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The factory brochure for 71 says no 455 is avail in a cutlass exc for 442........does anyone know of any documented 71 cars that prove otherwise? I'm talking a 455-4.
true - but being it is an hour away it is a bit far to drive just to verify the stamp (assuming I could see it, the car also has AC so you have the PS pump and maybe the alternator both on that side. I imagine a factory 455 car would also have a TH400 vs 350 so the stamp on that would likely prove the installed engine wasn't a 455 (if it was the factory installed tranny). going to give them a call now just for the heck of it.
I imagine a factory 455 car would also have a TH400 vs 350 so the stamp on that would likely prove the installed engine wasn't a 455 (if it was the factory installed tranny). going to give them a call now just for the heck of it.
ok.......literally just hung up 10 secs ago with him. He says the engine matches (his words, not mine) and it has all the SX options even though it is an S. He does not have any docs and took a quick look around but found no sheet (of course, it's a Lansing car) and he does not have the sticker. I will kick it around a bit, might take a swing up there tomorrow if I'm feeling ambitious after work. If I do I will let you guys know what I find out.
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Originally Posted by mdh157
He says the engine matches (his words, not mine) and it has all the SX options even though it is an S.
I doubt he has all the SX options, or it would be an SX. Easy way to get the vin derivative on the engine - take a picture with your cell phone. It's small enough to put down in that space and take a picture. The transmission pan on the TH400 is different than a TH350. You can see this easily by looking under the car.
He says the engine matches (his words, not mine) and it has all the SX options even though it is an S.
Well, in 1971, "all the SX options" came under RPO Y79 and included the L-32 455 4bbl motor, the cutout back bumper, and the SX emblems on the fenders, period. Even the FE2 suspension was separate. The TH400 was a mandatory additional option.
Easy way to get the vin derivative on the engine - take a picture with your cell phone. It's small enough to put down in that space and take a picture. The transmission pan on the TH400 is different than a TH350. You can see this easily by looking under the car.
Yes but the TH400 has to be matching # or no proof it came with the car.......the more i think abt it the more I'm leaning toward saving the gas.
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
I understand your comment. But IF the engine VIN derivative somehow matched the car, it is reasonable to think that a TH400 bolted to it would also have the right coding.
Ask the seller to send you a picture of the VIN derivative. He should know where to look and take the picture IF he knows what he's talking about. Also ask for a picture showing the trans pan, that will identify whether it's a TH400 or not. You know that the 455 will bolt up to a TH350, right?
From talking to him it seems he isn't very well versed in the car, said a relative checked the car out (that is where he got the info he was relaying to me). He is charging a price as if the car was an SX but he has posted or said nothing that backs up the assertion. The distance is just far enough for me to say meh instead of driving up there. I also wonder if the car is worth what he wants even if it was a # matching car.
Last edited by mdh157; June 2nd, 2016 at 01:53 PM.
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Let's end the confusion
Whoa! Lets take a step back here. Your original thread topic says Cutlass S engine availability and I think it's been established that the 455 wasn't an option for that year. Now you're describing features that are specifically Cutlass Supreme related. You do know the difference between the Cutlass S and Cutlass Supreme right? Many sellers don't and they advertise Cutlass Supreme's (CS model) as Cutlass S. The only 1970 and 1971 Cutlass Supreme's that came with 455's were the W45 (hurst olds - 70, and Y79 SX models - both years.
So which of these 2 models are you asking about, and what is the seller offering?
The Cutlass S is the fastback (model 3677, 3687)
The Cutlass Supreme is the notchback (models 4257/4267)
Joe is correct, i'm quoting the seller. The car is advert as an S and the VIN says it is an S but he claims it has a 455 and is factory original. That's where the sticking point is. The car also has a ram air hood, hood pins, boxed control arms, factory tach and r bumper cutouts, all of which the seller believes to be original. (or maybe he doesn't believe it and is just trying to pull the wool over my eyes!)
