Just so all knows, I am new and also new to Oldsmobile. I have never owned one and I really don't think I ever drove one before. Sad...I know.

A couple of weeks ago, I bought my wife a '64 Olds convertible. I call it a 2/10, meaning that it is a 2 footer, but if you spend more than 10 minutes looking at it, you see what is wrong. Not knowing anything about Olds, I maybe should have passed on it, but it is a very decent car, although some things have been changed. The person that had it, owned it for 7 years. He bought it off a person that restored it, or otherwise pieced it together. It's not to the level that I would do a restoration and I do have a few rust issues to contend with on some inner panels underneath. That is the simple part. Now my questions.........

Are there any post on here about the basics of a '64 Olds Convertible? Wheel base dimensions, seating dimensions, and so on? The reason I ask if there is a blueprint type of dimensions is that I barely fit in it, and have to drive it with my arm hanging over the steering wheel. I'm 240#'s but I know things are tighter than stock.

One thing I am going to do is order a steering column off of IDIDIT because I am almost certain that this one is wrong. It has a three spoked wood wheel and it is 9" back from the dash to the wheel. IDIDIT has a direct fit for the '64 Cutlass, non polished for around $400.

I also found the floorpans have been replaced at one time and I think that may be why my knees are up in the dash. I'm a machinist and Toolmaker by trade, so I am going to make some seat relocator bars to move the seats back. My wife is 5'3" and she is fitting tight in the passenger seat and she's a little thing.

This In a few weeks, I am going to park it for the season and start working on it. I have to move my mill and lathe to the other side of my garage and the Olds will go up on cribbing or on Jackstands. I don't like the idea of the suspension hanging for a few months, so I'll probably make some cribbing up. Then I'll strip the interior out and get things the way I want or need them. I have new door panels to put on, it already has new carpet, new exhaust, and other odds and ends. The console will come out and get powdercoated. I also have to add some more speakers other than the single dash speaker. It does have a new stereo from Custom Audio, just no speakers for it.

I'm not a total restoration sort of person, so it will have some billet added to it, but it will be tasteful and not a bunch of gaudy looking stuff.

That brings me to the engine. The engine in it is not stock, but when I looked up the numbers, it is a '77-'80 350 engine. It's running a 4bbl carb right now. I imagine that it is a low horsepower engine. For a decent street car, what do most recommend? Would it be worth it to rebuild the 350 and get it punched out some, or maybe go for something like a 455 and rebuild a 455 stock? I know that a big block is way more expensive to build. If I rebuild the 350 engine in it now, how far can it be punched out without getting into heating problems and such? And when it comes to the heads, are the cast iron heads with a redo fine, or should they be set aside for something better? Possibly a different year of cast iron head?

I want a car that will stand up and take notice and that will sound good with some cam in it. It's also a possibility that I can find an older engine before they came out with all of the smog regulations that would be cheaper and better to build over the engine in it now. And in a way, I would sort of prefer to find another engine, build it, then swap it after the other is running and done. The engine I have in it now does not smoke on startup and doesn't smoke when nailing it. So in building another, it would make things more easy without having the car tore down.

So any help I can get will be greatly appreciated. Either having an answer, or pointing me in the direction will help very much. I know that it is sort of a sacrilege to put a bastard motor in an Olds, so I don't want to do that. It may not have the stock Olds engine, but I want to keep it strictly Olds. And like I said, I'm not a purist, so having a numbers matching car is not a particular problem. But I want a decent runner that can make a little noise and possibly leave some rubber here and there and everyone likes that little "rumpity rump" sound too!!!!!!

Thanks in advance for any answers. Hopefully I'll get some Oldsmobile schooling this winter, then be ready for the car shows and cruise-ins next year when the weather breaks!!!

 

Hi Kevin
I've got a couple 1964 project cars, one a convertible with the interior partly disassembled. I could try and take some photos with measurements of the seat brackets, steering wheel, etc. if that would help. If your tall that could be a problem, but since you say your wife at 5'3" is having trouble fitting then yes it does sound like the past owner may have done something wrong with the floorpan swap.

Drivetrain depends on what you want. A member here named jag1886 built a 1965 with a 350, TH200 R4, 3.90 posi and was happy with the combination of power and gas mileage on the highway. You might talk with him to get more details of it if you want to stay with a small block. The 455 would fit too with minor tweaks if you want to have more grunt. I do favor the 1960's and early 70's engines, although that's my personal preference.

