CreepyOldGuy

I'm considering purchasing a classic Olds, a 59' Super 88 4dr HT. I have a little bit of apprehension on this purchase, I'm looking for some feedback and guidance.

While looking for an early 50's Ford, I stumbled across this Olds. This era is usually not my thing, I'm an early 50's fan. But I really like the looks of this car and the uniqueness - I had never seen a 59' Olds until a few days ago. Anyway, the car in question is from the original purchasing family. It has been sitting since the early 70's, mostly in a barn but the last 10 or so years outside. The car is incredibly straight with only monor rust in one of the front fenders and in the rear wheel well openings. All of the trim is intact and in good shape. The interior is toast, looks like it has been a rat motel for most of the time the car has sat. All of the interior parts are present though. I cannot determine the condition of the floors because of the rodent mess and trash in the car, what I can see looks good. The hinges on the trunk lid are froze, with the lid being partially open, I'm expecting I would find rust in the trunk floor if I could see it through the trash. The hood hinges are also frozen, I can't get the hood open. The owner claims everything under the hood is there. Obviously a full on project to bring this one back to life. I have the skill to do most of the work myself, the money part would slow me down, but I think I could have it on the road over a couple of years. My intentions would be to bring it back, mostly stock, maybe with modern brakes and upgraded suspension for drive-ability. I like the 50's hot rod look, lowered a little, wide white walls, etc. This would be a family cruising car, I have three little rug rats.

My heart says buy (save it form the crusher) this car and bring it back to it's former glory and have fun cruising in it with the family. My brain says it's a four door, why the hell do you want to put time and resources into a 55 year old four door car? But I like it.

What do you guys think, is a a 59' Super 88 4dr HT worth the money and time for a full restoration? Maybe I should keep looking at early 50's FoMoCo stuff.....sigh

Oldsmaniac

You will have way more cash into it than you will be able to sell it for.... Would love to see a car like that restored too bad it has 4 doors.

lshlsh2

If you think it is worth the time and money then it is. Will you get your money back, 10-20% if your lucky but you probably already know that. The one thing that is good about the olds it will probably be the only one at any shows you go to. Check and make sure the car is mostly complete because parts will be very hard to get. if you like it and can do most of the work yourself go for it.

Larry

CreepyOldGuy

The $$ investment vs value if the car is a big consideration. I have found a couple of high dollar 4 doors for sale cruising the web, I doubt they will bring anywhere near the asking prices.

CreepyOldGuy

Thanks for the encouragement. I like the unique part of this car.

It seems to be all there, the only parts I found missing were the trim pieces on the quarters extending forward from the rear bumper. The owner said they should be in the trunk, but I will have to assume they are not. Under the hood is unknown, I'm not too worried about this, I might be better off with a later model Olds drive-train anyway.

CreepyOldGuy

A couple of pics

jaunty75

The car is sunk in the ground up to the frame and has been sitting outside for at least 10 years that the owner will admit to. You say you can't see the floors because there's too much rodent crud and trash around. With the entire underside of the car in contact with the ground for years, I wouldn't be surprised if there are no floors.

If the trunk hinges are seized and the hood hinges are seized, how much you want to bet the engine is seized? Not that these are related, but I'm just guessing.

Until I saw your photos, I thought you might have something. After seeing the photos, I would pass on it. For what you'll spend on fixing it up, you're better off starting with something in better shape to begin with. If you find another '59, this one could be a parts car for it.

What's the asking price?

59-59-59

Why even start a project like this if you like the cheapo early '50's Ford stuff?? Go with what YOU like, cause if you don't, this will probably end up being a half finished project you will be selling to somebody else

CreepyOldGuy

The frame/floors are off the ground. I poked around with a screw driver, the floors seem solid. None the less, I would be taking a chance on the condition of the floors and frame.

I'm not too concerned about the engine condition, I'm making the assumption that it needs to rebuilt or replaced.

CreepyOldGuy

I like all sorts of old cars. Other than this Olds, most of the cars I have been drawn to are FoMoCo products. I'm ready to pull the trigger on a project, I need to decide what, I'm after the "look" that strikes me, this Olds has it. The other car strongly in the running is a 54' Lincoln Capri.

oldcutlass

Too far gone for me.

lazy394

If you can turn the spanners yourself you can do well on a budget, but if you need to pay for most things id give it a miss.
That looks like a candidate for a patina paint job, fix the rust and clear coat over it to save the patina and a set of red steel wheels.
All the suspension and brake parts are easy to find, but if its a 394 with a Jetaway I would look at a transplant. Both are expensive to do anything to.
Because of the popularity of the 59 caddy an awful lot of common parts are easily found.
If you want to stand out and make a statement there is no finer than an 18 foot chromesmobile land yacht, but then im bias
PS I bought mine after looking at a couple 56 Lincolns interstate, and on the flight back reading Unique prices magazine I spotted my Olds. Id never seen one but was taken at first sight, and have no regrets.

