I am trying to convert a 70 cutlass supreme convertible from non a/c to a/c and need some tech help. I don't want to dish out the big bucks for the "kit" to do this and would like to do it a little at a time. The whole car is torn apart now and I have easy access to the underdash stuff. The underdash heater box for a/c cars are available online. Question is: what other stuff under the dash do I need to do now and if I put in the a/c box in the dash without putting all the rest of the components will my heat/defrost/etc. still work? What about the firewall cutouts - how are they different? All the engine compartment stuff I can do later. I'm just concerned about the underdash stuff since this space is hard to work in once the car is put back together. Any help is appreciated. Thanks,

 

I don't know what's available on-line, but the only cost effective way to do this is to get EVERYTHING from a parts car. You'll nickel-and-dime yourself to death if you don't. The parts car will also give you a template for the different firewall cutouts. The A/C firewall cutouts are completely different from those for heater-only. You'll need to have the front end off to access the firewall from the engine side and to install the A/C HVAC box on the engine side of the firewall. Naturally you'll need the different control panel, dash vents, vacuum hose harness, etc, etc. There is really no good way to do this job in pieces. About the only part of this that you can put off is installing the compressor and engine brackets, but if you wait on that you'll need to be sure that the evaporator is completely capped and sealed until you do hook it up.

 

+1.

This job is not complicated, but it is detailed, and I would express it in three steps:

1. Get a parts car with A/C
2. Park it exactly next to your car
3. Systematically remove all A/C parts from the parts car and install them directly onto your car while you remember exactly where they go and how they are fastened, and while you can glance over at the other car to confirm.

- Eric

 

Don't forget this also means changing some pulleys and brackets on the engine. You'll also need to upgrade the alternator to at least 55 amps and possibly change your VR. Most AC cars I've seen also have a 3 core rad and extra cooling (shroud, fan clutch, 6 blade fan, seals) instead of the 2 core rad most non AC cars got. That means you'll also need to change over the water pump and get belts to fit. Check the assembly manual, it shows a great pictorial of the AC and ancillary controls/electrical that go with it.

 

Yes, Allan, but if he's got the other car right next to his, all of that will be easy.

- Eric

 

Get a vintage air unit and be done.

 

In a perfect world you'd get a parts car. But I don't know your situation, do you have room for that? If not, then I'd ask the question is this a restoration project where you want everything original, or just a fun driver that you want AC for? You've already identified a couple big items such as heater box with AC condenser. But The nickel and dime stuff can be things like the duct work, and correct valves behind the kick panels and under the dash. You mentioned you've got the car apart at this time. Do you have a Chassis Service Manual? It has great diagrams and pictures of the different parts a factory setup would require. I'd encourage you to use the Chassis Service Manual to evaluate if you want to do this or go with an aftermarket setup as 70cutty suggested. I'm sure you could find all the used parts needed for a factory setup through members here. But don't want you to get in the middle of the project and find its going to take much more time, money and trouble than you had planned for. John

 

Classic Auto Air and Old Air Products are a couple other possibilities. Of course if you want it to look original then a parts car is the only way to go.

 

thanks guys for all the responses. I've done most of the engine side work such as changing the pulleys, water pump, etc. in preparation for the a/c. I guess the parts car seems like the best bet but they are hard to come by here in upstate new york where everything rusts away quickly. I could use a list of cars that would match up so I can shop around. I also don't have the chassis service manual, just a Chilton's manual which isn't much help for detail or restoration work. The car is not going to be a restoration but, as you say, a regular driver that I want a/c in. I will be checking around for the chassis service manual.
Thanks again,
Mike K.

 

Hi Mike
Here's an example of the Chassis Service Manual for your year. This ones kinda spendy, but you can also download this for free on Wildaboutcars.com

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OLDSMOBILE-1...item27e6e09743

I've got some of the parts you'd need, but not everything. You might check with oldspackrat (Scott) as he's been parting out several of these cars. He's also located in Indiana which is closer than Oregon for you Weight isn't the issue, but the size of the under dash and under hood boxes would likely be spendy to ship. Since your not able to find a parts car there, buying everything from one person may be the next best option.

John

 

You're in the perfect place to find a good parts car, Mike, as many cars will have bad motors and bodies that are nearly disintegrated, but will still have perfectly good A/C components.

The car you're looking for is exactly the car that is a rusted out hulk hauled out of a field, worth little more than scrap value.

Keep your eyes on Craigslist and the local papers for a 4-door hulk with A/C - you should be able to get what you need out of it for very little money, then lose no sleep over junking the rest.

- Eric

 

thanks Eric and John for the responses. Another question that came up is if I find an "old" a/c unit will I have to use R19 instead of r134? That old stuff is very expensive if you can find it at all. Also, do the the underdash components need to be exact to fit the GM A-body or will any old GM product do? The engine compartment components can be off any mid-80's olds I would guess but what about the interior stuff?

 

The original A/C units work best with R12, but can be made to work very nearly as well with R134 by replacing the condenser with a cross-flow type (instead of the original serpentine-flow type) and recalibrating the POA valve (easy to do with a gauge set, see Rob's informative thread on the subject, among others on the web).

R12 is out there, though, if you look for it, and is getting cheaper, if anything, because the demand keeps dropping.

The under-dash components are unique to each Division, they will NOT cross over between A-body lines.

Mid-eighties components are NOT the same as 1970 components. In fact, I would venture to say that every part is different.

- Eric

 

My $0.02. Even if you get a parts car free, there's a pretty good chance after sitting for who knows how long that compressor will be bad. That especially true if it's discharged. Now you'll be buying a compressor, accumulator/dryer. Then the conversion to 134a will add more expense.
If it's not going to be a restoration, consider Vintage or Classic Auto Air.