When I get around to it... I've got three project cars that are very similar. A 1964 Cutlass convertible with a 455/automatic. A 1964 Cutlass I plan to install a 350/4spd into, and a 1965 442 with the 400/4spd. Each will also have different rear end gears, so I think it would be interesting to compare the power/drivability between them. But don't wait on me... I suspect I won't have time to do all the project cars I've drug home until I retire!

Is the 3 spoke wheel real wood or simulated wood? If it's a factory wheel from the late 1960's there's pretty good demand for those. Do you think the column in the car is stock?

John

 

John.....thank you very much for your reply. I'll be going out to the shop in just a short and I'll take some pics and measurements for you to see what I am talking about and where I need some measurements from for comparison.

As far as the steering column, I think it has been swapped out because nothing is fitting right. I can see down into the column because of a large gap from the steering wheel to the next portion on the column.

About the steering wheel, I don't know if it is wood, or simulated wood. Again, I'll get a pic or two of it also. It's a large diameter wheel. I keep thinking it is off of a Pontiac, but I could be wrong.

Like I said.....I don't know squat about Oldsmobiles and never owned one before, have never drove one, and when my dad and I had a body shop, only worked on a few, and at that time, I really didn't pay too much attention to the inside. I'd like to find some things out about it now, and then in a month it will be off the road for the winter and up on cribbing or jackstands. I have a couple of rust holes underneath that needs fixed, the convertible top needs adjusted, windows need adjusted, and just a bunch of little nitpicky items to be gone over.

If I decide to keep the smallblock 350 in it, then I will probably find another one that runs, and tear it down and rebuild it along with headwork and punching it out some. I know from my times of going to the drag races years ago, some of the Oldsmobiles can be some serious business on the track. Most I saw though were around the '70-'72 year.

Anyways.....I'll have you some pictures shortly, and thanks again

 

John.....thank you very much for your reply. I'll be going out to the shop in just a short and I'll take some pics and measurements for you to see what I am talking about and where I need some measurements from for comparison.

As far as the steering column, I think it has been swapped out because nothing is fitting right. I can see down into the column because of a large gap from the steering wheel to the next portion on the column.

About the steering wheel, I don't know if it is wood, or simulated wood. Again, I'll get a pic or two of it also. It's a large diameter wheel. I keep thinking it is off of a Pontiac, but I could be wrong.

Like I said.....I don't know squat about Oldsmobiles and never owned one before, have never drove one, and when my dad and I had a body shop, only worked on a few, and at that time, I really didn't pay too much attention to the inside. I'd like to find some things out about it now, and then in a month it will be off the road for the winter and up on cribbing or jackstands. I have a couple of rust holes underneath that needs fixed, the convertible top needs adjusted, windows need adjusted, and just a bunch of little nitpicky items to be gone over.

If I decide to keep the smallblock 350 in it, then I will probably find another one that runs, and tear it down and rebuild it along with headwork and punching it out some. I know from my times of going to the drag races years ago, some of the Oldsmobiles can be some serious business on the track. Most I saw though were around the '70-'72 year.

Anyways.....I'll have you some pictures shortly, and thanks again.

Here are a couple pics that I have just showing the car. The rust in the trunk lip is the only rust on the whole car, and that will be addressed this winter.

I'll get you the pics with the measurements here shortly.

 

Hard to tell about the steering column from the picture. A couple of closer shots from the drivers and passenger sides would help.

 

That was just a couple of pics I had. I have the others finally uploaded to Imageshack. My computer in the garage shuts down when I try to load anything from here. I'll see if I can explain what each one is.


This is measuring straight back from the dash pad to the steering wheel. It is right at 9"


This is showing roughly 6" from the bottom of the steering wheel to the seat. The steering wheel is 15" in diameter


Measuring from the dimmer switch to the front floor bolt for the seat is right at 26".


Measuring horizontally from the back of the front bucket seat, to the front of the back seat is 9". This is with the bucket seat pushed all of the way back on the track.


I almost forgot to add....this is the space on the column to the steering wheel. It has a 5/8" gap in there. Either the wheel is an aftermarket wheel with the wrong adapter, or the wheel and column are frankenstein'd together from different pieces. I don't know.

