Hey folks, excited to be able to buy my dream car. A 1969 442 Convertible. I bought it with a 455 bbo from a 71. Previous owner said that the motor was rebuilt but once I saw the J stamped on the heads I knew that the engine was not built by a guy who knows Olds. (Either that or it was a budget build).
Anyhow, I plan on pulling the engine in a couple months but one of the first things asked was what gears am I running out back. I googled and googled and could not find out what damn gears came with. Its a 69 442 convertible with a 3 speed auto. I looked underneath and it is a 12 bolt. Can anybody enlighten me? Did they come stock with posi?
Please don’t bash me for being a novice. My dad had a 69 Olds Cutlass and I remember riding in it as a kid and he loved it. I would remember him punching it and I’d just chuckle. I knew one day that I needed one of my own...
below is a pic of my ride..

 

Pop the differential cover off, and you know for sure. Same time you automatically change new oils to rear, so its a win-win.

This post aint meant to sound harsh, but on 51-year old car, ANYTHING could have happened to it during the years.

 

Welcome aboard! That is one sharp ‘69!! Love the color! If it is an Olds rear end there will be a two character code on the passenger side axle tube. It is usually stamped upside down, sometimes on the front side of the tube. It will be either two letters or a letter followed by a number. If the carrier and gears inside the diff have not been changed, this code will tell you which gear set it was born with. The only way to know for certain is to open it up and look for the stamped codes on the outer edge of the ring gear.

Here is a pic of what a typical code will look like, this one is a “TL” :

 

Welcome. First, your "twelve bolt" axle really isn't. Except for cars built in Canada, all 1969 442s came with a Type O rear axle, which has a twelve bolt cover but only an 8.5" diameter ten bolt ring gear. Parts are unique to this axle and can be difficult to find. The Type O was only used in 1966-1970 Cutlass cars. The standard ratio for a 1969 442 with TH400 was 3.08:1, but there were eight different ratios available from 2.56 to 4.66 so you need to either find the stamped code or determine the actual ratio by other means. Anti-Spin was an option under RPO G80.

 

thanks for the quick reply! I appreciate it!

 

First off, probably not a 71 motor having J heads. A lot can happen in 50 years, the whole drive train could have been swapped. Also make sure which 12 bolt cover diff you have before buying parts.

 

Some advice... as some have kind of stated already....DO NOT get discouraged....Finding ANY all original car is VERY VERY hard. As long as the car provides you with what you need fun rides and smiles for you and your loved ones you have success. Do not kill yourself with all the Original stuff....UNLESS that is your MAIN goal here.
I think finding out all the stuff you have first is very smart as you are doing and then evaluate what NEEDS to be do over what you want and can not out up with...
MAybe send pictures of the rear trans pan and motor shots and we can all help ID what you have then you can at least know where you need and want to go.

Jim
JD Race

 

Welcome! As Joe points out, your rear is likely a Type O unless your car was built in Canada (Oshawa), which should be evident from your data plate if that is the case. The easiest and quickest way to differentiate (weak pun intended) a Type O from a Chevy 12-bolt is a wavy S-shaped ridge on the back cover of the Chevy, whereas the Olds cover is smooth.

Regardless, nice car!

 

Also in the VIN (the seventh character would be the number "1" instead of a letter for the assembly plant). If the car is originally from Calif, then it likely came from Fremont anyway.

 

hey thanks for the reply. The stamp on the block was 396021F (with no A). From what I read, that seems to be correct..but again, I’m no Olds guru. And yes, I will definitely look before buying the parts for a differential rebuild! Anybody recommend a reputable site to purchase rear end parts?

 

The first thing you need to learn on your quest to become an Olds guru is that much of what you may read, especially on line, will be incorrect. Despite what the notorious FAQ says, there are documented cars from 1973 and 74 with "F" (not FA) blocks from the factory. I personally have an "F" block with a 1973 VIN derivative stamp, and it's a san-serif "F" which supposedly was only 1968-70. The VIN derivative stamp on the block will tell you exactly what model year that block came from, with no fuzz on it. The second character is the model year.

 

hey thanks for the reply. I don’t know if I’d go as far as me aspiring to be a guru. But I get what you are saying. Here’s the actual pic of the block. Looking forward to some type of confirmation. Thanks again

 

That is an FA block, so consistent with 1973-up heads. Check the VIN derivative stamp.

 

hey thanks. So block is consistent from the boring era as well then right?

 

If the VIN derivative hasn't been machined off, you can determine the year of your engine block by that number. It will be stamped into a raised pad on the driver side forward on the engine block just below #1 cylinder. It's usually hard to see because it is somewhat covered by the power steering bracket and/or the alternator bracket. I strongly recommend buying a '69 Chassis Service Manual and a '69 Product Information Manual (PIM - also referred to as the assembly manual). As well, a handy little book that Supercars Unlimited puts out, titled "4-4-2 By The Numbers" is pretty good quick reference guide in checking a number of things on your 4-4-2.

Great car! Enjoy! And don't fret about newbie questions! I've been on this site for 12 years and I still have newbie questions! And this is a great place to get the best answers.

Randy C.

'68 4-4-2 convertible
'69 4-4-2 convertible

 

good to know. Thanks to all of you for the info. It goes a long way. I want to pull this motor some time this year. Can anybody shoot me to a reputable Olds builder who can build me a complete engine that’s willing to ship. I can’t wait for the replies on this..🤣

 

hey..that is awesome advice. Thank you, really..

