KetsMcLets

Hi all,


I want to identify which exact engine is in my car, what are the things to look for?


The reason I'm asking is the car was imported in the early nineties here in Belgium and was originaly a 450cui. For tax purposes they changed it to a smaller displacement engine, the paperwork says a Cutlass 260 engine but there are Chevy Edelbrock camcovers on so I'm a little confused?? I'm guessing these engines share other make and models so they fitted Chevy camcovers for the bling chrome or something.


This is my first american muscle restoration so still in the learning process, they're quite different than european cars


So where on the block can I identify this engine? Any pointers to identify the transmission would also be appreciated!


Here's a picture of the engine, can make more if needed. The thing on top of the carb is the LPG inlet venturi, all american cars drive on LPG over here because of the cost of gasoline.

rocketraider

Didn't realise there are still places that base vehicle tax on engine size or horsepower.

You still have an Olds engine, not a Chevrolet. Look between the intake manifold and water pump and you'll see either a number or a letter to the left side of the car. Number indicates a small block (260, 330, 350, 403) and letter indicates a big block (400, 425, 455) engine. Tell us the number or letter and we can identify it for you. A 1974 88 will work a 260 to death though.

LPG conversion is interesting. I've always heard it makes better power with better fuel economy than gasoline. Fleet trucks are about all we see it on here in the US.

KetsMcLets

Thanks! I'll look for the numbers tomorrow first thing when I get to my garage. The papers say 4300cc, so should be a 260cui block i guess but we'll see what is really in there because here in Belgium you never know. Maybe they just changed the paperwork without replacing the engine to get lower tax rates..


Now that the car is an oldtimer (+25years here) it is tax-exempt so I would like to place an original 450cui engine back in, are these hard to come by nowadays? Or are they available as crate engines or something?

1yesfan

I have never seen an air breather like that. That car runs on what?

Tedd Thompson

455's are fairly common here in the states,but no true GM crate engines are available any more. There are private engine builders that will that sell rebuilt engines, these are not factory new.

While you are looking at your engine take a look at the transmission also and see what the previous owner has left you. A th400 would be your best bet for a 455 and if you truly do have a 260 in there you will probably have a th350, usable but not as robust as a th400. A picture of your transmission pan would let us know what you have....Tedd

KetsMcLets

LPG is Liquified Petroleum Gas, its a byproduct from gasoline production and a common conversion for big displacement gasoline engines here, although any petrol engine can be converted really. Lpg is the old system and uses a high pressure tank in the boot,an expander under the hood and this then feeds the gas through a venturi between airfilter and carburettor. All controlled electonicaly, so basicly you have a switch in the dash to choose if you want to drive on LPG or gasoline, both are possible. The old system has higher fuel consumption and a slight loss of power because of the venturi before the carb. But because 1 Litre of LPG costs roughly 0,50€ and 1 £Litre of gasoline 98ron is 1,50€ it is a very cheap way to drive them big engines over here
Now with the EFI engines the most common is LPI, its the same principle but injected through injectors, this has very good fuel consumption and no loss of power, sometimes even a slight increase because of the cold gas being injected into the manifold.


A lot to read but you asked


now back to the Olds, it seems only the oilcap is Chevy, the covers only say edelbrock so this is good I guess.


Then there's the pictures of the numbers between the inlet and pump, it says "4B" on the drivers side and "557265" on the other side. I also took a picture of the VIN badge maybe someone can give some info of the car in general??


And last a picture of the carburettor, it says "Carter AFB Competition series" so maybe also not original?

KetsMcLets

And as for the transmission I also took some pictures, hope thes are a bit helpfull it was hard reaching under the car and taking pictures at the same time




I also noticed that the flywheel and torqueconverter have no shield on them, this can't be right?? Everything is exposed this way..this needs sorting!

KetsMcLets

Just done some research myself and it appears to be a 1977 403cui block, confused now??! :S

MDchanic

So, you have a 403ci engine and a TH400 transmission.

While you can certainly install a 455, that 403 can be built to be a powerful engine, if you wish, and if it's running well, there is no need to change it.

The TH400 is probably the original transmission, as it would have come with the original 455.

Somebody got tricky with the paperwork, and you have benefitted from it.

Beware, though - the 403 block has the number "403" cast into the sides of the block, about 4-5cm tall, so it is not hard for an inspector to tell which engine it is.

- Eric

joe_padavano

So, it's been replaced at some point in the last 40 years. And that could be a 1977-1979 403. The only way to find out for sure is to locate the VIN derivative number on the side of the block below the No. 1 spark plug.

Oh, your biggest problem is that breather cap with the Chevy logo. Than definitely needs to go.

KetsMcLets

Okay thanks guys.. Most people here don't know how to convert from cubic inch to cc's so that'll not be a ploblem I guess (hope) Worst case I'll have to put an Original 455 in.
Ill check that VIN derivative numberthing too to be sure!




Does anyone know something about that carburettor, Original of not? Keep or lose it? There are hooker headers on the engine so that's positive allthough they could use some ceramic coating

joe_padavano

Yeah, I HATE it when I'm forced to use a 455 instead of a 403...


