New boy with a old toy!!!
#1
New boy with a old toy!!!
Boy am I excited to find this forum because I'm going to need a ton of help in the coming year(s).
Hello all and I look forward to sharing info about olds of the past. Well, I'll get right to it and explain why I'm here. My father passed away recently and I was fortunate enough to inherit his '64 Olds Cutlass F-85 two door. Not sure if it's a 442. Anyway, I rebuilt the 400 when I was younger, I'm 30 now, and rebuilt the entire motor completely after it threw a couple crank journals by the previous owner to my father. In any case, the motor has been sitting for some 12 years on a stand finished, while my father was supposed to refurbish the exterior and interior of the car. Things got crazy for him and subsequently he didn't do much except remove most of the interior. Now I will be the lucky one to do the rest of the dismantle and restoration. However, I know there will be some pride and sentiment involved in this car if and when I finish it. In any case ,I also own a '69 SS Camaro and have experience with muscle cars to some degree, so hopefully it helps me out here. My questions basically are:
Thanks in advance for any info y'all may have as I appreciate any advice from folks that know their way around olds cars and especially cutlasses. Love the internet cause I probably wouldn't take on something like this without a forum such as this one. It makes life that much easier.
Dom
Hello all and I look forward to sharing info about olds of the past. Well, I'll get right to it and explain why I'm here. My father passed away recently and I was fortunate enough to inherit his '64 Olds Cutlass F-85 two door. Not sure if it's a 442. Anyway, I rebuilt the 400 when I was younger, I'm 30 now, and rebuilt the entire motor completely after it threw a couple crank journals by the previous owner to my father. In any case, the motor has been sitting for some 12 years on a stand finished, while my father was supposed to refurbish the exterior and interior of the car. Things got crazy for him and subsequently he didn't do much except remove most of the interior. Now I will be the lucky one to do the rest of the dismantle and restoration. However, I know there will be some pride and sentiment involved in this car if and when I finish it. In any case ,I also own a '69 SS Camaro and have experience with muscle cars to some degree, so hopefully it helps me out here. My questions basically are:
- Where can I get a repair manual for this car showing details of every nook and cranny?
- Where can I retrieve a catalog for cutlasses that have reproduction OEM parts to buy? I used Classic Industries for my camaro and was wondering if there is a similar entity for Cutlasses of the past or if there is a NOS dealer out there.
- Where can I find on the car if it was and is a true 442? Please explain in detail on the car and what the numbers will mean if one could.
- How do I know if the numbers for the motor match? Not sure they will as I'm not certain this 400 came from this car, but I would like to know beforehand.
- What are the admins handles here? I can't find Dennis Urban's username in the member list for instance and from a previous thread someone mentioned he has a '64 and is very knowledgable about these things.
Thanks in advance for any info y'all may have as I appreciate any advice from folks that know their way around olds cars and especially cutlasses. Love the internet cause I probably wouldn't take on something like this without a forum such as this one. It makes life that much easier.
Dom
Last edited by dmcianfa; August 31st, 2010 at 07:03 AM. Reason: grammar errors
#2
Hi welcome to the site. 65 was the first year for the 400 so if the car is a 64 then the engine didn't come with that car.
You will need a service manual and fisher body manual. Check ebay first.
Places to buy parts. https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ent-parts.html
You will need a service manual and fisher body manual. Check ebay first.
Places to buy parts. https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ent-parts.html
#3
Welcome to CO. Not familiar with Dennis Urban but don't know all the member's names.
1.check ebay
2.Fusick, Kanter, Year One are just three I know of.
3.Not sure if you can from the vin and engine id. Someone with more experience can chime in on that.
4.Omicron is the other admin, his name is Paul.
1.check ebay
2.Fusick, Kanter, Year One are just three I know of.
3.Not sure if you can from the vin and engine id. Someone with more experience can chime in on that.
4.Omicron is the other admin, his name is Paul.
#4
I'm not even certain it's a 64, that is just my guess. I can't remember if my dad said 64 or 65. I have to find the title yet. Any clues that differentiate a 64 from a 65? I suppose the VIN will relay this, but what part of the VIN?
#5
As mentioned by the others, a chassis service manual is a must. I just checked eBay for a 1964 manual but only found the "soft" version - compact disc http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OLDSM...item35ab8056e1
In regard to #4, I can only say with confidence that for my car, 1970, you can determine if the engine is numbers matching by finding the code stamped near front of the engine on the driver's side. By "front" I mean towards the water pump. Compare the last few digits (don't recall how many) to the VIN. Others can chime in if mid-60's engine id's are different.
#8
I don't have any pics on me now being the car itself is still at my fathers about 150 miles away. However, I thought I remember the trunk lid having an "oldsmobile" lettering on it. hmmm. I'm going up there this weekend, so I'll have to take some pics and post them. Say, when you say the driver door pillar, do you mean where the hinges for the door sit or do you mean where the windshield meets the dash?