John had asked if the steering wheel is wood. From looking at it, I am going to say it is. I had a picture of a '67 Pontiac GTO and it sure looks like the same steering wheel that was in it.

I went online and did a Bing search and here is the picture I had. This is a '67 GTO and the wheel looks like the one in the Olds. The one in the Olds though has the Olds Rocket insignia in the horn button and the horn button sits a little taller, but the wheels itself are identical

 

That looks like the stock steering column. The steering wheel is an aftermarket and looks like it's not seated all the way or installed wrong by the gap between it and the column.

 

Well...the horn doesn't work anyways and the signal cancel doesn't work either. I guess now is as good time as any to yank it off and see whats going on then. If it's an aftermarket wheel, I may put a different one on that is a little flatter as far as the dish of the wheel and maybe go with a few inches in diameter smaller. The way it is now, you can't palm the wheel going around a corner.

If John checks back in, I'll see what he has in the way of dimensions on his '64's to see if everything else is setting correctly as far as the seat. I think it was OPG that has seat bracket relocators. I picked up a piece of Cold Rolled Steel today and may just machine my own up to move the seat back some. I know that if the car had a 4 speed, there would really be no way I could drive it as cramped as I am already.

And like I said before, I have a lot to learn about an Olds. I was always a Ford guy, then I went to strictly Chevy's. Due to some unfortunate circumstances with my parents wrecking their vehicle, I was a good guy and helped them out by selling my '93 Silverado that I just finished up a few months before. I had a .060 over 350 in it. I traded it in for an '02 Blazer XTreme for them. I needed a truck and traded the XTreme off when I got it back after they went into a nursing home. And of all things, I traded it in on a Dodge Ram So these last few years have put me in vehicles I know the least about. LOL!!!!

I do want to thank you for taking your time to answer my questions. Hopefully someday I can return the favor and answer somethings for you.

 

Let's back up. I'm 6' 2", with very long legs, and I have no problems fitting in the 1964-67 A-body cars. Your first problem is that the aftermarket steering wheel has way more dish than stock, which puts the rim of the wheel closer to your chest. Get a flatter wheel to solve that problem. Second, if the floor pans have been replaced, it's possible that the seats are not installed in the stock location. As a result, they may not slide as far back as possible.

Unless you have money to burn, spend some time figuring out what you have BEFORE throwing money at aftermarket parts that may or may not fix a problem.

If you DO have money to burn, I'll PM you my mailing address.

 

Small block Chevy swapped in there 'eh? Still not too late to go Olds for the Olds!

They simply adapted the motor mount with a kit so it's easy to go back. Retaining the "torque wins races" legacy of Olds engines is cool. Okay, your original 330 was kinda wimpy so an Olds 350 - 455 would be shall we say, acceptable? A healthy cam, proper intake/carb, fired with modern ignition and she'll scoot.

Not a purist here and Chevy engines are fine I'm sure. But I do so enjoy my fresh 70's Olds 350 with #6 heads, a lumpy cam, an Edelbrock RPM intake/600 CFM carb spraying out a sweet 9-12 MPG. With dual Flowmasters she pulls hard! I swear you can feel the torque thing when these devils can breath.

An automatic trans has to be BOP (buick olds pontiac) for the bell housing fit. Cores are cheap or often free. My 350/350 (that would be Olds) build was on the cheap but the pay-off was great. Would recommend having lots of ho-hum Chev 350's in the past.

When you open the hood revealing a 455 or big block Olds, it's always a treat. So, just sayin', you shouldn't rule out going back to her origin just because someone else had a good idea.

 

That's what I'm trying to do. I don't have money to burn, and I'm not sure what I said that makes you think I do That's why I'm trying to find out some dimensions on where things are at, or where they should be at. The only thing I really said was that if the steering column is wrong, IDIDIT has a direct fit steering column for a '64 Olds. If I have the correct column in the car now, then I will swap out the steering wheel, for one without the deep as dish as this one has.

The car doesn't have a 350 Chevy in it. That was in my Silverado I swapped out. The '64 Olds Cutlass has an Olds engine in it, but it is from a '77-'80 Olds engine by the numbers on the block. I fully intend to keep it all Olds. What I want to do though is find another Olds engine to build up while we can still drive this one. I don't want to pull this one to build as I think it may have already been rebuilt at some point, but the owner that I got if off of didn't have a clue. But even though it's not the original engine, it's still an Olds engine in there.

