Blaine B.

Hello. My Grandmother has a 1980 Delta 88 Royale Brougham with 61,000 original miles. It has the 5.0 liter 307 motor in it (unfortunately not the 350!) and she was the original owner, as she and her husband purchased it new in 1980. It was a garage kept car for the entire ownership of the vehicle, and is in extremely good condition.

I am giving my Grandmother a 2003 Toyota Camry to replace the old car, hoping to sell it to someone who might restore it a bit and keep it in tip top shape. A 1980 really isn't the right car for an 86 year old woman, afterall.

There is one problem though. Within the past few months, the speedometer stopped working. While it WAS working, there was a squeaking noise coming from behind the dashboard, and then all of a sudden, one day, the speedometer needle dropped down and stopped reading. The odometer also stopped working, obviously, because the speedometer and odometer are connected.

You can still hear a noise behind the dashboard, so I believe the speedometer cable has broken somewhere behind the gauge cluster, or perhaps become unhooked or something. I do not have ANY experience with mechanical speedometers, so I am hoping on some tips and pointers from people who have dealt with it before.

I would like to get the speedometer and odometer working again, because I do not think that anyone would honestly believe the mileage on the car is so low (61,000 miles) while the speedometer is not working. They might be thinking that it was disconnected for 15 years!

Anyway, I looked online and speedometer cables for this car seem to be easily available. The problem is, I am worried about any of the dash components breaking since they may be brittle due to the age. I am not seeing any screws or anything to remove the woodgrain dash bezel to get to the gauge cluster itself.

It would be nice if the speedometer cable just became unhooked behind the gauge cluster, but if not, I could just install a new one from the transmission output to the gauge cluster. But also, I am hoping that it isn't something more serious that broke on the gauge cluster itself. That would definitely be harder to find.

So any guidance and assistance in helping me to take the dash apart would be appreciated!

I have experience working on cars, but honestly nothing this old, so this is a bit different to me. Thank you.

Rickman48

80's is not old - since you're worried about being able to do it yourself, take it to a mechanic - friendly price should be under $100.

Redog

First off, does the car have the "ralley Pack" gauges?

If it does (Volts on the left side of the column and water and oil on the right) there are 4 bolts holding that in place. They are small, I think less than 1/4 inch, maye 9/32.

If it doesn't have that, or you removed that, there are 2 screws on the underside of the "ledge" above the column (if they are still there) remove them and then remove the headlight **** by turning it till you see the slit and put ta flat head screwdriver in there and gently pry off from there. Then the wood grain dash just pops out, held in by clips under the panel.

Till the wheel down all the way (if equiped) and put car in "1" to remove panel.

Now the plastic over the speedo will have 2 bolts on it, two on top and two on the bottom (one set may be under the plastic, I forget) these are also small bolts, 1/4 inch or smaller. Have a 7mm on hand too as these cars (don't know about 80) are what I call "cross overs" meaning they have both metric and standard bolts. You may have to remove the **** for the trip odometer with a small, very small screwdriver, if equiped. You may not either, the plastic may just slide right over the ****.

Then it's 2 phillips head screws holding the gray/silver over the speedo, then it's 2 bolts below the speedo holding on the black tin framing over the speedo. Then there are bolts holding the speedo in place, after undoing them the speed is somewhat free.

This is as far as I got. My speedo is making said noise too, after I replaced the bulbs behind the dash and got a little too rough pulling the speedo out. Mine still works as of right now, but I would like to know the rest of the steps so I can replace the cable myself as well. There is a clip on the back of the speedo, but I didn't see it on mine

Be careful not to break the spring on the "PRNOD21" I did but I was lucky that I just knocked the spring off and was able to repair it easy. Now is a good time to replace the blubs back there. They are either 168 or 194. They are both listed for the car, but you have to remove the dash panel and see what's there already. I replaced with Silverstar bulbs. Expensive, but so much more visible

Blaine B.

Ah yes, most of the bulbs behind the cluster are burnt out as well. They were replaced by a mechanic about 5 years ago when the heater core went out and started steaming up the windshield. Perhaps they are just making bad contact. I noticed that every bulb socket on this car has some sort of grease in it, but it is dried out. Thanks for the tips, I will be doing this soon.

