Good afternoon. I have recently located a 1972 Cutlass (advertised as a clone) with 442 and W30 markings. I have been told that it is a numbers matching car with a big block and automatic that underwent a frame off, nut and bolt restoration and the pictures that I have seen seems to support the fact that the car did indeed undergo a complete and thorough restoration. I have asked for a VIN to see what I can find but have not heard back as of yet. The car is in Canada, several provinces over from me.
I think I learned on this site that in 1972 the 442 was a trim option and not its own product line and that the W30 option is almost impossible to prove without documentation or a build sheet.
If the car does indeed have a numbers matching engine is there some way of identifying it as an actual W30.
I will appreciate any help or input you may be able to provide. Depending on what you all tell me, as soon as I can get around again after this damn knee replacement I will head out to look at it myself.

oldermobile bob

 

Bob the 1972 W30 is the only one from the original muscle era that is verifiable by vin code. It would have an X.

If its not part of the vin number its not a W30.

 

https://www.classic.com/veh/1972-old...93889-nQlmJN4/

That's a real one, as you can see they made sure to post the vin number prominently.

1972 W30s hold a special status in the Oldsmobile world because of this unique X code. They need no paperwork.

Now all other 442s for 1972 are highly fakeable, so proceed with caution.

 

Yes X marks the spot and 72 for a W-30, therefore also confirming 442. However, hurst olds may also have an X as the fifth digit, (or a U).

If, as seller states, it was an original 455, U represents an automatic, and a V would be an original four-speed car.

U or V do not denote the 442 option, that would require W-29 on paperwork, but many would agree a big block is next best thing in ‘72, when one could walk into their nearest dealer and drive home with a 350 2 barrel single exhaust 442.

 

Two conditions:
A. Must have "X" in the vin.
B. The vin derivative on the engine MUST match the Vehicle Identification Number.
Fyi: just because the vin has "X" doesn't make the car a W-30 unless the engines vin derivative matches.
Fyi#2: I hope that I don't regret contributing to this thread.... 😊

 

As others have said:

1. If X in vin and engine and trans are matching derivatives, numbers matching W-30
2. If X in vin and powertrain does not match, then a much lesser value car that was once a W-30.
3. If U or V in vin, and powertrain matching, then original big block car, maybe not 442.
4. If some other digit in vin, then it's basically Cutlass value.

So, get vin, and we go from there. Smart money is on a K 350 4 barrel car made to look like a W-30.

There was one guy that was so embarrassed by his clone he made sure to cover the vin with the car show placard, lol.

 

TLDR: Get the VIN. The X denoting W-30 should be in the fifth position.

Let us know what you find.

 

I got the VIN number and it decodes as a 1972 Cutlass hardtop coupe with a 455 4 barrel carb and dual exhaust manufactured in Fremont, CA.

3G87U2Z

The car was identified as a clone and the VIN confirms that the W30 badging is inaccurate but I am wondering if there is anyway to see if it may be a 442. The car has the rally pak gauges (including Tick Tock tach), 12 bolt diff, sway bars front and back, exhaust notched bumpers and trumpet exhaust tips. I know these items are all available as aftermarket and their presence proves nothing.

Any ideas?

 

Absent paperwork, I got nothing, at least nothing definitive. But a U code Cutlass ain't too shabby, as long as you don't pay 4-4-2 money for it.

 

3G787U2Z is Olds Cutlass 2dr hardtop 250 hp automatic trans dual exhaust 455, 1972, Fremont.

So, it is, at the very least, a U code Cutlass. If the powertrain matches, it is the powertrain of what a big block 442 would have had. One should buy with confidence based on U code numbers matching. Now, for the 442 stuff, see this:




W39 is the Hurst floor shifter. B84 is granny grocery anti ding side moldings, Y70 is the Cutlass paint stripe, and J50 is 4 wheel drum power brakes and L75 is the U code 455, which this car has. In other words, no door ding strips, no Cutlass stripe, no power drums. This car either has 4 wheel manual drums, or some form of disc brakes.

Y73 is the 442 paint stripe, you need that, and FE2 is the suspension package, which is this




That's springs, shocks, stabi bars front and back, and boxed rear control arms. Look for stuff that has been there a while, like light rust, and GM correct bolts. You can post pictures and we can help.


And here's the whole page

 

^^^ Unfortunately, even if it's legit, much of the 4-4-2 equipment has likely been swapped out over the course of the last 53 years, making authenticating one solely on the basis of its equipment something of a mug's game.