As far as my comment of not being a purist when it comes to things, I'm talking about general things on the car. I'm not one to keep everything bone stock, so I'll have some billet and such on it. But as far as the heartbeat of the car, the drive-train from front to back will be Olds, thru and thru, although it may not be a '64 numbers matching car. It will also at sometime go from drum brakes to having disc brakes on it. We'll have this car for many years to come, but it will get modernized somewhat, yet it will have the Olds name on it on all of the components. I have no intention of dropping a Chevy motor in it or a Chevy trans or differential in it.

 

Well, for starters, this:

You don't know if the column you have is correct or not, but your first post says that you are going to buy the most expensive replacement possible. I'm skeptical of IDIDIT columns, as the ones I have seen are not direct-fit. They use later model GM column components and typically are set up for the larger 1969-up steering wheel hubs. Maybe they've expanded their line since I last looked, but if your column was incorrect, I'd start with finding a correct 1964 A-body replacement.

 

You know....I didn't sign up here to get into an internet feud. I signed up to the site to try and figure out what I need to do to fit into the car with the least problems. From the spare parts I have got with the car, a lot of indications point towards things being replaced.

As far as IDIDIT, the one column I looked at was $400 and not an $1100 fully polished column. The IDIDIT's that I looked at are supposed to be a direct replacement.

So if you can find me a stock column, or tell me how I can find out whether mine is stock or not with some measurements, then by all means tell me or point me in the direction to find out instead of jumping in and trying to pick apart what I said. Around here you can't find a '64 Cutlass, let alone parts. So by all means, point me in a direction I can get some answers, or maybe answer some for me.. I posted some pics of the measurements that I took and mentioned that I don't fit into the car comfortably, yet all you want to do is try to bust my ***** because I said I may buy an IDIDIT? So WTF is that about?

And no, I don't know if the column is stock or not, but if I can't find out some dimensions, or any other info that I asked about, then yea, I may start out fixing what I think is wrong.

So Joe....can you give me some info, or you just want to pick apart what I have said? I came on here to learn about the Olds, and what may be wrong, but didn't join to put up with bullshit remarks from someone that doesn't appear to want to help but wants to jump on someone that may have to spend some money. I'm no different than anyone else. I'm on Disability, and I don't have extra money to toss away. If you can't help me out then just shut the hell up. And no, I don't take too kindly towards your attitude with me than you do with mine towards you. Besides that, what would make a difference if I spend a few hundred or not? It's my wifes car. It's not like I'm working on your car spending your money anyways.

 

Look, I don't know you, nor do I care what you spend your money on. I'm sorry your first post was written in a way that could be misinterpreted. I'm not here to ridicule you, but we get many, many newbie posts where the O.P. simply throws new parts at a car without first figuring out what is wrong.

I don't have your personal dimensions, nor do I know what you consider to be a comfortable driving position. You've told us the car has had work done to it before you got it, but without seeing the car in person or getting a far more detailed description, we don't really know what that work is or if anything was changed from stock. I'm not busting any part of your anatomy here, simply pointing out the facts from this end of the interweb.

Yeah, we want to help. We are not clairvoyant. The best advice I can provide from the information you've posted is that you need to find someone with a stock 64 Cutlass and compare that car with yours side-by-side to see how close to the original dimensions yours is. Again, I don't know you. My body shape fits, yours may not, even in a totally stock car. Once you determine if your car has the original critical dimensions or not, then you can make an informed decision as to how to proceed.

That's how I'd address this problem. You are free to do whatever you like.

One other bit of advice would be to grow a slightly thicker skin. Nothing I posted was intended to be a personal attack on you or your car, but again, from this end of the internet it sure appears that you took it that way. I'm sorry if I said something that was inappropriate.

 

There are a few guys that deal with parts there are two that come to mind with 64/65 parts
2blu442 (Oregon ) JATA (Florida )

 

Joe...For what it's worth, I am not thin skinned. But if you read through what I posted, you will see where I said I will order a steering column off of IDIDIT if this one in the car is wrong. You will also see where I said that i am asking for some help in figuring things out. If you look above, you will see where I took pics and posted up dimensions as to what I have. You will also see where 2blu442 said that he has three Cutlasses or 442's and that I am waiting for an answer for some dimensions.