PS - I don't think it has any rally pack gauges. Except for the speedometer, the rest of the "gauges" are "idiot lights".....that don't tell you anything except if something is seriously wrong!

Redog

OK, they were an option in 80, threw it out there, JIC

ThePackRat

Feel free to post some pics of the car if you have any.

fdwheelman

Cable to cluster is easy... The tab pushes toward the cluster (or rear bumper) and then the whole thing will easily pull out. Take your time, it is frustrating at times.

DeltaDevil88

@Redog pics of the silver star cluster at night?

Redog

Flash kills it, won't come out right or do it justice.

Tried it before

Trust me, worth the effort and money

DeltaDevil88

Take pic w/o flash should come out fine.

fdwheelman

Back when I had mine out, I did a full R&R and upgrade to LED plates. I love it, but don't recommend it if patience aren't your style.

DeltaDevil88

Pics?

Blaine B.

Well I finally got around to take apart the dash and take a look at the problem. The removal of the dash was very simple. Two screws above the cruise control button and rear defrost button for the left panel, and two screws above the radio and cigarette lighter for the right panel. The right panel actually does not need to be removed, but I wanted to see what was behind there anyways. After the screws were removed, it was essential to remove the headlight switch **** (There is a litttle metal tab that must be depressed to allow the headlight switch **** to slide off easily) along with the ***** for the radio, and then the little "adjusters" for "fade" and "balance Don't lose the TINY washers between the jobs and "adjusters!".

These plastic dash panels are really sturdy and the clips are METAL! Now that is a quality part you really do not have to worry about breaking unless you're really a moron! And lastly, there is a small panel beneath the steering column that is clipped into the bigger panel in 4 places. You can see these clips underneath once you unclip the entire dash panel from the rest of the dash.




Next comes the removal of the odometer trip meter ****. There is a TINY screw holding the **** on to the rest of the shaft, it is right in the middle of the ****. Do not lose this tiny screw! Next is the clear plastic panel over the speedometer and gauge cluster. There are 4 1/4" bolts holding the clear plastic panel to the cluster. After that is an aluminum over-lay held it with 2 silver screws at the top.

Then, the speedometer itself is held in with a few more 1/4" bolts. The speedometer can come out independent of the fuel gauge and gear select display. You will notice there is actually a wire from the gear select display to the steering column, as the column rotates it pulls the wire to display the correct gear. In order to fully remove the speedometer, you will have to pull back on the tab to release the speedometer cable housing from the speedometer housing.







I verified that the speedometer mechanism itself was working properly. When I spun the little "wheel", the speedometer needle moved up as if the car was rolling. It is clear the speedometer mechanism is working properly.

After that, I gently pulled on the speedometer cable inside of the speedometer cable housing with some needle nose pliers, and a few feet of the speedometer cable slid right out.



So, it looks like I will order a speedometer cable and install it, replace the bulbs behind the gauge cluster, and this car will all be ready for the market!

I will post again when I install the new cable. I have not ordered it yet.

Blaine B.

I spent 3 and a half hours on this yesterday and got absolutely nowhere. NEVER buy the speedometer cable in the "help" section. This was the only speedometer cable listed at Advance Auto. You cut it to length and then crimp on the square tip with this little tool that you are supposed to hit with a hammer. No matter how much you crimp it, you either damage the tip or it still falls off. I even purchased a second speedometer cable from the "help" section and had the exact same bad outcome, so I know it really wasn't my fault. I returned both and luckily got no-questions asked cash back...

It was actually the lower cable that was damaged. There is a cable that runs from the transmission output to the cruise control module which is mounted under the hood on the driver side wheel well liner. This cruise control module was actually seized. The lower speedometer cable cable really didn't break, but the blue plastic tip that is inserted into the cruise control module broke.

The cruise control in this car hasn't worked for probably about 20 years, and it probably still won't. I'm not concerned about that, I just want the speedometer and odometer to work. I disassembled the cruise control module and used a whole can of brake cleaner to clean it out. It was really gunked up in there. I got it extremely clean and then filled it with grease. It is not seized anymore and will spin, but there is some resistance. I hope it is good enough and that eventually it will loosen up even more with use.