#11
How do I know if it's a 4-4-2 as well? I don't recall seeing the emblems on it. I know it has to be 4 barrel, 4 on the floor, and dual exhaust, but aside from that? I'm sure this car may have lost some decaling due to deer collisions over time, so I would like to be sure it is a 442 or not.
Last edited by dmcianfa; August 31st, 2010 at 08:53 AM. Reason: added
#12
Depends on if it is a 64 or 65.^4 will have small 442 emblems on the front fenders,for starters.65 will have the fake air inlets on the rear quarters,just behind the doors.Dash emblems are less likely to suffer deer damage,check there also.If you find any emblems,then you can dig deeper.First year and emblems,then we can go from there.No use crawling under and around the car if it can be found out by the major details first. And congrats on getting your fathers car.My son is looking forward to getting mine when I am done with it. But I plan on taking it with me! ---bil
#13
Welcome!
Do post some pics when you get them - things will really come together then.
Service manuals can be had at the places to get parts already mentioned.
A great Camaro parts source is Firewheel Classics - just a mile from my house. Wonderful people - they order Olds parts for me so I do not have to pay shipping!
Best of luck and we'll see you around the forum!
Be sure to use the "search" function here - it will be your best friend when looking for certain topics!
Do post some pics when you get them - things will really come together then.
Service manuals can be had at the places to get parts already mentioned.
A great Camaro parts source is Firewheel Classics - just a mile from my house. Wonderful people - they order Olds parts for me so I do not have to pay shipping!
Best of luck and we'll see you around the forum!
Be sure to use the "search" function here - it will be your best friend when looking for certain topics!
#14
I wish there was a parts place like that around me, but maybe I just need to look harder. I'll take some pics this week, but I must warn you they won't be pretty!!! LOL. Lot's of work needs to be done on it. In any case, can anyone say how rare of a car the F-85's are? More rare in a 442 version? More of a collectible than camaros, firebirds, mustangs, etc.... It seems everyone and their brother has one version or another of those. I would like to be different at a car show or classic ride I suppose. Can anyone attest to the rareness?
#16
#17
A 1964 Cutlass/442 looks like this:
A 1965 looks like this:
There is no "numbers matching" VIN derivative stamping on the engine. That was not used until the 1968 model year. The only way to tell if you have the original engine is if you have the Protect-O-Plate that was provided for warranty work. The POP will list the engine unit number stamping and tie it to the vehicle VIN. Note that the engine unit number was only stamped on one head, so all that "proves" is that the particular head is "numbers matching".
A 1965 looks like this:
There is no "numbers matching" VIN derivative stamping on the engine. That was not used until the 1968 model year. The only way to tell if you have the original engine is if you have the Protect-O-Plate that was provided for warranty work. The POP will list the engine unit number stamping and tie it to the vehicle VIN. Note that the engine unit number was only stamped on one head, so all that "proves" is that the particular head is "numbers matching".
#18
Looks more like the '65 in the picture if my memory serves me correctly. Do you know where the POP is? I can find the engine stamp easily enough with the motor and heads being out of the car and sitting on a stand.
#19
The Protect-O-Plate is a plastic card usually included with the owners manual "wallet". It's not attached to the car. Go to images.google.com to find examples.
Edit: go to this link to see an example of one from 1971 https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...g-id-olds.html. The picture is about half way down.
Also, not sure if the protect-o-plate's were plastic in the mid 60's. They might have been metal?
Edit: go to this link to see an example of one from 1971 https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...g-id-olds.html. The picture is about half way down.
Also, not sure if the protect-o-plate's were plastic in the mid 60's. They might have been metal?
Last edited by stlbluesbrother; August 31st, 2010 at 10:16 AM. Reason: add info
#21
The Protect-O-Plate is a plastic card usually included with the owners manual "wallet". It's not attached to the car. Go to images.google.com to find examples.
Edit: go to this link to see an example of one from 1971 https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...g-id-olds.html. The picture is about half way down.
Also, not sure if the protect-o-plate's were plastic in the mid 60's. They might have been metal?
Edit: go to this link to see an example of one from 1971 https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...g-id-olds.html. The picture is about half way down.
Also, not sure if the protect-o-plate's were plastic in the mid 60's. They might have been metal?
#23
All great info fellas. I can't wait to learn more about this car. I have some intricate knowledge about the motor, but that's about it. I also know the gentlemen that sold it to my father way back when, so I can always go to him for the POP cause I doubt it's in the glove box with the car. Now that I've been talking and seeing pictures more it is most likely it's a '65 442 sport coupe due to the fact that it doesn't have posts. I wish it was a manual 4 speed to grind through some gears, but I suppose I can put a M-20 in it if I really wanted to and add a pedal. Or I could keep the hydra-matic, which I think is in it, and spring for a stall convertor. Hmmm. Last I know everything in terms of powertrain, brakes, and electrical was in working order, but you never know with time.