If I can't get some answers on this Olds site which was recommended to me, then yes, I WILL have to throw some parts at it. You may be 6'2" with long legs and fit comfortably. I'm 5'11", 240# and no way fit comfortably in the Olds. The steering wheel is in my chest, and my legs are cramped up.

So I really don't know what else you need as far as an explanation for things? I asked for dimensions, I showed what dimensions I have, and instead of you giving me some help, it seems like you're giving me some **** about it. How helpful is that?

Like I said, I didn't join looking for a rash of crap about things, I joined under a recommendation that this was a good and helpful site. So far, it's not looking that way from some seasoned members. And if you feel that I am wrong in feeling that way, I'm sorry for coming to your domain. I don't know whether you want to help out with some answers or just want to bust on a newbie. And if I stepped on your tyoes somehow, I apologize. But with your remarks to me, I can see where new members won't feel too welcome.

 

Hey forgot welcome !!! Love the pics I like the color as well

Another good sight is the (w29 board ) slow not real active but very knowledgable folks there

 

Oldstata...Thank you. I will send them a message by PM so as to not tie up a thread.

 

I think your steering column is the right one and it's your seat that's not adjusting right, I'm 6'5 and I fit in my car nicely. The problem with your horn and blinkers are probably the fact the steering wheel nut came loose and the spring is pushing it forward. You'll get it figured out.

 

Well, the steering wheel isn't correct so that would be one step to take. Mine is about 7 1/2 inches from the dash pad, and about 5 inches from where it meets the column to the outside closest to the driver. Although mine is 16 inches across which is larger than yours. Here's a couple pictures.

P9291614.jpg

P9291622.jpg

Then the dimmer switch to the left front bolt sounds pretty close to your distance. Here's some pictures of that.

P9291617.jpg

P9291618.jpg

P9291616.jpg

But just to double check the floorpan location, here's measurements from where the rocker panel meets the rear quarter panel, then the seat belt and seat bolt holes.

P9291625.jpg

P9291626.jpg

P9291627.jpg

P9291624.jpg

You had mentioned that even the passengerside was tight. It really should be similar to the 1967 GTO picture you posted. so somethings not right. Another possibility is that the bucket seats or seat adjustment rails could be from a different car. The full sized cars had similar adjustment rails in the front, but the rear mounts were different. If these measurements look OK, maybe you could check the seat rails. I've got a loose bucket seat I could take photos of if that would help. John

 

Column is stock. The steering wheel is not, and has a deep offset causing it to be closer to you than the stock wheel. Put the stock wheel on it and see what happens.

 

I have that same gap from steering wheel (OE) to column on my 65 and its caused by the lower bearing being shot.

 

I'm restoring a 64 cutlass convert, presently working on the mechanical side. Regarding the seat positioning, I agree your seat rails are not positioned correctly and the deep dish steering wheel does not help. I'm 6'2" and my girlfriend is 5'10", and we both fit well in the car. I would try a rocket 350, it's a good, reliable engine. Here's a guy I've gotten parts from, he specializes in oldsmobiles: Jim (336)766-7845 (info@classic-olds.com). Good luck on your restoration!!!

 

Thanks to all.

2blu442, thanks for the measurements and the pictures. As soon as I gt out to the shop today, I am going to pull the steering wheel. One thing I didn't get in the spare parts with the car was a stock wheel, but I did receive another steering wheel that is basically flat with four spokes. Not sure if it's aftermarket or if it off of another car. I'll dig it out and see what sort of shapes it's in when I get into the shop today.

Thanks again to all.

 

Well, it's pretty much been determined that the steering column is original to the car. So I can keep it and not worry about swapping it out.

It's also been determined that the steering wheel is an aftermarket wheel with too deep of a dish. I have a docs appointment out of town tomorrow, so I'm going to swing by Jegs afterwards and see what they have in a little smaller diameter with a flatter dish to it than the deeper dish I have on the wheel that is in there now.

Thanks to JATA, I may have a turn signal mechanism coming my way if he has one to match the one I have that I can buy.