324rat

I just bought 2 1955 olds four door hardtops. the make great cruisers. i'd buy it in a minute.

CreepyOldGuy

Thanks for all of the feedback. I'm going to look at it again in the next day or so and figure out what I want to do. I will bring a floor jack and see if I can get underneath the car a little. Not sure what to do about not being able to open the hood, I guess I'm going to have to take this guys word that it is all there. I also found a 96' Buick Roadmaster with the LT1 in it for cheap, this and the Olds are within my budget. I think the modern drive train and the cool Olds would make for a nice driver combo.

Tedd Thompson

Before I would buy a tinker toy car the hood would have to come up and a look see made no matter what the owner said.There could be thousands of dollar differences on what you do or do not see. You are going to look at the engine sooner or later why not before you spend hard earned bucks...Just my thoughts....Tedd

twintracks

It looks very rust free and straight. Good chrome, too. If it's in a dry climate, and did not have previous engine damage, I bet it will start. Unless it has rodent damage in the engine. I'd jack it up, climb in there, and spray the hinges down with penetrant. You cannot make a good decision without looking at the engine.
4 doors are coming on in popularity due to the family utility, and the scarceness of 2 doors. It would be a fun project, but you would be further ahead to find one that has had better care.

CreepyOldGuy

Thanks for the suggestions on looking under the hood. I was going to look at the car again on my lunch break tomorrow. Instead, I will go after work armed with some penetrant and a way to get under the car and time to mess with it. I think it is a good idea to look under the hood, who knows what is or is not there.

The car is in a dry climate. I get the impression it did not have many miles put on it. I'm going to assume the wiring is a mess with the rodent activity, I would still try and resurrect the engine after taking the usual measures of bringing a not ran in a long time engine back to life.

twintracks, thanks for the vote in confidence regarding the 4 door. I would prefer a 2 door project car. Except for station wagons, this is the only 4 door car that I have had any interest in. But, I think this car is just too cool and unique to pass on. I have been researching and looking at pics on the web, the 4 door HT is really growing on me. Additionally, I believe I have the opportunity to own this car very inexpensively.

I have been looking, off and on, for a project car for the last three years or so. I have passed on a couple that I now wish I would have put apprehension aside and pulled the trigger on. I'm beginning to feel that if I do not jump on this car I'm going to have the same thoughts about it. Unless I find something scary underneath or under the hood, I think I'm going to go for it.

Oldsmaniac

Well then you may as well do it and join us crazies here that are gluttons for punishment and who walk around with empty wallets due to the addiction.

CreepyOldGuy

Ha ha, that is a good way to put it

I have this car addiction thing. I have always had a "project" car. Most of them newer stuff. I have not had what I would consider a classic since high school, mid 80's. I have been on this old car kick for sometime now, I need to satisfy the craving.

johns59super88

I have those rear fender blister pieces if you need them. Also have a number of other parts for a 59. Where are you located? I know of about 10 59's in various junkyards. Any idea of miles on the car? I think a flattop hardtop is pretty cool.
John

CreepyOldGuy

PM sent.

Charly9g

Hi Creepy. I'm doing a '57 Olds at the moment. All of my interior dash pieces are made of POT METAL which is seriously expensive to re-chrome. I don't know if they continued this practice in '59, but keep it in mind. I love the look of the car, good luck. Keep us posted. Bill. Charly9g

CreepyOldGuy

Looked at it again today on my lunch break.

Revisited all of the trim and body, found some hail damage on the lower rear window and front passenger side trim, assuming this stuff is stainless so I believe it is repairable if I can't find fair priced replacements? As previously mentioned, the rear quarter trim is missing, found one in the trunk but it is not in very good condition. The driver side front fender trim has been re-affixed with two screws, so it will need replacing. Front bumper and grille are nice. The body is better than my first appraisal, very minimal rust above the rear wheels, a baseball sized spot in the lower part of the passenger front fender. The rear bumper has a tear in the bottom of it, about 2", not visible without looking closely. Small dent in the passenger quarter, visible in the pics I posted. Otherwise, this car is very straight and rust free.