W25 hood and FE2 suspension with boxed arms were factory options on the Cutlass S. The tach only came as part of the Rally Pac with the gauges as well - if it's tach only, someone put that in. The cutout bumper was only factory installed on the 442 and the SX in the 1971 model year, period.
Makes sense, that all jives with the factory literature. It is quite obvious someone added the cutout bumper and the 455 if that is indeed what is in the car. Not worth the ride to look at it, my car search will have to continue.
[QUOTE=Allan R;924908]
The only 1970 and 1971 Cutlass Supreme's that came with 455's were the W45 (hurst olds - 70, and Y79 SX models - both years.
Sorry Allan but this information is incorrect. 455 in a Supreme did not mandate the SX option in 1970. You forgot about the 455 2bbl that was an option in the Cutlass Supreme in 1970. My very 1st Olds was so equipped. And as you know there is no such thing as a 1970 HO.
Last edited by oldsmobiledave; June 2nd, 2016 at 09:22 PM.
Guys, my curiosity got the best of me and I went to see the car yesterday. Could not get a clear pic of the VIN on either eng or trans but it is a 455/TH400. VIN deriv on engine is 137580 (or ?, not sure of the last digit), could not see and other letters/numbers. Last 6 of the VIN is 130519. Also noticed something else that has me scratching my head........last 6 of VIN makes it sound like a car made in maybe late Sept or so but the tag says 1st week of January....pic attached. Is the Lansing body # and build date listed with the seq # or am I wrong? Do they VIN sequence for all Lansing bodies or specifically for each Model/body style? Also has a tach but no gauges, someone obviously worked on this thing a long time ago and made changes. It even has plastic inner fenders but they are black.
The search continues............guess I am better off as I prefer a 4 spd car anyway. There is a 71 4 spd coupe I found but the price is too high for the cond IMO.
Last edited by mdh157; June 19th, 2016 at 10:23 AM.
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Originally Posted by mdh157
Guys, my curiosity got the best of me and I went to see the car yesterday. Could not get a clear pic of the VIN on either eng or trans but it is a 455/TH400. VIN deriv on engine is 137580 (or ?, not sure of the last digit), could not see and other letters/numbers. Last 6 of the VIN is 130519.
If those numbers you're quoting are accurate, the engine is not the one the car was built with. Period. Someone has done an engine swap. Find out what the first 3 numbers/letter are on the block. Should start out with a 3()()137580. The first bracket will tell you the year, the second will tell you the factory.
Originally Posted by mdh157
Also noticed something else that has me scratching my head........last 6 of VIN makes it sound like a car made in maybe late Sept or so but the tag says 1st week of January....pic attached. Is the Lansing body # and build date listed with the seq # or am I wrong? Do they VIN sequence for all Lansing bodies or specifically for each Model/body style?
Lansing had 2 major production areas - Fisher Body Works (where the shell was built) and the Final Assembly Line (where the car was born and rolled into the world). The VIN sequence is related to the Final production line, the cowl tag indicates only when the shell started being built. Sometimes very difficult to match the VIN sequence to the cowl tag just based on numbering. The VIN sequencing at Lansing for 71 was for all models rolling down the line. So you might have several Cutlass models, Deltas, Ninety Eights sequenced the same day. The last 6 would be numerically sequenced to that production. Production numbers start at 100001. According to stats from Journey with Olds, there were only 7589 442's built in 71, including W30's. Don't forget also that in 1970, the UAW went on strike for 67 days, which crippled production for 71 model years and created delays getting the lines back into production.
Originally Posted by mdh157
Also has a tach but no gauges, someone obviously worked on this thing a long time ago and made changes. It even has plastic inner fenders but they are black.
Unless the car was a W30 (which Lansing was the only W30 factory), it will have black fender liners. Only the W30's got red fender liners.
June 1st, 2016, 07:39 PM