 

Not to sound argumentative, but just to distinguish between options, the VintageAir-type systems will function well, but will not duplicate the appearance and function (ducting, etc.) of the original system, so if that is what you're looking for, they are not the solution for you.
They will, however, cool very well, at minimal expense of HP and fuel economy.

As far as old A/C components, if the system has been closed, there is a good chance that everything will work, after a flush, but you may need to replace the expansion valve or the POA (neither is super expensive). The compressor shaft seals tend to leak after sitting, but can be replaced, and the rest of the A6 compressor is very durable. Also, used, functional A6 compressors are cheap and plentiful.

Your choice - just depends on which way you want to go.

- Eric

 

Replacement of the compressor and accumulator/dryer is mandatory for any new A/C installation. You'll also want to replace all the rubber parts (hoses, o-rings) as these also deteriorate over time. Personally I'd go with the S6 replacement, which has newer compressor guts in a housing that looks and fits like the old 16-ton A6 compressor. These parts are easily available at any auto parts store (well, a stock replacement compressor is readily available). It's all the other parts that are NOT normal replacement items that will require a parts car to do this economically.

The aftermarket A/C units, while nice in that they are more compact than stock, have their own problems. First, they are all physically smaller than stock, with marginally less cooling and airflow capacity. Second, I haven't seen one yet that has the fresh air function of the factory units. All the aftermarket ones I've seen recirculate internal air only. Third, you can't just to the local auto parts store for replacement parts. Fourth, unless you want the aftermarket control panel and vents hanging down under your dash, you still need a factory control panel and dash vent hardware, which will likely require a parts car. There's also the issue of adapting the aftermarket controls to the factory panel. Yes, there are aftermarket systems available now to make this easy. They are not inexpensive.

The R134 conversion has not been expensive for me.

 

I've got Vintage Air in my 68 corvette and Classic Auto Air in my 72 Olds. Both do a great job even in 100 degree temps.
Yeah, the one downside is no fresh air intake. Hasn't been an issue for me.
I think the VA comes with a new control panel that wont look original.
But the cable operated system with Classics universal took about 10 minutes to modify the original controls, if the original appearance is important.
Oh yeah, I'm just using the 4 dash vents. I wasn't a big fan of the plastic under dash vent assembly.
Just another option.

 

Vintage Air controls look like they belong but not really original, kind of like the retro look aftermarket radios. Here is mine for the 68-69 cars and they have an aluminum face one for 70-72.

 

Have a look at my photobucket site, link is in my sig. I kept my original control panel and dash vents with minimal trouble. I have a convertible, so no lack of fresh air. ;-) Given the costs of oe parts, I am 100% a convert on the conversion... lol
Tim

 

^ Nice red rocket vert!

My A/C is two down at 70mph. Two windows that is. It's interesting to see what you guys stuff in your cars to keep cool. Good luck with your project.

 

Which system did you go with?

 

I used Vintage Air. The underdash part was 66-67 Chevelle factory ac kit, compressor and condenser is the 68 Cutlass kit. Hoses were universal kit and the heater control panel conversion used the Chevelle kit. I custom made the center vent, since mine was cracked like they usually are and it did not offer a simple hose connection to the Vintage Air kit. I was able to keep the factory vents in the dash, so unless you really know 67 Cutlass' you'd never realize it wasn't factory.
Tim

 

Tim,

Did your VA system come with mechanical or electric controls? If electric, I would be very interested in how you adapted the factory controls to work. Sorry for the hi-jack of the original post and PM if you prefer. Still need to see that car around town sometime.

 

The VA electric controls are just slider potentiometers. As long as there's a reasonable throw, they can fit with most existing lever controls. The position of the air flow just wont necessarily follow the labels on the face.
The modification isn't too different from cable controls. I'm surprised Classic Auto Air didn't make an Olds specific kit. Their cable universal kit fit with only 2 custom made pieces. One was an adapter from the round hose to square vent inlet. The other was a bezel for the center vent using 2 of their generic vents.
I obviously didn't care about original appearance but it would have been easy to maintain.

 

The slider pots are calibrated for travel as part of the computer "training", so I arbitrarily picked which slider to use for each function. I have hi res versions of these pictures if you want them. I removed the blower switch completely, but there is a way to keep the switch using resistors if you prefer. I made a custom label for my panel, so it doesn't look bad.

Now the weather is nice, I'll be out more often. I live way south, but I was up around 183, Mopac and Parmer last weekend. Came across a 62? F85 4 door in a driveway, but didn't have time to stop. Have you been to the Saturday night show at Cabelas on south 35? I get there every so often.

Tim

 

Nice work, looks great. It's fairly easy to modify these kits for original controls. Surprising Classic doesn't have an Olds A body kit, and Vintage just came out one less that a year ago.

 

Not always that easy to have a parts car nice & handy like to swap parts over. You can however take massive pictures with your phone for your future reinstall.

 

This parts car idea is just not realistic. Dude is from upstate NY factory in time to find said parts care, good luck finding even a roller for under 2K then ship it from Lord knows where. He will be well over 3K before he turns a wrench. Im also on the east coast and its a good point he will not find a parts car local and def not local & cheap.

 

If you're still accumulating A/C part, than I have a freshly rebuilt POA valve for sale. Got it from Benny over the summer and it needs a new home.

 

Don't forget that the firewall also needs to be revisited. The cutout for AC cars is completely different size and location than non AC

The Cutlass Assembly Manual has great details in picture form to get this job done. And no matter what happens, you'll still have leftover screws and such. The important stuff is fairly easy to deal with, the vacuum lines and vent lines are the things that will be a major PITA, especially the one that goes to the top left corner.