#24
#25
#26
It is the posts that make the differance.If you roll down the front window and open the door,if there is nothing there,it is a hardtop,If there is a top and sides there,it is a post coupe.Hardtop and convertible have the same doors.All are nice! ---bil
#27
This car is blue, but not sure what kind of blue. I'm kinda wondering if I keep it the same color what it is adn what to tell the guy who does my painting. I would also like to hear what other colors they offered in this era for Olds cutlasses. I wouldn't mind a nice blue or green pearl, but would entertain the thought of keeping it as original as possible too. Hmmm, so many decisions to make down the road.
#29
If it's an original automatic it will be a 2-speed Jetaway, which is not the same as a PowerGlide. Jetaway has electric downshift and a few other differences from PowerGlide. Some 1966 442 got TurboHydraMatic but not many. It was still fairly uncommon even by 1967.
You're already learning that different Divisions used different nomenclature for different bodystyles. Chev called their hardtops "Sport Coupe" or "Sport Sedan". In B-O-P world, Sport Coupes are post cars. Olds hardtops are Holidays, though they did call a few early 60s four-windowed four-door hardtops "Holiday Sport Sedan".
Confusing, yes?
You're already learning that different Divisions used different nomenclature for different bodystyles. Chev called their hardtops "Sport Coupe" or "Sport Sedan". In B-O-P world, Sport Coupes are post cars. Olds hardtops are Holidays, though they did call a few early 60s four-windowed four-door hardtops "Holiday Sport Sedan".
Confusing, yes?
#30
It's definetely a hard top then. But, I don't understand how the window when rolled down clears the back portion (rear seat)area. is there still a seperate window for the rear portion or something just no post between the two. Maybe there is no post, but there is a weather strip portion that comes up with the rear window. I think that is what my camaro does. I can't wait to look at this car this weekend to view all this stuff.
#33
Welcome to CO fellow Wisconsinite Dom. This is a great site, and has even better people from what I have seen in the short time I've been around.
Congrats on getting a great car, and my condolences on the passing of your father.
What part of the state are you from?
Best of luck to you in your restoration.
Congrats on getting a great car, and my condolences on the passing of your father.
What part of the state are you from?
Best of luck to you in your restoration.
#34
Welcome to CO fellow Wisconsinite Dom. This is a great site, and has even better people from what I have seen in the short time I've been around.
Congrats on getting a great car, and my condolences on the passing of your father.
What part of the state are you from?
Best of luck to you in your restoration.
Congrats on getting a great car, and my condolences on the passing of your father.
What part of the state are you from?
Best of luck to you in your restoration.
#35
65 color chart,buy it now 5.99,e-bay
http://compare.ebay.com/1965-oldsmob...e/330442944716
Somewhere here I have one,but I am not sure how it would come through as far as exact color goes. I do know the red is the same formular for chevy since at least 1937,though! ---bil
http://compare.ebay.com/1965-oldsmob...e/330442944716
Somewhere here I have one,but I am not sure how it would come through as far as exact color goes. I do know the red is the same formular for chevy since at least 1937,though! ---bil
#36
There is also a chart that tells what color interior can go with what color exterior,and also what color vinyl top or convertible top.You couldn't just order anything,it had to look good! After,it IS an Oldsmobile! ---bil
#37
You can never mistake your car for another one in a parking lot when it's green with a red interior.
#38
Ok. Got a chance to go to my dad's house this past weekend and get some info as well as some pictures. Wife has the camera right now, so pictures will come later, so here we go. This is the cowl tag info as it reads. Again, I have a photo of it too, but I'll just type it out. Looks like it's actually a '64. Any indication from the cowl tag it was the 442 or pursuit model? Deciphering this is my goal here.
OLDSMOBILE DIV. GENERAL MOTORS CORP.
07C LANSING, MICHIGAN
STYLE 64-3237 BODY LA 23579
TRIM 963 PAINT W-W
ACC. 2G
07C LANSING, MICHIGAN
STYLE 64-3237 BODY LA 23579
TRIM 963 PAINT W-W
ACC. 2G
THIS CAR FINISHED WITH
Magic Mirror ACRYLIC LACQUER
BODY BY FISHER
Magic Mirror ACRYLIC LACQUER
BODY BY FISHER
Last edited by dmcianfa; September 7th, 2010 at 07:28 PM.
#40
Ok. Got a chance to go to my dad's house this past weekend and get some info as well as some pictures. Wife has the camera right now, so pictures will come later, so here we go. This is the cowl tag info as it reads. Again, I have a photo of it too, but I'll just type it out. Looks like it's actually a '64. Any indication from the cowl tag it was the 442 or pursuit model? Deciphering this is my goal here.
OLDSMOBILE DIV. GENERAL MOTORS CORP.
07C LANSING, MICHIGAN
STYLE 64-3237 BODY LA 23579
TRIM 963 PAINT W-W
ACC. 2G
07C LANSING, MICHIGAN
STYLE 64-3237 BODY LA 23579
TRIM 963 PAINT W-W
ACC. 2G
THIS CAR FINISHED WITH
Magic Mirror ACRYLIC LACQUER
BODY BY FISHER
Magic Mirror ACRYLIC LACQUER
BODY BY FISHER
2G is floor auto with console, so its not a 64 442.