As Joe P. frequently says: "Necessary but not sufficient" -- meaning that assuming the car is correctly restored, all that stuff has to be there, but still doesn’t prove anything.

 

You gotta have the glow, Bruce Leeroy!

One can generally tell if something is original or not. All bets are off when it is restored. The man might need a broadcast sheet.

 

Its a fake, through and through. But as has been pointed out a U code Cutlass is a very nice car. And its quicker and more powerful than most 1972 442s were.

1972 442 pecking order by horsepower.

160hp
175hp
180hp
200hp
250hp (U code)
270hp (V code)
300hp (X code)

If you want a real 442 that needs no paperwork 1968-1971 and 1972 X code. That's it as far as 2nd generation.

All other hp variants outside of an X code for 1972, can and did come in the basic Cutlass. For all intents and purposes the 442 as was created in 1964 all but died after 1971. Save for the X code. It was the last hurrah. 442s origin staple was a unique to the option or model, engine. What the numbers meant or were adapted to mean meant nothing. The engine was everything.

 

As usual, I am impressed with the knowledge that I continue to find on this site.
I have believed that the car is almost certainly a fake from the first time that I saw the picture of the engine compartment and thought that the red inner fender liners looked too bright and too new. I remember that the fender liners in the 1970 W30 that I owned in 1976 were not that bright.
The car is in beautiful condition inside and out including underneath, the video that I saw of it under hard acceleration was impressive.
Is there something wrong with me for thinking that the only thing that I have to do to this beautiful car, if I buy it is to remove the 442 and W30 badging?

 

Your gut was absolutely correct especially because 1972 W30s did not come with red fender liners.

"1972 was the only year since 1966 in which the W-30 did not come with red inner fender liners; they are black." Hot Rod Magazine July 11 2014. By way of Bob Gerometta, (our go-to Oldsmobile expert and guiding light behind the hugely informative website Wild About Cars (www.wildaboutcarsonline.com),)

If you wish, scroll down to '72 W-30 Spotter's Guide of https://www.hotrod.com/features/1972...ansing-legacy/

And don't be fooled by the potential, "However, the first 10 '72 W-30s produced (in late 1971) supposedly came with red fender liners. At one time this was verified by Helen Early, the Olds History Center curator, who has since passed away."

I would not be swayed by the exception rather than the rule on such a significant vehicle and or potential purchase. But again the presence of the X in the vin code renders all of this moot.

 

Not at all, as long as you apply BangScreech4-4-2s methodology. "don't pay 4-4-2 money for it." Offer Cutlass money not 442 money... Otherwise you are willingly being taken advantage of.

There is a $50,000 difference in peak value between a 1972 Cutlass with 455 and a 1972 W30 442. According to JD Power and Associates.

 

And, expect to not get the car for Cutlass money. Expect the seller to fake being offended and accuse you of being a shyster for noticing his shyster tactics. Could be, you get a fair deal. Could be, he won't sell it for that low. Be ready and able to walk.

Also, it would behoove you to learn how to determine correct codes on engine, trans, rear end, carburetor, distributor, alternator, radiator, starter. We can help, if you get good pictures.

 

In addition to the great information shared by the many experts here (I am merely under their tutelage), there is a chance - if the car was originally sold in Canada - that Canadian documentation might be available, which is typically much better than what’s available for Oldsmobiles sold south of the provinces.

If purchased as a big block Cutlass, that seems fair and documented, if engine vin derivative matches vehicle vin. If seller wants 442 money, it would be prudent to seek out or be provided W-29 proof.

 

^^^ Holy cow, he's absolutely right! I forgot that the car is in Canada. Even though it has been debunked as a W-30, if that car was actually originally built or sold in Canada you can still verify its possible 4-4-2 status by ordering a report from GM Vintage Vehicle Services
(https://www.vintagevehicleservices.com). In any case, it'll tell you what you have and how it was originally ordered. For Canadian cars this is ironclad documentation.

Of course for bargaining purposes, you may want to hold off on that until after you make a deal.

 

Only if they bother you, but remember that the mounting holes in your fenders and trunklid won't match Cutlass emblems and you'll then need to address those. Shame to have to repaint that much to remove the small logos.

 

I can see removing the W-30 badges as it is demonstrably not one of those, but might as well look into possible W-29 status before you get too carried away. I agree it would be a shame to mess up the paint if it's nice.