 

Jim (monzaz) didn't mention it, but his business is rear ends. He should be able to set you up with anything you need.

http://jdrace.com/

 

thank you. I appreciate it

 

Nobody here will bash any new member, the insults come later!! 😁. All of us, even the experts, were novices at one time.


There are many Olds engine builders who are members here. Mark (cutlassefi) is a good one I have talked with many times.

I can’t stress this enough, stay away from Mondello performance in California! The mondello performance of today is not the same mondello performance of 20 years ago!! The new owner (Lynn) is a former used car salesman, and definitely lives up to the sleazy used car salesman reputation. He will tell you whatever parts you have are junk (or ont work for your application) whatever he has in stock is exactly what you need, overcharge and under deliver, and laugh when you try to dispute anything. He has burned countless people, don’t be the next.

I thought I was lucky when I bought my 69, thinking it had a 12 bolt rearend. Technically, it WAS a 12 bolt, just not the desirable one. The O axle (as mentioned before) isn’t well supported by the aftermarket. There are some gearsets available, and I think there are options to adapt carriers from other axles to fit the O axle. Nobody wants a stout engine in a car with One Wheel Peel!!

If you do have a O axle, the 8.5 10 bolt from a later A body is about the easiest swap and readily available. There is a ton of aftermarket support for that rear.

Best to pull the rear end cover, somewhere on the ring gear the tooth count will be stamped, and find out exactly what you have. Post a pic of the rear end cover, then we can tell you exactly what is under your car.

 

thanks man. I appreciate all the advice. I will definitely take you up on all of it. And yes, Mondello’s is a no-no. I heard that Bernard is ok though ( I believe Joe’s brother?)And on his site he stresses that he has no affiliation to Mondello’s Performance😂😂

 

Welcome to the Group! It's a great forum with lots of helpful and knowledgeable people. I haven't been on here all that long myself, but have received lots of useful tips and have been able to locate and buy some needed parts for my restoration. Good luck moving forward.

On the Olds engine builder....I would make a strong recommendation for Mark Jones who owns VortecPro out of Colorado Springs. He's built several engines for me in the last few years and does an amazing job. His attention to detail and skill levels are unsurpassed in my book. After working for GM and many car dealerships over the years, I can tell you he's top notch and the only one I would trust to ever build another engine for one of my cars. I will be driving the latest engine he built for me hopefully soon when I finish my restoration on my 1971 442 W-30 clone. Hope that helps!

 

thanks for the info on the engine builder. So far everybody on here has been nothing but helpful. I’ll put it out there to the world..This 69 that I just bought has been on my bucket list. I had to have it because my dad had one. I’m no gear-head by any means. My background is healthcare. I joined this forum to learn and find people to help with my build-literally. And of course, look at some bad-*** rides Before I joined I was told by 2 people..”make sure your engine builder knows about Olds engines and to NOT approach it like a Chevy or Ford. That alone sent me searching online and found this place. All you guys are awesome so far.

 

Bernard is Joe Mondello’s son.

Any competent machine shop can machine a Olds engine. The problem is finding one who is willing to machine things with the right clearances. The small block stuff isn’t quite as critical. The 455 bottom end is so heavy, not to mention the factory rods leave much to be desired.

If all your wanting to do is build a nice mild cruiser, then machining the crank/rods/etc to stock specs to provide factory clearances will be fine. Try to run a Olds engine at high rpm, with heavy stock parts, those tight clearances won’t work. The engine will “clearance” the bearings for you, you will find the debris in the filter.

Personally, I would machine any Olds 455 engine to the loose side of factory bearing clearance specs. If it’s a engine you plan to run really hard, a little more clearance is needed. There is a old saying “if the clearances are too loose, only your machinist will know. Build it too tight, EVERYONE will know”.

 

Great. I totally agree with your thoughts and sentiments. There are lots of engine builders out there but only a handful of good ones and ones that are knowledgeable about the quirks and differences between the engine technologies. The Olds engines definitely have allot more going on and require a much higher level of detail to address some of the deficiencies and peculiarities. It's important to find a builder that understands them all and has a proven reputation of addressing them. When a person spends all that money on an engine rebuild, it should test well on the dyno (hit the HP and torque goals) and be returned to the owner without leaks, noises, oiling issues, and everything else in-between. The builder should also be willing to stand behind it if something arises later. Keep those things in mind when you search for the right one for you.

 

Unless you're going to race it I'd leave the motor and drive it for now. Pulling it will just lead to spending lots of money on other things that you never planned on

 

all things mentioned has been absorbed, thanks. Though irrelevant, I just want to make sure this is also out there- I don’t know if how I’m trying to convey what I want is correct. I do not want mild. Ideally I’m looking to have something as nasty as possible but fwy worthy. Hope that makes sense.
I live on the coast of Northern CA. If any of you know the Hwy 1 is just breathtaking. There are stretches that are 40-65mph limits with stop lights every so often. I see classics up and down that hwy enjoying to ocean breeze, top down on a nice sunny day. I also have seen them side by side at the stop light ready for action. Let’s just say I don’t want to be the one looking at tail lights should that be the case.

 

Hey I’ll take your advice on that. I’ve already experienced “things you never planned on” when thinking swapping the manifolds to headers would be a simple task. Let’s just say it involved a few different shops when all said and done. Smh