We managed to get the hood open. Everything is there including the factory air cleaner. Very clean under the hood considering it has been sitting since 73'. The car has power steering and brakes, no AC. No obvious rodent damage here, but I expect many electrical surprises from the rodent activity.

Interior is dirty, rodent nests and droppings. Back seat upholstery might be salvageable except the possibility of rodent pee and my kids sitting back there does not mix. The headliner has collapsed, I can't tell if all of the cross trim pieces are there as I'm not familiar enough with what a 59' should look like inside. Dash trim and chrome is nice and all intact, nothing missing except for the ignition switch. Manual windows, power seat, basic factory radio intact. I poked around at the floor as much as I was comfortable with the rodent mess. The carpet is dry rotted and peeled back easily with my foot, the floor areas that I could see look like new with nice factory paint and no signs of rust! The visible digits in the odometer are badly sun bleached, they appear to start with a "9" indicating 90k or so miles which the owner believes to be acurate. The original 1959 license plate is sitting on the back seat my state allows year of manufacturer plates to be used so I can register the car to the original plate!

Looking under the car as much as I could, the frame appears to be in nice shape with the only ground contact being in two small areas just in front of the rear wheels.

I told the owner I would make him an offer or move on tomorrow. Collector Car Market Review values this car in #5 condition at $1100. I would easily spend another couple hundred dollars getting it home as I would need to hire a friend with a trailer and put tires on it to be able to load and move it around. The car is about 120 miles from my house, so I will spend time and fuel with a trip to pick up the wheels. I'm taking a chance on the condition of the floor areas that I cannot see and the trunk floor. Also with the frame as I cannot properly inspect it, though I believe it is okay. I'm thinking this is a $500 - $700 car. What do you guys think.

Oldsmaniac

I think your offer is low. Just add up all the items that would bring money as a parts car. I would say go a grand and tell him take it or leave it. It all depends how bad he wants to sell it. It may be worth 600 or so just for scrap to a junk man.

CreepyOldGuy

Definitely some parts value to the car. I will start out low and work up as needed, He seems like he want to move it, he is stated a few times that he is very negotiable on price.

johns59super88

I think Oldsmaniac is right, you're a little low. However, I think the real question is what do you want to do with the car and what will that cost. If you just want a serviceable old car you will still put a few thousand into it making it complete and replacing the weatherstripping, dealing with upholstery, etc. In my experience, there's probably more rot than what you could see. If you want to make it pretty you would be looking at replacing a few parts of panels, maybe rockers, etc. It's a really big car and a really cool car. You'll probably want to make it look really good which takes lots of hours and money. Also consider complete brake and brake line replacement for safety, possibly some suspension work, possibly fuel lines and tank restoration, some rebuild kits for carb, master cylinder, fuel pump and the like.

I'm not trying to pour cold water on the idea but I wish I had realized all this before I bought my 59 which was running, driving, starting and stopping. I think you will be able to get every part you need for it without too much difficulty and all the repairs are doable either by you or someone else. But bottom line, a few hundred bucks difference on the purchase price is irrelevant when considering how much you will spend going forward. Keep us up to date and as I said, I have or can easily get some of the stuff you need.
John

Centurion

Creepy Old Guy, I love this car -- and I'm one who particularly thinks that this 4-door hardtop body style is especially desirable. I have corresponded during recent years with numerous 1959 / 1960 General Motors collectors who regard this flat-top 4-door hardtop body style as the most interesting of the closed body styles.

If you want a little inspiration, you might enjoy browsing through the more than 1,000 photos that have been uploaded to the flickr photo group dedicated to this flat-top 4-door hardtop body style. Many of the cars shown are beautiful 1959 Oldsmobiles:

https://www.flickr.com/groups/2133960@N24/pool/

Keep us posted! I'd love to see you retain the 394 and Hydramatic that are in the car if you can revive them!

johns59super88

I love the flat tops. They look like they're moving and the roof is trying to catch up! Classy!

CreepyOldGuy

I think I have a fairly realistic idea of what it will take to get this thing back on the road. I do have some restoration experience, I did a frame off with a bunch of mods on a early FJ40 Land Cruiser a few years ago. I'm going at this with the attitude that it will take at least a few years to get it on the road and that all systems will need to be renewed or replaced. I'm comfortable in doing all mechanical, electrical and light body work myself. I would probably farm out the paint. I might try my hand at upholstery, but I have a neighbor who owns an upholstery shop, he told me he is itching to do a classic car. This would be a full on restoration, I would not be happy driving the car around not operating correctly or looking ratty, inside or out. I wold not be looking for a perfect show quality restoration but something with a few modern amenities for reliability and that I would enjoy driving, AC, disc brakes, nothing crazy.

