Hi Guys,

My olds is loosing a bit of cooling water, and i've finally found where is it coming from. I comes from the inside of this pulley with 3 belts (see picture - this is not my car's engine). I can tilt the pulley a bit, which is i guess not a very good thing.
What is in there, what can be wrong? Sealing? Bearing?
May i remove it and have a look, or i will make things worse?

Thanks for your help!
Balage

 

Water pump - easy repair. One sure way to tell if the pump is bad is to grab the top pulley and see if there is any play in it. Get underneath the car and you should be able to see the "wet area" related to the leak on the bottom end of the pump.

 

Okay, i will have a look. Easy repair means - the pump is repairable, or - replace the pump?

 

Replace it and get a sealant that is designed for antifreeze as well. The gasket should come supplied.

 

Yep - the ol' water pump failure.
Get yourself a NEW, not rebuilt pump at your local auto parts store and allocate a weekend to do it.
Might as well flush the cooling system well and change the coolant if over 2 years old.
If the hoses and belts are over 6-7 years old, now would be a good time for replacement while you have it apart.
Here is an idea of what you are getting into, just for reference:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalb...7602930020786/

 

I wish i could get it at the local shop. I live in Hungary, so i have to wait while it gets here. I guess i can use the car until it arrives, right?
I have changed coolant approx. 1 month ago...

 

Rockauto ships internationally if you cannot find one there.
Coolant could be reused if kept clean during drain and storage.
You can continue driving for short distances at some times, but beware the problem can easily get worse. Check it often and carry extra bottles of water. Have a plan in case it gets to leaking too fast.

Your old pump looks original since it is painted! You may want to paint the new one also (but wash off the surface oil applied to it that is used to prevent rust in storage and shipping).

I am curious to see how the impeller looks on the original ones - please post a picture if possible!

 

Rockauto seems to be a good shop, i will try them if my dealer cannot get me one.
Thanks for the help!

Okay, i will post pictures tomorrow. The picture above is just a random pic from the internet.

 

Yes they are - I got a lot from them with no issues.

Only requested if your pump looks original. I am curious to see how an original compares with the new ones.

 

Something about fresh antifreeze will always find a leak that wasn't there before it was put in.

If the shaft and bearing don't wobble, you can drive the car carefully but keep a very close eye on it. What has happened is the shaft seal in the water pump is failing, and it will eventually let enough coolant pass by it to damage the shaft bearing. When that happens you'll have a major coolant leak and could possibly throw the fan into the radiator.

When you get your new water pump, you will see a hole in the underside of the shaft snout. This "weep hole" is there to let you know of seal failure.

Also- since you're having to order internationally, be very specific about which water pump you need so you'll get the correct one. The shaft length is different between airconditioning and non-A/C pumps, and some later pumps do not have a heater hose return nipple due to a production change.

 

To tell the truth i can't tell if it is original, or not. These are the pictures i took in the morning.

 

If that is black paint and not dirt, then no, it is not original. The original water pump was painted gold, because it was already installed when the complete engine was painted.

Some of the others have told you that replacing the water pump is an easy job. I don't want to scare you, but it can be difficult. It is possible that one or more of the bolts will be frozen (rusted) in the block. If you break a bolt, you'll have to drill it out (or use some type of extractor), which will likely require removing the radiator, etc.

Also, If I remember corretly, some of the water pump bolts do not screw into the block; they just screw into the timing cover, which is thin sheet metal. Those bolts must not be over torqued, or you will strip the threads and have to replace the timing cover, which is more of a pain. An Olds chassis service manual would be a good thing to reference, if you've never done this work before.

 

Do NOT use the supplied gasket (unless it's a great one). Just did this replacement on my 71 in February and the gasket supplied with the water pump was thin and useless. Bought a Felpro gasket and to my surprise it was only like $3 at O'Reilly's. One final note of caution, do not strip any of the bolts. One of mine was, which entailed removing radiator, the shroud, etc. in order to fit a drill in there for tapping a helicoil. Also, if you are not sure what pulleys go where, video tape or take photos before beginning. Good luck, job will take a while.

 

You mentioned you could 'tilt' the pulley. Either your bearings in the water pump snout are bad or the shaft that the pulley is attached to is worn. Either way that's not good and I would not drive it, at least fast or far. I actually had a shaft break in half and send the fan into the radiator. Made a perfect hole about 1/2 inch deep in the radiator core. Just a heads up.

 

OVERHEATING CAN CAUSE CRACKED BLOCK OR BLOWN HEAD GASKET, Be carefull.

 

One bit of important advice. DO NOT overtorque the water pump mounting bolts, particularly the 1/4" self tapping screws that go into formed holes in the sheet metal front cover only. Many here have stripped those threads and ended up pulling the front cover to repair it.

 

Thank you guys for the useful informations! I am going to take the car to a good service (they put in my new carb previously), if i can make it with the wrong pump (~40miles)...

 

Finally, i decided to do it myself. I had to move the car away a bit, and 15cm from the cooling water was missing from the radiator...
I was a bit afraid of the rusty screws, but fortunally none of them gave me a headache.

This is where i stand now. The bad boy is removed, you can see it on the first picture. What can i do with the rusty surface of the block (second pic)?