It's a Carter AFB from the 1980s. Edelbrock bought the rights to these carbs and has rebadged them as their Edelbrock carbs. Note the square bore-to-spreadbore adapter plate between the carb and the factory iron intake. The AFB is probably my second choice behind a QJet, but it can be made to work. It depends on the CFM rating of the carb (and whether or not the inside of the carb looks as bad as the outside ).

KetsMcLets

yes a 455 would be nice but I'm just thinking of all the extra hassle of getting one shipped to Europe and extra costs and all that stuff


So keep the carb then, didn't even notice the adapterplate thanks! It really looks bad yes but so does the rest of the car so at least it's consistent I'll start restoring it in half a year or so when my garage gets freed up from another project.


Thanks a lot for all the info!!

KetsMcLets

Haven't had a chance to check the vin-derivative engine number as its hard to reach but next time I'll have a chance in daylight I'll get to it.


Now I'm messing with all the paperwork and I have another question: whereabout is the VIN number stamped on the chassis on a delta 88? Wouldn't know where to start looking!!


Under the hood also I've got 2 little plates, the plate in the first picture has the VIN number on it and the belgian PVG code and then there's another plate that says "body by fisher" and there's also some sort of code on it, what is this??



Maybe they're stupid questions but I couldn't find anything on this and want to know Gradually working my way through these new kind of cars


Thanks

Octania

Interesting Euro extra VIN tag there. Must have been a requirement for import.

The VIN stamp on the car? Dashboard, driver side, at base of windshield, should be the main one, but perhaps your square plate replaces that. On the frame, somewhere, very hard to find unless the body is off. LH frame rail, top surface USUALLY but sometimes outboard side. anywhere from front seat area to kickup over rear axle.

Your Trans should have a VIN stamp on it, LH side, about midway in the pan area, just above the pan, in the aluminum case itself. 34M100123 or something like that, which should match the car's VIN in the usual way- final 6 a direct match for sure. If not, no big deal. To us, anyhow. I see a Lansing body tag, so your VIN must contain the "M".

As for what flavor 403 you have... you can read the VIN stamp but it will not matter except as a curiosity. 1) All the 403's were pretty much identical- same compression, heads, etc. and 2) yours has headers, different carb, no telling what-all has been changed, so it is no longer what it was born as anyhow.

Look for a "4A" or similar large casting ID on the heads, front end of LH head by #1 plug, or near #8 plug aft end of RH head. 4A heads are stock 403. Many others could have been installed, to raise compression typically.

Check also your intake casting ID- in the depression behind the thermostat- probably #17 or 16, again very large characters. Smaller 6-digit may be behind the carb, but why not use the easy to find and see large one at the front? It looks like "411990" is in front of the carb, which is the #16 casting. Common iron EGR type intake.

As to the "403" cast into the side of the block- yeah, but the early 260 blocks had their CASTING NUMBER in huge figures there- "355" so you can always assert that it means nothing. Or, remove it.

You have a High Torque starter, which is probably why the trans inspection cover does not fit and is not there.

The chrome rocker covers don't really look all that good all rusty. I suggest not using chrome unless the car is never really driven. Painted parts look good much longer. You can lose that Chevy breather for sure, at least put a rocket emblem wheel center over it, eh?

I believe you have Hooker headers, a fine brand to have.

here is a factory breather filter, pricey and new, used ones are plentiful here.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-GM-1968-...c78c64&vxp=mtr

KetsMcLets

Okay thanks for all the info! I'll check all of those things next time I'm over @ the garage.


The breathercap will go yes, definately!! And the engine, yes it will be overhauled probably, not been able to do any compression checks or so but it will also be completely repainted too.


thanks!

joe_padavano

The first tag is unique to the country and is not issued by GM. The second tag is the cowl tag and was installed by Fisher Body when the body was fabricated. It does not have the VIN, as the VIN had not yet been assigned at the factory when this cowl was attached to the body shell. It provides the model code (3BN67) and the Fisher Body sequence number (227964). This is unrelated to the VIN.

If you are looking for the VIN derivative stamped on the frame rail (as opposed to the VIN tag at the base of the windshield), be aware that the frame stamp is not a complete VIN, only a VIN derivative like those stamped on the block and trans case. It is usually on the top of the driver's side frame rail, in front of the rear axle, but can also be on a crossmember. Good luck finding it with the body in place.

KetsMcLets

Hi everybody!! It's been a while since I posted this thread, but it's finally time to get on with it. The engine now sits in my garage and I'm going to refresh it a bit before putting it back in the car. Only cosmetically as it ran just fine, so I'll clean and paint it and change some little things like the freeze plugs, waterpump, thermostat+housing, plugs, etc..

I have some questions, so I have the 403cui 557265-4B engine.

- can I then just order the parts for, say, a 1977 Cutlass 403 ? like here: https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...cooling+system
- what paint code is the 1974 Delta 88 convertible 455 engine, so I can get it at least looking right until I can get a real 455 in there?
- my hooker headers are totally shot, where can I get some new ones, preferably in chrome or stainless


Thanks all!