CreepyOldGuy

Thanks for the link, beautiful cars! Maybe one day I will have something worthy to display here

Are there any clubs, groups, etc who are specifically into the 59/60 flat tops? If so, please share where to look.

johns59super88

Creepy, sounds like you're going into this a lot smarter than I was when I did it. I've been working on mine for 3 1/2 years. It waited on the body and paint guy for almost 2 years. I'm just now putting side windows and weatherstrip on it. Interior will be left but I may go with what it had which was pretty good but not original.

Let me know how it goes and I'll dig out the parts you might want.
John

CreepyOldGuy

John, I'm not sure how smart I am messing around with these old cars, but I do enjoy tinkering with anything old and automotive I have been thinking and planning for a classic car project for quite a few years, I'm sure I will run into roadblocks, but I am confident I can get it done.

Thanks for sharing the pic of your car, looks great! I really like the color combo, is that the original color combo for your car?

redoldsman

You are going to spend a lot of money even if you do most of the work yourself. I think it is a neat car but it is in terrible shape. While my 54 may look showroom fresh, it is still a 60 year old car. In the last year I have spend about $550 having the treadle vac rebuilt and I just spent $550 on a set of rocker arms. I have no regrets but you will have a long way to go. If I were doing it, I would go for a later drive line, do some single stage paint and probably see if I could pick up some seats from a junk yard that would at least fit the front. I would be looking for bargains and forget about trying to make it original. It would make a great cruiser and not cost as much. Good luck and keep us posted.

johns59super88

Creepy, the original color was solid bronze mist. I didn't like it. I don't like brown cars. The guy I bought it from had painted it candy apple red and white but the reverse of what you see. I picked this combo because it was an original color scheme for a 59 and a very close match to original red and white colors for 59. I personally love it. The car is a Super 88 but I found a set of rocker trim pieces and back wheel opening trim pieces for a 98 and put that on it although the back wheel trim is not installed in the pic I posted. It is now.

CreepyOldGuy

Thank you for the insight. I'm sure it will not be cheap, but I think I am ready for it.

You brought up the treadle vac, I have been looking around for ways to get rid of that. I'm thinking that is some of the 50's technology I do not want to deal with.

I noticed the Diamond Lil in the back ground of your signature photo. Just curious if you are a CAF member? I am not, but my uncle tells me a bunch of stories about working on and flying these old planes, in particular Fi Fi. He recently moved away from TX but was heavily involved with the CAF for a few years.

CreepyOldGuy

I agree, I'm not much for brown cars either. The red/white combo looks great, good choices!

If I am successful at purchasing this car we have been chatting about I will have to figure out where I want to go with paint. It looks like aqua marine on the top and white on the bottom.

redoldsman

I had the treadle vac rebuilt to keep the car original. I got the pictures in front of Diamond Lil at a show in August done in conjunction with the CAF. These may be the best pictures I ever get of my car. I am not a member of the CAF. They are in the process of moving their headquarters to Dallas from Midland. I have been through FiFI but have not see her fly. CAF is an incredible organization. I get goosebumps when I hear these old birds start up.

CreepyOldGuy

I understand keeping everything original on a convertible. Your car looks fantastic from the pics!

What are your thoughts on the reliability and operation of the treadle vac? My thoughts are to update it, but I would enjoy hearing real world experience with it before deciding.

I have not had the occasion to see the planes in person. My uncle maintained and crewed FiFi mainly, but the other too. I'm happy seeing a group of people dedicated to keeping them in the air. When I was a kid, my uncle (same one formerly in the CAF) would take me on weekend aircraft repair jobs with him, helicopter and fixed wing. I had the opportunity to kick around and fly in a lot of cool aircraft. I think that is what partially fostered my love for anything with an engine....very fond memories.

CreepyOldGuy

I made an offer on the car. He seemed okay with it, but wanted to run it by his brother before committing as the car is a piece of family history. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we have a deal and I can pick her up soon.

twintracks

I rebuilt the treadle-vac on my '55 98 myself with the kit from Fusick. It was no more difficult than rebuilding a carb. To me, stock is always simpler than modified. If you go that route, be sure to order the flexible brake hose that connects the treadle-vac to the hard lines.