I'm going to reassemble the steering for now so I can move it in and out of the garage, until I get some newer parts. This afternoon, I am going to pull the drivers seat out and see whats up with it. Hopefully I can get it to slide back further than what it does. If so, then I may be able to enjoy the car for a few weeks before it gets tucked away for winter.

I do have to get my mill and lathe relocated to the other side of my garage so I have some room for both my truck and the Cutlass up on stands.

And again, thanks to all for the help. Someday, I'll be able to return the favor. And as I said, I have a Lagun Mill (same as a Bridgeport) and I have a JET 13 x 40 Lathe, so if anyone needs some machining work....let me know.

 

Kevin I sent you a PM if you need any other help with a 64 -65 let me know, in the meantime look up my post in major project- 64 F-85 post car. lots of pictures and notes.

 

I haven't been on in a while, but I do need a little info if anyone has it. snd I did also PM 2blu442.......The floor has been replaced in the Cutlass with a floor that was out of a bench seat car. The bucket seat adapter brackets, are the cheap sheet metal style. I got with OPGI about a different set of brackets and OPGI said I needed two pair of the formed up style of bracket. And by two pair, I mean 4 brackets total. I'm thinking I only need one pair (2 brackets) and mount them inward next to the console on each side of the console.

Am I correct in thinking this, or do I need to mount 4 brackets on the floor?

Also, with the floor being replaced, it is adequate, but not a professional job as were the brackets. Along with that, I am not real certain that the floor with the existing bolt holes are in the correct location. Is there any sort of diagram or something I can go by to make sure the new brackets are in the correct location?

I also solved the steering wheel / column problem by getting a slightly smaller wheel with a much shallower dish to it. The

And while I had the interior out, the shifter handle mechanism is fairly well busted up, so I am making a pistol grip style of shifter handle which I'll post up as soon as it's completed. Instead of the roller wheel like is in the stock "T" handle, this will have a simple plunger button on top. It's not quite finished yet, so i don't want to post a pic until it is.

So if anyone can point me in the right direction for a diagram or dimensions for the correct placement for the seat brackets, it will be greatly appreciated, and thank you in advance.

 

I got the bracket situation straightened out. I only need the two inward brackets, the outer tracks bolt directly to the floor.

The steering situation was a clusterfuck of a mess, and something still isn't right, but luckily I have a mill and a lathe. I had to seriously alter the adapter to get the wheel close enough to the column. Care had to be done to make sure I still retained the splines, then I had to open the cup up so it would go over the adapter and set close to the column. Along with that, I had to make 2 spacers so the turn signal cancellation mechanism would work correctly. I also bought another wheel off of Ebay that has a minimal dish to it. So all in all, I probably gained 4" just with the wheel alterations.

I'll post the pics of how the wheel fits now. I'm also putting up a pic of a new shifter handle I'm making. Don't mind the holes in the side as this is just a prototype to get everything fit up. The finished piece will have my wife's name in each side of the handle, filled in with black paint, then polished and powdercoated clear. The original "T" handle, the mechanism inside is shot, soo there was no positive detents that would lock in. The previous owner, or someone had added a setscrew in to hold down the spring loaded portion in the shifter shaft itself. Not a good thing. You at least want Park to have a positive detent do prevent accidental kicking out of gear.

My next dilemma is finding seat track. As far as I know, the '64 is '64-'65 specific. OPGI only carries them for '66 and up. I have sent numerous e-mails out searching for a good set of track to no avail, and no one is repopping the seat tracks. If anyone on here has a set, or knows someone who has a set for both bucket seats, PLEASE drop me a PM.

Also, if the shifter handle works out the way I want it to, I may be making up a few more if anyone is interested. And like I said, the two holes in the side will be plugged, and once polished up, will not be noticeable. And I have the capabilities to have some engraving done. I can't do it myself other than the artwork, but I have a good friend that can CNC anything into it. Plus the internals won't break down like they do on the "T" handle, which what I gather is a common problem. I will go back when I have free time though and rebuild the guts for the "T" Handle just so I have the original if I want to sell it, or pit it back on someday.










This is how the other wheel fit. I have three adapters for an aftermarket wheel, and all three have come from different companies for different years, or at least one of them was. If the steering column is correct, then I'm not so sure about the shaft to the steering box. I would have had to shorten the shaft up by over an inch to get things to fit right without altering an adapter, but altering the adapter was a lot simpler. At least I had the machines to be able to do that.