Ok been thru this before and can't seem to end the frustation. When I turn ignition to start engine if the engine doesn't start immediatley the starter gets held up. I can turn the key to off and remove it and the starter keeps turning and it is engaged!!. I have to use the quick disconnect to stop it.
Here is what I have done: New starter and selenoid, new plugs, wires, cap and rotor, points, ignition coil and battery. I have replaced ground cable and both cables to battery and installed new ignition and all electrical wires to starter are new
I have removed the starter and had it bench tested and it is at specs.
If the car has been running and engine warm the car starts just fine.
What can the problem be?
Can bad timing cause this problem
It took 15 min trying to start car at the end of car show today and I wasn't happy, any thoughts?
Thanks all

 

Bad battery. Solenoid may need to be changed as well after staying engaged. It sounds like the battery is bad causing the solenoid to weld itself in the closed position. This can happen if the battery is low or bad. Check for battery drain. After car has been running, the battery is charged from the charging system. If battery checks good change solenoid. . What do you mean (been thru this before)?

 

I have been dealing with this all year. ( and I have posted before)
It would happen every now and then. Now the mornings are cold it is happening every time I first start it or when its sits for a long time as it did at the car show yesterday. The solenoid is new. The battery is new but I am suspicious of its cranking cold capacity.
I think I will put a meter on battery before and during starting and see what happens

 

If you haven't solved this by now, you might check to see if hot wire to solenoid is routed through a relay. This is is done sometimes to cut down on the power drain on other parts of the electrical system.

 

On your starter, did you ever put a meter on the "s" terminal when it acts up to see if your getting a stray voltage?? Is your "I" terminal some how feeding back to it?? There are not very many things that cause your problem! But it seems that your problem may lie in the wiring on the car, perhaps not with your starter!

 

The hotwire is routed thru the horn relay. I haven't put a meter on the starter I only bench tested it when I took it off the car earlier this spring. It was working to specs when it was tested. The battery is new ( but I have questions about its value, purchased at a big box store)
I am leading toward the battery 'cause twice in the last two weeks I tested the battery and it was not fully charged. I think the cold crank power is very suspect.
I tested the battery after a 5 min drive and the battery is at full load capacity. When the battery is at this stage (normally after it has started and run) I have no starter issues.
I do have one question.... the battery does run thru the horn relay as does the hot line to the starter. I have checked on a cost for this tiny item and it runs @ 40.00. The horn does work but on numerous attempts it will not work. I haven't found one for my 64 88.
Could the horn relay be the issue?

 

No, I would not be concerned about the horn relay being the problem.
All it does is provide a post for all the wires to bolt on to.

I would consider, however, the possibility of starter misalignment.
This would be unusual, as most people can just bolt any starter on at any time and not have a problem, but there are specs for starter gear clearance, and I have had to set them properly myself on one occasion.

If your starter gear is hitting the ring gear at a bad angle, it may be sticking out, thereby holding the solenoid out, and maintaining the solenoid connection.

I think that a bad battery or other low-voltage condition is more likely than this, but since you have replaced everything (presumably with the correct parts), I'd consider it.

- Eric

 

I agree with Eric on the starter relay, as it is only a junction block and I certainly would not rule out a misalignment or possibly needing a shim!

Low voltage conditions would certainly cause a problem, but usually its a situation where the gear doesn't fully engage the flexplate and thats not whats happening in this case!

Since you have a quick disconnect on your starter, jack up the car, disconnect the coil wire off the top of your distributor, jack it up, have a buddy hit the key with a meter connected to the "S" terminal on your starter. Note if the voltage goes away when the starter hangs up and the key is released! That will isolate your cars wiring completely out of the picture if it hangs and there is no voltage on that terminal!

 

Thanks
I have a few more weeks of driving before the winter hits. I will do that a few days before the winter lay-over.

 

I found the problem!!!!
I had the car on a lift and spent some time on the starter. First it is plum perfect and alignment is spot on. We placed a meter on the battery during start up and it was **** poor. ( the battery is new!!) The battery dropped voltage... almost no cranking amps left after two attempts to start. We also noticed starter is not fully engaged and seems to get hung up.
I replaced with new battery with a much higher cold crank capacity. When we turned ignition the starter snapped quickly and fully engaged.
I waited two days before starting car again (including morning temps of 22deg) Bamm! The car turned over in a second. The last few days have been cold and not had one starting issue.
Thanks all for you advice!!.
Navvet

 

Excelent!! Glad you got it sorted! Persistence pays.

- Eric

 

I'm a little late to the party, but I wanted to add for others who may have this problem and come across this thread that slight alignment issues combined with new parts (starter, flywheel) can cause or exacerbate this problem. I have had this exact same issue on two different cars, two different manufacturers, both brand new batteries and starters, and both starters engaged and wouldn't disengage during the first initial startup process.

It's an interesting problem, because it would lead you to believe that the starter is still getting a start signal, but this isn't necessarily true. Once the starter is engaged and if it gets stuck for some reason, you can take your key out of the ignition and the starter will just continue cranking. The start signal generally only tells the solenoid to engage, and the solenoid completes the circuit to the starter motor itself. If the solenoid doesn't disengage, neither does the starter motor circuit. (I believe an exception to this would be if you have a Ford style remote starter solenoid hooked up, this may kill all power to the starter, and if so would be the sole benefit IMO to using the remote solenoid)

Thankfully, in both of my cases, it was an isolated incident and never happened again. I still carry a small wrench in the driver's door armrest in both cars though, to disconnect the battery...just in case.

 

Welcome to the site, Intragration. Good post as well.

 

The issue has not arisen since I changed the battery BUT I am only 90% confident the issue has been solved. The car is starting fine but twice the last week there was a second or two it seemed the starter was acting up again. Next spring I have some engine work planned and the car will be on the lift for a week at least and I will hit the starter first thing. Never to late for opinions or advise. Thanks

 

You may want to check for a drain (draw) on the battery. If there is a draw it willl pull the battery down and the nightmare will return. You may also want to replace the solenoid. Once they stick or start on low volts, the contacts can become burnt and have high spots that are prone to sticking again. If you get a new solenoid please don't look for a bargain priced one. There is a big difference between a quality solenoid and a cheapo.