The other upper speedometer cable (the one pictured in my previous post on the floor mat) which runs between the cruise control module and the gauge cluster was perfect. I greased the cable, reinstalled it, and put the dash all back together. The light bulbs behind the cluster were not burnt out either. I gave them a wiggle and they lit up. I removed them, cleaned them up, and reinstalled the bulbs. Who knows, maybe they will go out again. Perhaps the contacts aren't tight and the bulbs loosen up. Either way, the dash panels are easy enough to remove that I will not complain if I need to go back in there again.

I just ordered an ATP lower speedometer cable (with cruise control) from Rock Auto for $14.31 shipped. They show the upper speedometer cable as being 41" and the lower cable as 63" if the car has cruise control. If it does not have cruise control they list it as 80", it must just be one cable in that case since there is no cruise control module to deal with.

All in all......

Blaine B.

I received the new ATP speedometer cable 2 days after ordering it and installed it last night in about 15 minutes. The new cable is a little bit longer than the old cable to allow for routing it around stuff, but really that isn't necessary, I just followed the same route so I could use the factory hold-down tabs under the floors to secure the cable. The new cable does not have a plastic end, it has metal ends on both ends of the cable, and also came with a new sheath and a little packet of grease!

Before installing, I used a screwdriver with a square tip to ensure that the cruise control module was freed up. It now easily spins, so the grease must have worked its way in.

Cruise control module


New ATP speedometer cable


All in all, the speedometer and odometer work once again and there are no strange squeaking noises coming from behind the dash!

Lady72nRob71

Glad you had a successful repair. You found out the reason I do not like universal
parts.
The light bulb socket contacts can be polished up with a little wire brush on a Dremel. The pads on the flex cicuit board can be polished up with a pencil eraser.

I am pretty sure the cruise unit began seized from old solidified grease due to age. Cable could not take the stress anymore. Glad you got it cleaned and lubed to last another gew decades.

Blaine B.

With the exception of the cruise control still not working, it was successful. Reading speed and the odometer is once again racking up the miles.

No more squealing noises from the speedometer, but below 25 MPH or so the speedometer needle will bounce around a bit. My Grandmother says it did that for probably 20 years already. Maybe it is the speedometer head being old, I don't know. Both the upper and lower speedometer cables were easily rotated by hand and operated very smoothly without any sort of friction or resistance.

And also, I never actually unscrewed the bulb sockets from behind the gauge cluster. But I will have to do something, one of the light bulbs quit working again. Just a loose connection, and besides, there are only 6 bulbs behind the cluster. Left turn signal, right turn signal, highbeams indicator, and 3 backlight bulbs. Not that many like newer cars...

EDIT - Oh, and yes, old grease was definitely a contributing factor to the seizing of the cruise control unit. There was plenty of dried grease in there.

Old grease in the tail light bulb sockets has also been a problem thus-far. Just one time I believe, light bulb wasn't working but it actually wasn't burnt out, just not making a good connection because of the dried up grease in the socket!

Greg B.

The bulb sockets in the cluster tend to generate a lot of heat and that seems to cause poor contact with the printed circuit board over time. Aside from rubbing the contact surface on the printed circuit with a pencil eraser, sometimes all it takes to get these to work again is to twist the bulb holder/socket a tiny bit in either direction. The cluster in these cars is not generously illuminated to start with so every bulb needs to be working properly.

junqueboi

Somewhere in the 90's, GM started replacing the separate socket & 161/194/168 bulbs with PC161, PC194, & PC168 assemblies. These are neat because the bulb is permanently soldered to the socket which eliminates one source of corrosion and/or open circuits.

I find old instrument clusters at the scrapyard & load up on these guys -- typically the warning light bulbs themselves have few hours on them since they're usually only on while cranking the car. I usually don't save the cluster illumination bulbs since these have many more hours on them.

Greg B.

The problem with the '77-up RWD B/C body Olds clusters is that the sockets are almost impossible to access without much disassembly of the dash. The factory service manual actually described the procedure for replacing the wedge-base dash bulbs as taking a piece of vacuum hose large enough to capture the bulb and using it from the front to install/remove the lamps that way.

ThePackRat

Not an exclusive issue to these clusters in particular ...

But sometimes over time ... age & heat permanently fubar's the cavities the bulb sockets twist into.

At that point the socket(s) kinda just clunk around in the cavity ... if they even manage to stay in there at all.

I had a tachometer on a Cougar do that to me.

Blaine B.

Just fixed the links for the photos.