My car won't start. When I tried, the starter cranks for just a grunt- one little sound like it's trying to turn, then nothing. All the lights went out on the dash and inside the car, the headlights won't come on, everything electrical appears to go dead. I put the battery on the charger, and within just a few hours it showed fully charged, so I had it tested at the parts store and it's good- really strong. I put it back in the car- no change. When I first hook up the battery my lights work, pretty much everything as far as I can tell is working electrically, until I turn the key to "start". Then the starter grunts, and everything goes dead. I took apart the cables at the junction block and polished everything pretty well, and when I put it back together I observe the junction block is cracked at the base in 3 pieces. It looks to me like it's barely holding together, and the horn relay terminals are badly corroded too. At the time, I didn't realize it's also the horn relay, and I didn't think to check the horn. It just seems strange that the junction block would create a problem like this. Anyone have a thought, or experience with this? I figure I have to replace the part anyway, but I won't be surprised if it doesn't fix the problem, and I end up taking out the starter next.

 

I don't recall how the battery cable ran to the starter on my 64 98. If there's a part that's damaged that could definitely contribute to the problem. You can always remove the starter and have it bench tested at your local auto parts store. Post a pic if you can.

 

The positive battery cable and the hot starter cable, along with a red wire to the ignition starter switch all go on the post to draw 12V. Obviously, turning the key closes the circuit to the solenoid, and that's when the action occurs. The starter makes just the slightest attempt to turn over, then every goes dead, like it shorted out or popped a fuse- except it comes back if I disconnect the battery and try again.


This is the relay/junction block. It is clearly damaged, in pieces really


The horn relay is part of the device, also drawing 12 V from the junction post.

I guess it could be causing a short in the horn relay circuit, and it's really not a question of whether it needs to be replaced. It's in 3 pieces, for goodness sake! I guess I just have to replace it, and see if that does the trick.

 

Outside of being cracked and a future fire hazard, I doubt the horn relay is your issue. Is the battery holding a full charge at 12.6v? Are the battery cables and terminals clean?

 

All good suggestions, thank you. I checked the battery cables and connection to ground, and I had the battery load tested at the auto parts store. I have a remote starter switch I put together that I can use to start the car while I'm under the hood. I used it when I checked the compression so I didn't have to keep climbing out from behind the wheel. I could hook that up to rule out the ignition switch as the source of my trouble, but like some mentioned, it feels like a starter issue, or even just a bad ground, but I checked the ground- short of taking it off the block and reconnecting it. Thinking about it- it does sound like something a bad ground would cause...

 

One last round of tests but the results are the same. I re-checked all the cables and grounds, I made sure the JB was taped up so it can't short out on the fender, tightened everything down. I tested voltage at the battery and at the JB 12.55V on my little meter. It's very cold out, and the engine hasn't been started in over a month. I'm going to have to pull the starter. It's not so hard to do, and then I can bench test it, or have it rebuilt. I've taken the starter apart before and cleaned it up, but I wouldn't call it a rebuild because I didn't test the windings or replace any parts. Are there guides, or parts available for rebuilding a starter? Once I take it out, I'd like to walk through the process. I remember when I could get these rebuilt for around $50- and there was an armature shop in the area that would rebuild starters, alternators, all sorts of electric motors... those days are gone!

Lucky for me, I have the repair manual, and the process for testing and rebuilding the starter is in there starting on page 13-26.

 

If the lights go out, chances are it's a bad connection somewhere in the power feed or ground side. Make sure BOTH battery cables are clean at both ends. Also, did you try jumping the solenoid directly to power? On the early cars there are two connectors near the horn relay. One of those wires is purple. Disconnect the connector with the purple wire and jump the end that runs down to the starter to the batt terminal on the horn relay. The starter should crank.

 

I agree with Joe. I would be giving the battery terminals and cables a good hard look.

 

The Horn Relay is a separate device mounted onto the Junction Block. Based on evaluation of your image (from my cozy armchair location) your Junction Block is completely destroyed & requires replacement ASAP before you proceed much further. Through the years the term "Horn Relay" has become somewhat of a misnomer. In olden days, you could order a new Horn Relay and replace the Horn Relay separately from the Junction Block (sometimes referred to as the PTO = Power Take Off). The Junction Block was & remains nothing more than a convenient location to mount the Horn Relay. The sole purpose of the Junction Block is to provide a single location point from which to distribute Power. So today, when someone refers to the Horn Relay, they often don't realize Horn Relay is nothing more than a convenient location mounted to the Junction Block. The Horn Relay is likely not your issue; however, your Junction Block could very likely be your issue. With three significant breaks/cracks/fractures voltage can seep anywhere - to the chassis (ground fault), through the horn relay via corrosion, etc. Yours is destroyed. Replace it. Several vendors produce/manufacture replacement Horn Relay/Junction Blocks.




New Horn Relay/Junction Block

New Horn Relay/Junction Block

 

NOTE: To provide more information regarding the ground (-) negative side of the Horn Relay/Junction Block. The Junction Block is NOT grounded to the chassis - for obvious reasons - it's purpose is to provide power (+) to all vehicle components. The Horn Relay is NOT grounded to the chassis/frame etc at the Junction Block location. The horn button on the steering wheel completes the circuit by supplying the ground.

 

The best advice I get on this forum often starts with "I agree with Joe"...
Guess which cables were on the car, and tell me which pair you'd rather have.


From my experience, the problem with these bolt on battery clamps is that they work fine, until they don't.

I replaced the bolt on clamps with new fully assembled battery cables and the car cranks over strong.
So that's proof- you have to use red cables on your positive terminal, or the car just won't start.

 

"Color" of the cable has absolutely nothing to do with which cable is connected to which terminal. You could have easily connected them with opposite colors - black to positive, red to negative.

 

Clearly that junction block is a hazard and needs to be replaced before doing much of anything else. And yes, they're available from many suppliers, for around $75. Excellent advice, Norm, thank you.

 

I should have made that last post on "Humor de jour"... it's a joke. I can't wait to see some AI bot pick it up and repeat as solid advice.

 

I "suspected" you may have made an attempt at humor.

 

I'm sure I've asked this before, but just how far "west of Worcester" are you? I grew up in Shrewsbury. I was back last summer for the first time in a long time. I'll be back again later this year as my 50th high school reunion is this year.

 

I'm in Warren, just north of Brimfield. And I'm only a couple years shy of my 50th high school class reunion as well!

Warren is the only town in Worcester county with a 413 area code.