car is a '71, tough to do that with a '70?
Seven minutes to nothing??

Lady72nRob71

The original clock from Lady had an open wind coil winding. I could see the broke / burned open wire. With enough patience i could have repaired it, but the rally pac was the route I wanted to take...

mike623

I have looked it over and cant seem to find anything that looks burned, broke, or any gunk in there.

jaunty75

In looking back through all the posts, you haven't actually said that you've tried applying power. Have you? If so, I presume it did nothing?


I "fixed" the clock on my '75 Delta 88 by taking the mechanism out behind the face and putting in one of those clock movements you can buy now at any craft store that takes 1 AA battery and that you see behind almost any wall clock nowadays. The clock looked exactly the same, kept great time, and I had to take it apart only about once a year to replace the battery. Yes, that was a bit of a pain, but I got good at popping the clock out and back in quickly.

mike623

Sorry, yes I have tried applying power.

Lady72nRob71

Neat trick!
You should do a "how to" thread on that one. A small DC-DC converter could even be installed to convert the 12V to 1.5V. I design those things at work - TI sells all all varieties.
Some of those little clocks even have the electronic "Westminister" chimes in it. PERFECT for a Delta - never even heard of those in luxurious Cadillacs.
Hmmmm.... Depending on the car, even one that has a coo-koo sound would be cool...

jaunty75

Cool. I would have guessed you did. You might look into changing the internals, anyway, though, as even when these clocks were new they were notorious for not keeping the greatest time.

jaunty75

I would, except I did this 15 years ago, I don't have the car any more, and I didn't take any photos at the time. (Heck, at that time the internet barely existed compared to what it is today, and the concept of "posting" what you've done for others to see just didn't exist.)

I also need to make one very important clarification. I didn't have a good way of reusing the original clock hands as they couldn't be easily removed from the old clock nor attached to the new mechanism. So I bought some very generic-looking clock hands that looked somewhat like the original ones and that would probably go unnoticed as not being original except to someone who really knew what these clocks looked like. But I did not maintain full stock appearance. Anyone wanting a completely original look would want to find a way to use the old hands.

Bluevista

My '55 Furd had a wind-up clock, worked fine when you wound it, it was round too, hmmmm.
A cuckoo clock would need to have the weights hanging down by your legs.
A pendulum swinging there would be a little bit in the way too.
The bird popping out would be worth it though, great for picking up chicks.
I have an old family heirloom wall clock that was my great-great grandfather's that has a pendulum and chimes, works good when you wind it and the bonger...hmmmm.
I could hang it by the pool table in the Vista's rear basement area.

Aceshigh

Where can I find this "OPG Quartz conversion kit" ??
I just tried googling for it and came up empty handed.

jaunty75

Go to www.opgi.com and do search under "quartz", then select your vehicle when it asks.

I did a search for a '71 Cutlass and came up with two hits, but they're the same thing. Also, the kit is not $70 but $102.

Here's the result page:

http://www.opgi.com/searchpart.asp?K...atalog=Cutlass


I find that price a bit eye-popping myself, especially when I can go to Walmart and buy one of those clock movements I talked about above and used on my '75 for maybe $10. These movements are also quartz and will keep time just fine. You may have to do a bit more work to get it to fit in your application and make it look good, and then there is the issue of having to periodically replace the battery. (But you might be able to run some wires from the battery holder to a place more easy to get at, like the glove box, and put the battery in there.) As I said, a bit more work is required, but if I were thinking about converting my clock, I would at least look into the cheaper alternative if there is the possibility of doing the conversion for one-tenth the cost.

Lady72nRob71

YOW!
Their 2007 catalog had them for 65.95!
Never thought they would jump that high so soon, but I guess they followed the pringles chip price hikes...

I would have barely spent 65, and never 102+.
The hobby shop method and some creativity would be a good alternative.

OR, here is a place I have hear about before:
http://www.clockwks.com/
They service and rebuild car clocks.

jaunty75

But they charge from $70 to $210, according to their website, to put a quartz movement in your clock, making buying the quartz conversion kit from OPG more attractive if it turns out that Clock Works's quote for repairing your particular clock is more than $102.

It's interesting that they point out that having an incorrect clock movement can cost you in car show judging. I've been involved with judging at car shows, and I've never seen this taken into consideration. If your clock doesn't have a second hand, I don't know how you could tell by just looking at the clock, anyway. A quartz clock's second will have a start-stop-start movement as it goes around the dial, while an old analog clock second hand will move smoothly. But you don't see the minute or hour hands move, so, unless the clock has a second hand, how would you know?

Of course, this isn't AACA judging I'm talking about, anyway!

Lady72nRob71

But they service original movements also, "starting" at 40 bucks.
http://www.clockwks.com/Servicex.html
Not sure what percentage would fit into that catagory, but it would depend on its condition. Cleaning and points filing maybe. Stripped gears or burned coils I'm sure are extra, but I do not know how much. Customer would have to get a quote from them.

I would do the conversion myself with the OPG part, to save the shipping also. My old clock will RIP in the garage...

To help cheat the system, a second hand could always be removed...

jaunty75

I missed that! That's not a bad price, but you end up with the original mechanical movement. I'm guessing though, that if it can be fixed at all, it will be fixed well enough to be serviceable, even if it doesn't keep the greatest time. After all, how many people actually used their in-dash clock, back in the day, to actually keep track of the time?

I just have relatively strong memories as a kid of my grandfather and my father complaining about the worthlessness of the clocks in their cars as they never kept the time very well for very long.

Aceshigh

Understatement right there....lol That company smokes crack to be asking prices like that.

Thanks for the information though. Much appreciated.
I'm not blowing $102 for a kit that I still have to install for a rinky dink token clock.

I could care less if it doesn't work for that kind of pricing.
Everyone's getting on the Barrett Jackson bandwagon thinking they have gold in their hands.

Aceshigh

In case anyone is interested, there's a 1970 Olds Clock with a Quartz Conversion done on Ebay right now with 22 hours left for $60 is the current bidding.

I was keeping it to myself, but now that I've seen the kit costs, I'm sure the seller will be shill bidding his own auction to go well over a few hundred. $$$

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/70-71...Q5fAccessories

Lady72nRob71

Unfortunately, thats the price for owning a fully functional (and original) classic car I guess...

The price of a repro rally pac plus senders and wiring is about 500 bucks, which gives you 5 instuments, working out to 100 per instrument. So maybe that is how they think a clock is worth 100...
It stinks, but if you have the $$$ to shill out, why not...
I do like jaunty's clock repair method though.

Chumley

Rob, do you have the Rally Pack in your car, and if so what additional wiring is required (I assume tach harness as well as dash harness for gauges?) A friend has a '70 442 with a new repro Rally Pack, and I'm going to help him install a new harness. The old one is fried somewhere anyway. Do we just need a "dash harness with gauges" setup? Also the car has HEI, probably another issue to work around as far as the tach part goes.(new engine harness as well?) Tell me what you know, thanks, Chumley

Lady72nRob71

Chum,

Yep, I have the repro set.
Some useful threads are here:

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ly-gauges.html

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ch-wiring.html

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...t-working.html

You will need to make two 9" wires for the tach power and light.
One end will need spade male and female and the other ends with rings. One long wire for from the tach to the coil negative with a 3A fuse in a holder. Both ends with ring teminals.
With HEI, I think there is a "tach" terminal but not sure how it will work with the rally pac. Find out for sure before proceding.

Buying a whole dash harness is not recommended just for the rally pac. If you are replacing it anyway, get the harness for with the rally pac.
If keeping the regular harness, the gauge cluster will need the pins rearranged as in that last thread link above...