/Still waiting for the new pump (AC Delco) to arrive from the USA/

 

Thats a nasty looking pump for sure. In fact the impeller looks backwards compared to both my old and new ones...

That surface rust can be scraped away with a razor blade, when the gasket residue is scraped off. Be careful to not gouge any of the sealing surfaces. Scotchbrite or 600 sandpaper can be used also to rid the rust.
Cover the coolant holes on the engine before hand to keep the scraped crap out.

Clean well after with alcohol, as well as the sealing flange of the new pump. Use thin amounts of gasket sealer ont he gasket (follow instuctions carefully) and reinstall. Torque to specs in the manual and alternate bolts, tighten a little at a time each time..
This is a job you NEED to have leak free the first time, asi it is a pain to redo it.

 

It was a little weird, and i did not know why. But you are right! That IS backwards.I don't know who put this in, but he was a fool. (This is not the first funny thing i've found on this car)

Thanks, i have to do it right for the first time, i don't have a 2nd chance (show on the 8th of August ).

 

Whoever assembled the pump might have got it backwards - i am surprised it functioned that way!
Anyway, take your time. Clean it up right and carefully, both new pump and engine sides. Do not use too much sealer (I used Permatex #2). Follow their directions carefully.
Torque the bolts in sequence (the ones that thread into the cover only will need less torque.) Let it set 20 minutes and retorque again to allow for any sealant ooze if you did use too much.
Reassemble carefully. Let it sit overnight if you can and add 50-50 coolant and distilled water (or your old coolant since it was new). Fill it up, start car and keep topping it off. When the t-stat opens, level will drop again. Top off again and do for a nice drive. Come back and look for leaks (hopefully none!)
The next day, check coolant level and top off again if needed in the radiator. Fill coolant overflow bottle to cold line.

(If you do not have the bottle, coolant should be about 2" below the radiator cap.)

May the force be with you...

 

Yes Master i will do as you say!

If i run the car with opened radiator cap, will not the coolant run out? I remember once running it like that and it came out. (But maybe the engine was already warm, i don't know.)

 

When it is started cold and let warm up, it will be fine. The level may rise a little as it expands. As soon as you put the cap on it, pressure will build as temp goes up.

A cooling system is under some pressure when warm or more if hot (up to 15psi or cap rating). That is why one should never remove a cap from a hot engine. Let cool to ambient temp, then remove.

 

The radiator fan. Should it run smoothly? It is a bit hard to run, i don't know if it is normal, or not...

 

The fan should turn with some resistance.
Turn it quarter a turn with the side of your pinkie finger. If it leaves a deep impression (or it hurts) then the fan clutch may be locking up.

 

The fan is ok. Some progress, the new water pump has arrived, i painted it, and let it dry for overnight. Hopefully tomorrow i shall be ready with the block too.
Master , between the paint steps i checked the plugs (spark plugs), and they were oily (not sure about oil, but they were wet). Is it possible, that i should adjust the carb to achieve leaner mixture?

 

Pump looks good - now the fan and pulleys will look like they need painting, too...

The plugs show a pretty normal fuel mixture; maybe a tad rich. If you only drive it short distances, it may be normal.
However, they appear like the engine is burning oil. Could be rings or valve guides / seals wearing.
How many miles on it? How many quarts of oil do you add every 3000 miles? If 2 or less or so, I would not worry too much about it.

Post some pics on the block painting progress!

 

Well, i am not goint to paint the block for now. I tried to say i shall rust-free the block under the pump...
To tell the truth i don't know how many miles on it, i bought the car with zero tacho . I also did not look in the engine, there can be worn seals... BUT the car is not burning too much oil, as i did not have to add any since the last oil-change (~2000km before). I don't use it too much (maybe a few 1000km/year), and the engine will have a total rebuild in a few years time...

 

Sounds good - just drive it for now... Might last even longer than you might expect!

Hope that spiffy new pump won't make the whole block look like it needs paint also.
Mine did that when i first installed it, but it soon developed surface rust and blended in with my rusty looking gold engine... I will do the block repaint in a couple years when the A/C gets resto'ed.

 

Make sure you compare the new pump to the old before going to the trouble of installing it. In particular, measure the distance from the front mating surface to the rear mating surface. If they're not the same, your pulleys won't line up. Also make sure the inlet is the same diameter, otherwise you'll need a different lower hose.

 

Today's progress:


Fingers crossed for tomorrow's test!

BlackGold, the pumps seem to be exactly the same size.

 

Looks good so far...

Hope you did this, too!

 

Put alltogether, drove out of the garage, began to rain, so drove back. More tests tomorrow, but looks promising...

 

To finish this thread, today we were visiting an international us car festival. The car runs great!
There was only one other Cutlass from the 68-73s from Switzerland. Actually it was a 442...
I have put some pictures in my gallery also.

 

Very nice! Glad its fixed and you are out cruising!

Heat has me trapped inside...

 

Glad you got it done. Rob does not miss any details. I just wanted to mention you have a very nice looking Cutlass. I am sure it get a lot of attention in Hungary. It would get a lot of attention here.

 

Well, come to think of it, I made no mention to be sure to reinstall the little spacer behind the water pump that holds the whole engine together... It usually falls out during disassembly.

However, since you made it that far already, just save it for the next car.




J/K